Hello All,
This would be pretty true for what I have been battling. What Quaffer says.
it becomes more like practicing witchcraft. . .which is what God compared rebellion to in 1 Samuel 15:22.
about what is happening in the church I left. 10 Months of asking and seeking God's truth has revealed many things that are unsettling.
I do believe - and maybe I did not make myslef clear about it - that you can pray in the Spirit at your own will, when speaking to God and yourself. I hope you all are not under the assumption I think private tongues is what I am refering to in this situation.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 clearly says when it's "public" - in the church - someone should be an interpretur. If you have the gifts also of interpretation, that is awesome. It's a gift the Holy Spirit also chooses to give to some.
But I have to agree with Paul in 1 Corinthians 14:2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue, does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; but he utters mysteries with his spirit. (3) But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. (4) He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the Church." -
Which is what we are called to do with these gifts - For His Glory for the good of the church.
Verse 5 continues "I would like everyone of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified."
That is where I am stating the gift of tongues is indeed important but Paul makes it clear it's not the most important gift.
Verse 6 Continues with (6) Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?"
Quaffer states and I don't challenge or doubt your ability to pray and interpret what God is speaking, that the manifestation of answers or words of knowledge were present to the one being prayed for. If this had been present in the place I left, I would have not begun to seek out what was right and wrong according to God.
Verse 7 and 8 "EVen in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes. (8) Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle?"
Paul compares this with us in verse 9 "So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will be just speaking into the air."
Noting already what is said about interpreturs, verse 10 explains that there are many languages but if someone present does not understand he is a foreigner. He also notes that since we are eager to have Spiritual gifts try and excel in gifts that build up the church.
I am not refering to private tongues, but public. If there is not someone who is interpreting, then it serves no purpose to me or others who can not interpret what is being said. This does no good for the body of Christ. Which is the reason the gifts are given to some - according to His desire who should recieve which gift, yet we are all empowered with a unique gift each and it's by the same Spirit.
When this church would exhibit the gifts of tongues, (not when someone was praying to God privately in the congregation,) no interpretation was ever made. not even by the Pastor.
So as Paul continues, in Verses 13 through 17 it does not edify others with the manifestation of tongues in this Chuch.
13 "For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. (14) For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. (15) So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. (16) If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say 'AMEN' to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? (17) You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified."
How can someone who does not have the gift of tongues or gift of interpretation of tongues understand what is being said. He doesn't.
And scripture states that some are given this gift and some are given another gift. 1 Corinthians 12 4-11 - it's clearly stated 'for to one' and 'to another' - this does not mean the Holy Spirit gives everyone the same unique gift. Sure - some people do have more than one gift, but the Holy SPirit decides this and who will recieve what. "But all these things worketh that one and the selfsame spirit, dividing every man severally as He will." These gifts are divided among believers.
I believe people can all recieve the gifts of tongues (for private tongues), but not all are called to use them publically. It's not as we want, it's as HE will. Quaffer you appear to be blessed abundantly as others here with this gift of tongues to edify the church for God's glory. Amen - but not all have this gift. Some have prophecy, some have discerning of spirits, etc... I do believe we all have these gifts in some respects, but charisma means by His Holy Grace - therefore some are blessed more abundantly in one or more gifts than other gifts. and it should be used for God's will .. and if not used for Him it would lead to sin's of ommision.
James 3:5-8 - What I have always understood it to mean, how can someone be filled with the spitit while they bless God yet at the same time curse men. A good tree can not bear bad fruit and a bad tree will not bear good fruit.
Luke 6:45 "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh."
There is no love nor any fruits of the spirit manifested in this place I left.
2Peter 2:17 "These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever"
You can not learn anything from a dry well, and certainly when not when it mocks the people eager to learn God's ways. False teachings mocks the Lord. It's like the spirit of Baalam - who used God as a front for personal gain. This spirit is common in today's church. People use Christianity for presonal gain.
The Scripture tells us to seek the truth and test all spirits. I am not challenging anyone here on what the Holy Spirit has bestowed generously upon them. I have and am truly enjoying this debate in good fellowship and I pray I have not offended anyone. Forgive me if I have.
When someone who is lacking in fruit - and then suddenly becomes empowered with tongues and it is scriptuarally lacking it becomes a matter of the gift of discernment and God. I would prefer the truth and be away from such things. Of course I pray for these people, but it's not from God.
It's amazing how many people have been led to deception by not knowing God's Word.
I agree with Hollypop about tongues being from the flesh if God's Spirit is not present or felt. I can not feel what these people did, or do. But after searching I have learned alot more than I thought I could about false tongues, false worship, false teachers and teachings. Your posts are all great!
I am blessed to have found this forum for interaction with other believers!
Yes I believe we are all being conformed and progressively being sanctified as we journey along in this world until pure and perfect sanctifcation is met as glorification when we meet our Father face to face.
I just feel compelled to discuss false tongues as a reality that is currently being used in churches today. If someone is praying over you with out true interpretation from His Holy Spirit, who knows what blessings or cursings are being said? The church I am in currently is spirit filled and the gifts of tongues and intrepretation is present as well as private tongues. It's an awesome gift the church would be missing if it were not present, but if it's not from God, it's either demonic or flesh.
God's blessings and joy. I guess we are neighbors almost Hollypop, Mobile is not that far away!
I hope I am done editing all my mistakes now, Peace and Love and Joy.
Bless God always