Fellowship...a struggle?

Sleepyd · Jun 28, 2003

I know Christianity is about building up the body of christ and encouraging other people, being around other people, and showing love and kindness to everyone - Christian or not. Today I went to a Christian party, and it was wonderful - in the sun, played beach sports and stayed around for ages eating bar-be-q'd stuff and staying until dark.

I come back from these socials and I find that these are some of my lowest and most self destructive times. They highlight my personality flaws, and they concentrate my mind on me - and I hate me, I really do, and always have done - and I am sure I can't be rid of that

. Whenever someone talks about grace and God loving me, it's something I just can't deal with, and I look away and can't take it from the person speaking. Whenever someone says 'you're saved' I cant believe it

I can preech the fact of grace to others, and I can see why someone's life is worth living with a passion, but I cant see it for myself. Fellowship is put in place so that we can encourage each other, but I find that I go away depressed because groups of Christians are very cleeky, and I'm a quiet person and most Christians are soooo full of life and charasmatic because they understand grace, and they understand they are saved because they have been chosen, and they're so filled with that understanding and its implications - I can only assume of course

. My stupid non-understadning mind-set makes me hard to deal with, and conversationis just a bit uneasy because I'm quite self-contained and down to earth. I struggle with SI when I get back from these things...it's almost like craving for a cigarette soo difficult. Even whn I went out with someone I found it was worse than ever bits of glass, burns etc. soo bad I know, but it's an addiction and its an act that further seperates me from others, and I like that - it hurts my head less not to come to terms with these things, and it empathises a great deal with how much I think of myself. So...fellowship with Christians I find hard...and because I recognise Sin and it makes me sad I also get incredibly sad when I spend time with non-christians - even watching an episode of friends I see them being fickle, dealing with things in a selfish way etc. And ok, I don't belong to the kingdom of man and therefore I should be not affected by it - but I have to live in this cold uncaring society of materialism. How did people in here get to grips with grace, how do you people deal with non-christian social situations? Does anyone else think they're just alone in their church? Does being a anti-fellowship person make me lesser Christian? :help:

This all sounds like a whining teen, but I'm 21 and should know better. Sorry.

happy · Jun 28, 2003

Hey, don't feel bad. I feel the same way. I have a hard time fellowshipping with other christians. I even feel intimidated by them even though I am one myself. It's like I am caught in the middle, I know that I should hang out with christians for edification, encouragement and stuff like that but I just can't seem to get the nerve to but then I think that I really don't want to hang out with non-believers because I will get dragged back down. I understand what you are going thru.

Vollkommen Warrior · Jun 28, 2003

I prefer to hang out with you folks. I am 33 now and done the party scene, been both a nerd long long ago and cool way longer than that. Now I try to accept anyone no matter what their stage. When I find folks so far behind it is difficult but I am pretty secure in who I am now so if I show signs of non-participation in crude or rude or lower behavior and they don't pick up on it, I try to tactfully help them or move away. If on rare occasion I find myself chiming in, I know it is time to get away. It's kind of like howard stern types who say that our true instincts are being attracted to evil and inappropriate content and lude behavior. This is satans world and our physical bodies crave this, I am not denying that. However, the truely spiritual will RISE ABOVE that behavior even though it is denying the physical, im-moral or natural earthly behavior. Does this help at all? I hope so but I did go into a bit of a rant there, lol. Take care and give yourself a little slack, the fact you are trying is super!

