Fine, then send your own kids to die

crystalpc

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datan said:
let's see...you go and invade another country, then you act so surprised when the natives do nasty things to your people.
I invaded no one! My peace was invaded on Sept 11, 2001. We just took the war to them. It was not their country anyway. It was the dictator Sadam Hussiens country, he was the owner, ruler, despot, and people lived and died on his whim. Did we forget that?
 
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BigToe

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no, no one said they thought Saddam was a cool dude here did they? lets not jump to a rather extreme conclusion. but when you go and fight in another's land you cannot really be that shocked at any sort of retaliation. just as our response to fight back after the attacks on September 11th should not be met with surprise. its kinda how the war thing works.
 
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jgarden

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After 9/11, America had generated universal support and goodwill. 'What happened??"

Several years later the Administration had frittered it all away with little or nothing to show for it. America now has strained relationships with many of her traditional allies including those in NATO. Tony Blair, one of America's stauchest Allies, may not survive another.

Now, the US is even forced to seek for the UN to "bail" them out of a failed policy. Years earlier the UN was being ridiculed for not finding WMD. Bush and the Administration have a unique ability to see everything in black and white and alienate possible allies.
 
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kermit

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crystalpc said:
I invaded no one! My peace was invaded on Sept 11, 2001. We just took the war to them. It was not their country anyway. It was the dictator Sadam Hussiens country, he was the owner, ruler, despot, and people lived and died on his whim. Did we forget that?
Who is them? There is no strong evidence to support that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11. Too many on this forum are doing this. They mention 9-11 and think that makes their case stonger.

Yes, I remember 9-11 very well. I'm just still waiting for the Iraqi/9-11 connection. As far as I'm concerned Iraq is a distraction from the War on Terror.
 
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crystalpc

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kermit said:
Who is them? There is no strong evidence to support that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11. Too many on this forum are doing this. They mention 9-11 and think that makes their case stonger.

Yes, I remember 9-11 very well. I'm just still waiting for the Iraqi/9-11 connection. As far as I'm concerned Iraq is a distraction from the War on Terror.
:doh:I thought you Knew that Iraq was in the middle east! That is the them.
 
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kermit

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crystalpc said:
:doh:I thought you Knew that Iraq was in the middle east! That is the them.
So why Iraq? We knew for certain that Saudi Arabia supports terrorists including Al Qeada. Why didn't we invade them? Or any other number of middle eastern countries that we know supports terrorist and/or has WMD's? Instead we start with one that may have supported terrorists and may not have disposed of its WMD's. To me that doesn't make sense. The only way that it does if some other motive was behind the invation.
 
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crystalpc

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Why Iraq, well the man had been shooting at our planes for years. He practiced state terrorism. He was someone who terrorized his own people. Someone who was hated by the world...and Chalibi and other moderate voices have been working for his overthrow since the first gulf war. We thought truly that if we freed them, we would have allies on our side. Another democracy in the middle east, besides Israel.
 
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Blindfaith

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Wow. I'm simply amazed at some of these posts here. I guess Saddam was a good guy and deserved an ice-cream cone **rolleyes**.

Saddam DID NOT have any right to shoot at planes. There was a UN resolution...but WAIT! That really means nothing actually, it's just ink on a piece of paper, so that must be right. He could shoot. He could also MURDER a million or so people, but hey! That's okay - he's got every right. Right? It's his sovereign country.

Because it was his "sovereign country", he could put people through a SHREDDER, head or feet first. No biggie.....I'm sure it didn't hurt.

His psycopathic sons could RAPE, ABUSE AND MURDER women in their torture chambers, but hey! That's okay. It was his sovereign nation.

Yep, let's give it back to Saddam. He's the leader of a "sovereign" country. **hurl**
 
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jameseb

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datan said:
your planes were invading his sovereignty; he had every right to shoot at them.


Now before you raised a ruckus over something I said because you felt insulted by it as an 'American'.... now you refer to them as "your planes." Which is it or am I just totally confused again? :p

But sticking to the issue here, he had every 'right' to shoot at our airplanes.... and he had every right to accept the fact that would come back to bite him in the butt one day. :) Agreed? ;)
 
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datan

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Blindfaith said:
Saddam DID NOT have any right to shoot at planes. There was a UN resolution...but WAIT! That really means nothing actually, it's just ink on a piece of paper, so that must be right.
and I don't suppose you could point to the specific resolution?
 
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datan

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jameseb said:
Now before you raised a ruckus over something I said because you felt insulted by it as an 'American'.... now you refer to them as "your planes." Which is it or am I just totally confused again? :p
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
I never claimed to be an American.



But sticking to the issue here, he had every 'right' to shoot at our airplanes.... and he had every right to accept the fact that would come back to bite him in the butt one day. :) Agreed? ;)
not necessarily.
the planes had no right to be there.
he had every right to take defensive action against those planes.

which doesn't give the US the right to invade.
 
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jameseb

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datan said:
I don't understand what you're trying to say here.
I never claimed to be an American.

My mistake then. :)


not necessarily.
the planes had no right to be there.
he had every right to take defensive action against those planes.

which doesn't give the US the right to invade.

As I mentioned above, Resolution 687, clause 8 reads, "Iraq shall not take or threaten hostile acts directed against any representative or personnel of the United Nations or the IAEA or of any Member State taking action to uphold any Council resolution."


Now will begin the argument over the interpretation of this clause... ;) But then, once again, we can thank the United Nations for being so united and agreeable on these issues so as to not empower Saddam to thumb his nose at us as he constantly did.
 
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BigToe

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funny how we are so quick to hold others accountable to the UN resolutions we make against them, but we wont even sign agreements so we won't be held accountable. I think the US needs to mature and learn that its either comply with the UN on it all or nothing- but not pick and choose which things we will let others do and wont, while we can do them all
 
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jameseb

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BigToe said:
funny how we are so quick to hold others accountable to the UN resolutions we make against them, but we wont even sign agreements so we won't be held accountable. I think the US needs to mature and learn that its either comply with the UN on it all or nothing- but not pick and choose which things we will let others do and wont, while we can do them all


What UN resolutions do we not abide by?
 
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BigToe

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Blindfaith said:
Wow. I'm simply amazed at some of these posts here. I guess Saddam was a good guy and deserved an ice-cream cone **rolleyes**.

Saddam DID NOT have any right to shoot at planes. There was a UN resolution...but WAIT! That really means nothing actually, it's just ink on a piece of paper, so that must be right. He could shoot. He could also MURDER a million or so people, but hey! That's okay - he's got every right. Right? It's his sovereign country.

Because it was his "sovereign country", he could put people through a SHREDDER, head or feet first. No biggie.....I'm sure it didn't hurt.

His psycopathic sons could RAPE, ABUSE AND MURDER women in their torture chambers, but hey! That's okay. It was his sovereign nation.

Yep, let's give it back to Saddam. He's the leader of a "sovereign" country. **hurl**

wow. way to jump to a rather extreme and ridiculous conclusion. who said that saddam was a great guy? who said we should praise him for killing people? who said that we should just ignore him? i saw one person saying that because planes were flying over his airspace he had the right to defend himself. that person didnt even say they supported what saddam did.

as i said before- no one here is saying saddam was a great guy or a wonderful leader. but saying WE know how another country should be run is quite egotistical and ethnocentric and most certainly false. i mean the US is who put saddam into power to begin with!
 
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