Saved???

filosofer · Mar 5, 2002

When a verse says "WILL be saved" that is future tense - not already protected but, will be protected.

So what do you do with Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been, and are still being, saved" In Greek that is a perfect participle (meaning it happened in the past and is still effective in the present). This does not support OSAS.

Likewise 1 John 5:13 - does not support OSAS.

ZoneChaos · Mar 5, 2002

So what do you do with Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been, and are still being, saved" In Greek that is a perfect participle (meaning it happened in the past and is still effective in the present). This does not support OSAS.

Likewise 1 John 5:13 - does not support OSAS.

What translation are you using?

In the KJV: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:"

In that first part, where you have "you have been, and are still being, saved", I have "are ye saved".

filosofer · Mar 5, 2002

Ah, 'tis my own translation to bring out the sense of the perfect. The "present" tense in translation is valid, as long as it is understood not to be only a present tense. It is a past event with present implications.

edjones · Mar 7, 2002

The believer(saved) must remember that since Christ has bought him he is no longer his own. He is not to do what he desires with his body but what his Owner desires. Every Christian is the steward of his own body and God will judge him according to the works he performs in it. It is God's will that he glorify his redeemer with a holy and obedient life (1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 6:19-20).

1 John 5
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

ZoneChaos · Mar 7, 2002

Originally posted by filosofer
Ah, 'tis my own translation to bring out the sense of the perfect. The "present" tense in translation is valid, as long as it is understood not to be only a present tense. It is a past event with present implications.

But why do you feel youm need to re-translate it? How do you arrive at your end result?

I see no evidince to think that it is referring to a "present" tense of any kind.

What Biblical backing do you have that warrants the cange?

Ben johnson · Mar 7, 2002

Originally posted by edjones
The believer(saved) must remember that since Christ has bought him he is no longer his own. He is not to do what he desires with his body but what his Owner desires. Every Christian is the steward of his own body and God will judge him according to the works he performs in it. It is God's will that he glorify his redeemer with a holy and obedient life (1 Corinthians 3:11-15, 6:19-20).

Hello, Ed! The question becomes, "what if the believer does not remember that he no longer is his own?" If we have a choice in what we do (as you say---we are not to do what we desire, but what our Owner desires {well said, btw!}), then why is it a stretch to contend that "salvation is abiding in Him"? (With the option to not abide in Him and therefore not abide in salvation?)

Speaking of "not remembering", that is almost word-for-word from Peter, 2:1:9 (context) "For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins". Is there any other "purification from sins" but salvation? What if one first believes, then disbelieves, forgetting former purification of sins? (Please read verses 3-11, notice how the EISODOS-ENTRANCE/GATE of Heaven will be provided IN THIS WAY, indicating not in any other way...)

hey, I want a copy!!! Bet our conclusions won't be the same, but I'll do my best to keep an open mind.

Click to expand...

Hey, Louis---I don't have your email address---email me, and I'll forward a copy to you. Please specify if you want email-text or an attached Word file. qjohnson@hotmail.com

TRUTH · Mar 8, 2002

1 Cor 9:27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should 'BECOME DISQUALIFIED'

If you are eternally saved now - how could you become disqualified??

:scratch:

edjones · Mar 8, 2002

1 Cor 9
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Ben johnson · Mar 8, 2002

If you are eternally saved now - how could you become disqualified??

Touche'!

edjones · Mar 8, 2002

I don't!

I couldn't be unsaved if my life depended on it!
All glory and honor to my saviour THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!

TRUTH · Mar 10, 2002

And so humble . . .

edjones · Mar 11, 2002

Originally posted by edjones
I don't!

I couldn't be unsaved if my life depended on it!
All glory and honor to my saviour THE LORD JESUS CHRIST!

Its all because of HIM!
Praise the Lamb of God, The Lord Jesus Christ!

Ben johnson · Mar 11, 2002

Likewise 1 John 5:13 - does not support OSAS.

Combine 1Jn5:12 with 2Jn1:8-9, and I cannot see how "OSAS" can persist...

LouisBooth · Mar 11, 2002

"Combine 1Jn5:12 with 2Jn1:8-9, and I cannot see how "OSAS" can persist"

umm...easy, that doesnt say you aren't once saved always saved.

If you read the whole book it points out that you can't loose your salvation. What the book is dealing with is those that call themselves christians that are not as indicated by 1john1:7

edjones · Mar 11, 2002

Maybe you need to:

Psalm 34:8
O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

LouisBooth · Mar 11, 2002

ed, it would be good if you said who you are addressing

I have tasted of the LORD. I'm saved, now and forever.

edjones · Mar 11, 2002

Originally posted by edjones
Maybe you need to:

Psalm 34:8
O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in him.

Psalm 107:2
Let the redeemed of the LORD say so,

If your phone is ringing...........

TRUTH · Mar 13, 2002

Psa 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.

Are we talking about the same G-d or are you just picking out the good stuff? :scratch:

edjones · Mar 13, 2002

"For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." (Heb. 10:14)

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin." (Rom. 4:5-8)

Have you ever heard the expression "Nobody's perfect?" That isn't true. In God's eyes, the SOULS of all His saints ARE perfect, because they have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation. Jesus shed His sinless blood to pay for my sins. He OFFERED Himself as a PAYMENT for my sin. He paid my sin debt because I couldn't. By receiving Him as my Savior, I am also receiving the fact that He has PAID for my sins and that I can now REST in His finished work, because my sins are GONE! My soul (not my flesh) has been made PERFECT through the completed Blood Atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ, and I KNOW I'm going to Heaven!

Ben johnson · Mar 14, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Combine 1Jn5:12 with 2Jn1:8-9, and I cannot see how "OSAS" can persist"

umm...easy, that doesnt say you aren't once saved always saved. If you read the whole book it points out that you can't loose your salvation. What the book is dealing with is those that call themselves christians that are not as indicated by 1john1:7

Which book? 2John? Do you believe that "anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teachings of Christ", is referring to unsaved people?

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