Blessed-one · Jun 29, 2003

Sleepyd said:
I come back from these socials and I find that these are some of my lowest and most self destructive times. They highlight my personality flaws, and they concentrate my mind on me - and I hate me, I really do, and always have done - and I am sure I can't be rid of that . Whenever someone talks about grace and God loving me, it's something I just can't deal with, and I look away and can't take it from the person speaking.

first of all, everyone has flaws in their characters, which is why the Holy Spirit helps us to change, and molds us closer to the image of Christ (check the fruits of the holy spirit), so don't feel down about that! when God puts something to mind, He'll make it happen.

but I find that I go away depressed because groups of Christians are very cleeky, and I'm a quiet person and most Christians are soooo full of life and charasmatic because they understand grace, and they understand they are saved because they have been chosen, and they're so filled with that understanding and its implications - I can only assume of course . My stupid non-understadning mind-set makes me hard to deal with, and conversationis just a bit uneasy because I'm quite self-contained and down to earth.

i assure you, being "full of life" is not an essential point in making a christian.. christian. What do you mean by that expression? some christians are so into the ministries and things, but in reality, their spiritual walk is only starting. and what's bad with being quiet? God creates people with different personality, God gave you this personality, and what He makes has to be good unless we conrupt it. If everyone was the same, the world may just be a bit dull. I think you need to accept yourself, that may then help your first step in stepping out and building relationship with others.

but I have to live in this cold uncaring society of materialism. How did people in here get to grips with grace, how do you people deal with non-christian social situations?

grace... now grace is a gift from God, so whenever we sin, we ask God for forgiveness, and God, through Jesus's blood (and grace) will forgive us. But grace doesn't give us a license to sin again and again. I don't understand.... which part of grace are you having difficulties with?

um... i find it ok mixing with non-christians, but there're things that i don't agree with them, keep in mind that God intends for us to go out and show others His light and preach His word though, which means that we have to mix with non-christians (but not to the point that it weakens our faith!) Learning to live among non-christians is part of the road we've to walk. When i don't agree with them, i just ignore them which isn't that difficult since i'm a quiet person too, or i'll tell them what i think, of course, that depends on what types of friends you have, but don't let your friends intimidate you!

Does anyone else think they're just alone in their church? Does being a anti-fellowship person make me lesser Christian?

by all means, of course not! but... christians are supposed to love and support each other. I've felt uncomfortable around the christians at church for quite a while, though for a different reason, my opinion is, we should feel comfortable around each other, because only then can we build a better relationship (and we are brothers and sisters in Christ), but how do we achieve this? prayers would be the first thing to do. Patience, acceptance (in self as well as others), endurance..... forgiveness and love.

i'm sure one day you'll come to enjoy the fellowship with your fellow brothers and sisters.

Galadriel · Jul 5, 2003

Hey,
I wanted to say, I TOTALLY hear you! I am 20, quiet and shy, and I know very well what you mean about how the other Christians seem so "full of life". Oh yes, my best friend was just this way, so bouncy and alive and "praise the Lord!" (not that there is anything wrong with that.) I just would see her and her youth group friends all energetic and all for Jesus, seeming so confident in what they believe, and here's me, quiet, not a jump up and shout person, more withdrawn, with questions and doubts. So it was hard sometimes. I'd be struggling with things, and she would be so chipper. Yea, I hear ya sista! I have a hard time as well, I get this feeling, at least around my friend, that she (though we are both Christians) has something that I don't. It is hard for me as well.

JohnR7 · Jul 6, 2003

Sleepyd said:
Does being a anti-fellowship person make me lesser Christian?

Our most important fellowship is with God. I do beleive in a two fold atonement. Jesus died to reconcil us with the father, but also to reconcil us with each other. But what some people call christian fellowship is just flesh, flesh, flesh. It is not in the spirit of truth and in love. We are to be joined in one mind and one accord.

But God is doing a work to transform us into the people He wants us to be. To Him is the praise, the honor and the glory. All we have to do is put our feet in the Jesus foot steps.

wblastyn · Jul 7, 2003

Galadriel said:
Hey,
I wanted to say, I TOTALLY hear you! I am 20, quiet and shy, and I know very well what you mean about how the other Christians seem so "full of life". Oh yes, my best friend was just this way, so bouncy and alive and "praise the Lord!" (not that there is anything wrong with that.) I just would see her and her youth group friends all energetic and all for Jesus, seeming so confident in what they believe, and here's me, quiet, not a jump up and shout person, more withdrawn, with questions and doubts. So it was hard sometimes. I'd be struggling with things, and she would be so chipper. Yea, I hear ya sista! I have a hard time as well, I get this feeling, at least around my friend, that she (though we are both Christians) has something that I don't. It is hard for me as well.

I feel the same. I haven't been to church in a long while because people would come over and start talking to me, asking me to help out in the youth group, etc and I hate people I don't know very well talking to me because I get really nervous.

BigToe · Jul 8, 2003

oh, i get ill to my stomach when i meet new people. and i am quite and reserved. and i would love to be someone who danced around and shouts for joy all the time. but i can't do it, i am too shy. and thats ok, because God made me that way. God loves each of us because he created each of us. he has a special plan for each person and only for that person. So some may been to be more on the quiet side to accomplish his goal for their lives.

God wants us to know we are saved, paul even writes saying that he tells us these things so that we can be sure of our salvation. i am praying for you hun and if you ever need to talk, feel free to pm me anytime.

on a side note, where in the uk are you from? and will you marry me? hehe (i would love to live there!)

Sleepyd · Jul 9, 2003

hehe, I'm from London, Wimbledon in fact - where the tennis is played! I want to move to the countryside though - had enough of the city life - It's weird how cities have the largest population densities but can be the loneliest places on Earth. I'm thinking possibly Ireland in a home with a few cats and miles of countryside to walk. It's an odd question to ask me to marry you - I stated that I'm terrible with people!

The latest fellowship struggle I face is that my quiet and reserved family church doesn't progress me in my faith via their teaching every week, and they have quite liberal views that I don't agree with. BUT if I go to a church that emphasises rich teaching, the style of worship is normally very extravert - something I simply can't cope with. I feel it in some ways, but I like the dignity of a one-ness with God in a peaceful style of worship. I simply can't concentrate when you don't know what's going to happen next in the more charismatic churches around here! BUT I'm continuing in my quest for a happy medium! - wish me luck.

I'm also trying to understand grace, the most difficult part is coming to understand that even when I've had the worst of days, He still values me - I'd simply give up! I'm also a very sceptical person, so sometimes I can get very conscious and scared of the atheistic views of God banded around in books and society, my mind needs academic concentration on the case for God which is a real shame on one hand because I struggle through people's objections to Christianity, and my mind is constantly questioning itself again and again. On the other hand it means I can be a great tool of evangelism if I can be sure from my head to my toe of the case for Christ in the face of opposition to it.

Thanks for the responses - I'm happy that I'm not alone when I feel that I somewhat dampen the high spirits in the groups that I have been in.

I'd like to say that if you're very kind and bubbly, I dont think you're wrong at all - in fact you're very lucky. It's me that always says to myself 'Woe you suck at this fellowship stuff look at how you dont mix in the same way' and it's how I feel and respond to your best efforts - hopelessly, and I make you guys a bit uneasy! I'm not really extrovert c'os I dont feel that I deserve happiness that you show, very aware of my being and its sin contained within

Galadriel · Jul 9, 2003

Hey there Sleepyd!
Wow!! Wimbledon!! COOL! I have been following the matches to a degree, here in the US of A. Lol. Can I come for a visit? Ireland sounds nice as well, I would like to visit both places.

Anyways... :o I know what you mean about the churches. The quieter laid back churches (Such as the one I go to) can be not as rich in teaching, and the ones that are are much more the "raise your hands in the air and wave 'em around like ya don't care and get all into it!" Yes, I have this same dilemma as well.

I know what you mean as well about when people argue against Christianity, and then I get thinking.."hey, that is a good question...hmm..?" and my mind spins off, but yeah, I have to be careful with that as well. Sometimes on this board that happens. But remember, just because you aren't sure of an answer, does not mean that there isn't one. My aunt told me that when I told her how I get conflicted and doubting sometimes.

It seems we are much alike, and have somewhat similar struggles. I too can sometimes feel a bit envious of those who are uninhibited and can just say whatever and feel very comfortable. But I agree that God doesn't make us all the same. One thing that really bugs me though about being quieter, is that people think that you don't have anything to you, and want to remake you in their way, you know, kinda like take you over, and impose themselves upon you, simply because they assume that if you are quiet, you don't have much of an identity. THAT bugs me!!! It is NOT true about us at all! I feel like saying "Just let me be me, and stop trying to make me into what I am not!"

Do you ever feel this way as well?

Sleepyd · Jul 9, 2003

Galadriel said:
Hey there Sleepyd!
Wow!! Wimbledon!! COOL! I have been following the matches to a degree, here in the US of A. Lol. Can I come for a visit? Ireland sounds nice as well, I would like to visit both places.

hehe, the latter of the two is far more inspiring - I realish the thought of South Ireland far more than the South Wimbledon I can tell you!

Galadriel said:
I know what you mean as well about when people argue against Christianity, and then I get thinking.."hey, that is a good question...hmm..?" and my mind spins off, but yeah, I have to be careful with that as well. Sometimes on this board that happens. But remember, just because you aren't sure of an answer, does not mean that there isn't one. My aunt told me that when I told her how I get conflicted and doubting sometimes.

Yeah. I really find it hard to stand back, let my head have a break, and bask in God's glorious creation and love for us. I get pinned down and a bit upset about some tricky aspects of theology, and I cant let these loose ends stand. Seek and ye shall find is the message - but in understanding some of the concepts my little mind cant cope! I guess that's a leap of faith though. I seem to be a bit paranoid about 1. Believing falsly, 2. Becoming a lazy Christian and hardening my heart to God. The second is more of a concern, but God I hope is working within me, and with my always.

Galadriel said:
It seems we are much alike, and have somewhat similar struggles. I too can sometimes feel a bit envious of those who are uninhibited and can just say whatever and feel very comfortable. But I agree that God doesn't make us all the same. One thing that really bugs me though about being quieter, is that people think that you don't have anything to you, and want to remake you in their way, you know, kinda like take you over, and impose themselves upon you, simply because they assume that if you are quiet, you don't have much of an identity. THAT bugs me!!! It is NOT true about us at all! I feel like saying "Just let me be me, and stop trying to make me into what I am not!" Do you ever feel this way as well?

Oh yeah, I definitely can empathise with that, really I can. I've come to accept that the only person that can understand me, is me and God I guess. Not their faults, but my very annoying attribute of not being really able to trust or relate to anyone in an articulate way. It's very frustrating for me to think I have real passions for things - and yet on the face of it I don't have much to say. Anway, I simply can't put across very well, and it's certainly a lot easier for me not to try unless I live with me or something. I guess I had this idea in my mind that Americans invented the phrase 'woooooooooooooooo yeeeaaaaah!!!!!' so it's unexpected and refreshing to find a differing perspective in you

Anyway, my mind is very content with the thought, I'm God's tool, he'll do with me what he will, and give me what I need and his work is really forfilling for me. I enjoy being myself and I don't feel that I really need to share it and previous attempts have just been to my further frustration, and resulted in others' wrong judgement similar to the experience you referrred to, which hurts. In the meantime I like Scripture reading and a bit of evangelism and support of others when I can, and my family, dj'ing now and then - it's great!

p.s do you recommend C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity?

Galadriel · Jul 9, 2003

Sleepyd said:
hehe, the latter of the two is far more inspiring - I realish the thought of South Ireland far more than the South Wimbledon I can tell you!
Yeah. I really find it hard to stand back, let my head have a break, and bask in God's glorious creation and love for us. I get pinned down and a bit upset about some tricky aspects of theology, and I cant let these loose ends stand. Seek and ye shall find is the message - but in understanding some of the concepts my little mind cant cope! I guess that's a leap of faith though. I seem to be a bit paranoid about 1. Believing falsly, 2. Becoming a lazy Christian and hardening my heart to God. The second is more of a concern, but God I hope is working within me, and with my always.
Oh yeah, I definitely can empathise with that, really I can. I've come to accept that the only person that can understand me, is me and God I guess. Not their faults, but my very annoying attribute of not being really able to trust or relate to anyone in an articulate way. It's very frustrating for me to think I have real passions for things - and yet on the face of it I don't have much to say. Anway, I simply can't put across very well, and it's certainly a lot easier for me not to try unless I live with me or something. I guess I had this idea in my mind that Americans invented the phrase 'woooooooooooooooo yeeeaaaaah!!!!!' so it's unexpected and refreshing to find a differing perspective in you
Anyway, my mind is very content with the thought, I'm God's tool, he'll do with me what he will, and give me what I need and his work is really forfilling for me. I enjoy being myself and I don't feel that I really need to share it and previous attempts have just been to my further frustration, and resulted in others' wrong judgement similar to the experience you referrred to, which hurts. In the meantime I like Scripture reading and a bit of evangelism and support of others when I can, and my family, dj'ing now and then - it's great!

p.s do you recommend C.S. Lewis - Mere Christianity?

Oh yes. I highly recommend C.S. Lewis' Mere Christianity, my favorite non-fiction book about Christianity! Very very good.

I know what you mean about those tricky aspects, I too feel like I can't let loose ends stand, and need to find an answer. I too would never want to believe falsley, and I want to keep searching in Christianity and never want it to become a passing thing, I think its here with me to stay.

I know what you mean about not being able to articulate or relate to others very well. I have always, no matter where, have had the nagging feeling that I do not quite belong. It has always been this way, even in churches, I still feel like the outsider looking in. Do you ever feel this way as well? It bugs me, and I am not sure why it is I always have this feeling. I just feel I can never relate to other people quite well.

It is good to know that God can use us, surely His work is much better than any I could think of. After all He knows all our needs and desires.

Lol, I would love to visit the South of Ireland, sounds good to me!

Blessed-one · Jul 9, 2003

Sleepyd said:
The latest fellowship struggle I face is that my quiet and reserved family church doesn't progress me in my faith via their teaching every week, and they have quite liberal views that I don't agree with. BUT if I go to a church that emphasises rich teaching, the style of worship is normally very extravert - something I simply can't cope with. I feel it in some ways, but I like the dignity of a one-ness with God in a peaceful style of worship.

trying out different churches is good, it allows you to see how people worship God in various ways and you may be able to find a church that suits you.

I'm also trying to understand grace, the most difficult part is coming to understand that even when I've had the worst of days, He still values me - I'd simply give up! I'm also a very sceptical person, so sometimes I can get very conscious and scared of the atheistic views of God banded around in books and society, my mind needs academic concentration on the case for God which is a real shame on one hand because I struggle through people's objections to Christianity, and my mind is constantly questioning itself again and again. On the other hand it means I can be a great tool of evangelism if I can be sure from my head to my toe of the case for Christ in the face of opposition to it.

questioning is good, but some people who like questioning tend not to accept answers, and instead, they choose the answers that satisfy them. Just... beware of this trap.

BigToe · Jul 10, 2003

Oh I love London, but yes, I can completely understand wanting to live in the countryside. I even went to Wimbledon while I was there

I love the Londoner's accents and would marry you for that alone hehe.

My Mom and sister think I am odd because I spend time in my apartment alone most of the time. I just prefer to be quiet and calm. So I definately understand about not wanting to be in some busy, somewhat chaotic environment.

In Church, I feel somewhat similar. I don't feel so much like an outsider looking in as much as just alone. I feel like it is just me there. Its weird. Like maybe its just me and God and no one else is really there. I don't do the dancing and shouting thing, but I find that I close my eyes because of the feeling of being there alone. Its just odd.

So no, not all americans are all woooo yeaahhhh or whatever hehe.

But just keep praying to God. It is fellowship with him that is the most important. Are there certain service projects your church does? That might be a calm way of having fellowship and giving back to the community.

Are there certain aspects of fellowship that you desire to have? Or are you simply wanting to know if not enjoying it means anything?

Remember, God has a wonderful plan for you life and will do amazing things in your future. Just expect him to do things for you and he will. Don't simply hope he will, but trust and fully expect that He will.

You are my brother in Christ, and if you ever need anything just let me know. Especially if it requires me to visit the UK hehe.

Sleepyd · Jul 10, 2003

Blanton911 said:
Oh I love London, but yes, I can completely understand wanting to live in the countryside. I even went to Wimbledon while I was there I love the Londoner's accents and would marry you for that alone hehe.

London isn't too bad I guess - I'll be able to say more when I've worked and integrated with some people after a few years, but I don't think I'll like it, but I might be surprised; I like being surprised.

I can't think how to relay my accent to you! People think my accent is very Londonish, but not so far as the queen's English!

Blanton911 said:
Are there certain service projects your church does?

Nope

but I value this attribute highly in a church - and I am still wandering around finding the best one for me. When I was studying earlier in the year, I went to a church that did work with children, and I helped, and I really enjoyed it! I'll do what I can in the future, but I'm looking at work from 9-5 so maybe a bit limited for work with the church

Blanton911 said:
Are there certain aspects of fellowship that you desire to have? Or are you simply wanting to know if not enjoying it means anything?

I'm ok with people in small doses or small groups over some time! A life of creating first impressions is the worst thing I can imagine, the best I can think of is a small house group with some really interesting people. I'm not bad over time, just can't deal with judgement on first impressions!

ahh well

thanks for your fellowship guys!

BigToe · Jul 10, 2003

Is there any way you could possibly still work with that church's group that helps children until you find the right church for you? I am praying for you. Know that God doesn't judge you and think any less of you for something you have done. He loves you always. Don't ever hesitate to ask if you need anything. And please know there is nothing you can do or say that will make me think poorly of you. God created you and because of that I love you!

Vollkommen Warrior · Jul 10, 2003

Galadriel said:
One thing that really bugs me though about being quieter, is that people think that you don't have anything to you, and want to remake you in their way, you know, kinda like take you over, and impose themselves upon you, simply because they assume that if you are quiet, you don't have much of an identity. THAT bugs me!!! It is NOT true about us at all! I feel like saying "Just let me be me, and stop trying to make me into what I am not!" Do you ever feel this way as well?

- Wow, I never thought people thought this way but thank you for the info. I am quiet by nature too. I am a lot different that I know how and can be the life of the party too (not that you cant). When I see someone quiet and I am in a mood to be extroverted, I may try to bring this person out. All this time, I thought it might be a good thing but you are right maybe they don't want to be "spotlighted" just bec I am in that mood. Thank you for mentioning this! I am learning every day myself!! :wave:

Sleepyd · Jul 11, 2003

Blanton911 said:
Is there any way you could possibly still work with that church's group that helps children until you find the right church for you?

I studied in the south west of England, about 200miles from where I reside now - so it'd be a long drive every Sunday!

It's a shame, I liked the Church and I fealt that I could be my own person without the prying eyes of my parents over me. If I did such a thing for a Church here they'd probably find it a bit odd, they find it odd enough that I disagree with them on their Christian views

but it's my particular cross to bear, and it's not as bad as what other people have to go through for their faith!

Blanton911 said:
I am praying for you. Know that God doesn't judge you and think any less of you for something you have done. He loves you always. Don't ever hesitate to ask if you need anything. And please know there is nothing you can do or say that will make me think poorly of you. God created you and because of that I love you!

Awww thanks. :hug:

BigToe · Jul 11, 2003

Oh, I didn't realize that was a church somewhere else. Well I pray you find the right Church home for your needs and desires as a child of God. Trust him to point you in the right direction.

Sleepyd · Jul 11, 2003

Sorry - I didn't make that clear did I! I have just graduated from Uni, so I am back home in London now

Thanks again, I'll have to be proactive and brave about this

Fellowship...a struggle?

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