Hang your head in shame America....

Suzannah

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Silvio D said:
Are you denying that Travellers carry out systematic Social Welfare fraud? Also the drunken sprees thay go on terrorising the inhabitants of the unfortunate town they choose to 'take over'...

Really Suzannah. Smell the coffee....

I am denying that rash generalisations of "forgotten" peoples is accurate. I am also denying that accusing them of 'terrorising" the inhabitants is accurate. Give me a break! Please give them social justice and medical care. This will go a long way toward solvng the problem.

To the rest of you: Please ignore self-proclaimed "Irish" trolls. They do not speak for the country, nor do they speak in the tradition of Irish rebels, commonly revered for their loyalty to human decency.
 
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Blindfaith

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Believe whatever you want and knock yourself out. Want to think American's are the bad guys? Go for it. Yep, we're the evil empire, the rogue nation, the capitalistic pigs.

:rolleyes:

Whatever.

The Americans deny it, but according to you, Silvio, the Americans are wrong. **shrug** When the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" comes out, then I'll form my opinion. The bbc is a very liberal media tool, so of course they're going to put a particular slant on the story. *blech*
 
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renegade pariah

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The only real issues here are more dead people. A lot of people died all at once some of them were children. Perhaps it was an accident perhaps it was a targeted attack at a safehouse as the Americans are reporting. Regardless, people died. The survivors morn, some will grow angry at the injustice. One thing is certain the men in helicopters of a foreign invader will have the blame. I suggest that prayers for the departed are in order, as well as prayers for the soldiers, some who may be feeling remorse at having killed any innocents. One could allso pray that there is a real concern for those people caught in the middle of the violence.
 
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Suzannah

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renegade pariah said:
The only real issues here are more dead people. A lot of people died all at once some of them were children. Perhaps it was an accident perhaps it was a targeted attack at a safehouse as the Americans are reporting. Regardless, people died. The survivors morn, some will grow angry at the injustice. One thing is certain the men in helicopters of a foreign invader will have the blame. I suggest that prayers for the departed are in order, as well as prayers for the soldiers, some who may be feeling remorse at having killed any innocents. One could allso pray that there is a real concern for those people caught in the middle of the violence.
I would agree with this!!!! :) May we all be sober and salient in ouremembrance o fthose who have giventheir lives! (*suzannah wonders what is wrong with the formatting here!)
 
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Existential1

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Suzannah said:
Eschewal. is that a word???? It might make the difference in your note making sense.

Eschewal Suzannah: is the turning your back on something, not having recourse to it, not taking up some opportunity or capacity, avoiding factoring something in; I think it is a dictionary word, certainly the root eschew should be.

So the USA routinely eschews international law and its institutions, would be an usage example. Or many Christians purposely choose to eschew the intellect, seeing it as of satan, might be another.
 
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Existential1

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Blindfaith said:
Believe whatever you want and knock yourself out. Want to think American's are the bad guys? Go for it. Yep, we're the evil empire, the rogue nation, the capitalistic pigs.

:rolleyes:

Whatever.

The Americans deny it, but according to you, Silvio, the Americans are wrong. **shrug** When the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" comes out, then I'll form my opinion. The bbc is a very liberal media tool, so of course they're going to put a particular slant on the story. *blech*

We must succour the newbies preserve what is true in their witness, and generally show them more charatible reception, even in their prejudices.

We are not about the business of doctrinal cleansing in CF.

I have got that right, haven't I: doctrinal cleansing isn't on the agenda at CF?
 
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Suzannah

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FOR THE UNINITIATED:

Joe Plunkett was perhaps the most revered, beloved man in Irish history. He was not a "raging communist". He was, quite possibly, the most decent man who ever lived. He was an Irish Catholic who loved, to distraction, an English girl,

At the time, their marriage was impossible, and they could not LEGALLY marry. He was a faithful member of the Easter Uprising. He gave his life for his belief that Ireland was destined to Freedom from what he perceived as tyrannical, English rule. He was a fiathful supporter of Padraig Colum, an Irish poet, and historian who set the stage for Romance.


William Butler Yeats hailed him as the "man who taught Ireland to love".

Joe Plunkett was the son of a Papal Count. In 1916, he was arrested for crimes against the Crown for being quite simply involved in a "publication consiparcy". Being in love with Grace, his beloved, he could do no other, and he pledged his DEATH for her, and for Ireland. On his execution, he wedded Grace. She was the "Unrequited Bride" of Ireland until her death.

To this day, Joe Plunkett is the man who brought a nation to its feet, and a Crown to its knees. He was no Communist. He was a Hero. And a better man I've yet to meet!
 
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Existential1

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Suzannah said:
To this day, Joe Plunkett is the man who brought a nation to its feet, and a Crown to its knees. He was no Communist. He was a Hero. And a better man I've yet to meet!

Those you support are blessed by your heart felt eloquence.

You mention he was inspired by a poet.
I read several articles rebutting the coalition argument that Fallujah was about Baathists or SH loyalism; written at the time of siege stand-off.
Form the point of view of the authors of these articles, much of the resistance in Fallujah, fulcrummed around a traditional poet: who was placing the sentiments of nationalist and Arab resistance to invasion, in this revered poetic and musical medium; and battering it out to market through the modern medium of the CD.
His CD's apparently were to be found everywhere: perhaps crucially in whatever in the Arab street, equates to the Irish pub.

There was an Irish poet who influenced me somewhat once, at least in the way he cut through a day. I think his name was Brendan Behan, and I remember him as having a brother, who himself was no lightwieght.

I like the Irish expression that a person has no "side".
And, of course, the Irish direction riddle, that the best direction involves not starting from here.
 
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Suzannah

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An Irish Rebel Ballad:

O, Grace just hold me in your arms
and let this moment linger...
They'll take me out at dawn
and I will die..
with all my love I place this
wedding ring upon your finger
There won't be time to share our love
for we must say goodbye.

1. Now I know its' hard
for you my lvoe
to ever understand
The love I have for these great men,
my love for this dear land.
but when Padraig called me to his side
down in the GPO
I had to leave my own sick bed
to him I had to go.....

CHORUS

2. And as the dawn is breaking,
my heart is breaking too,
On this May morn, as I walk out,
my thoughts will be of you.
And I write some words upon the wall
so everyone will know,
I loved so much
that I could see
His blood upon the rose..

CHORUS

3. Andf when Ireland is finaly free
wiill She remember me?
If I can think there's one kind thought
My grave will sweeter be
Gracie sure and have them lay me out
where everyoen will see
The land I loved so much in life
in death embraces me.

CHORUS
 
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Suzannah

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Existential1 said:
Those you support are blessed by your heart felt eloquence.

You mention he was inspired by a poet.
I read several articles rebutting the coalition argument that Fallujah was about Baathists or SH loyalism; written at the time of siege stand-off.
Form the point of view of the authors of these articles, much of the resistance in Fallujah, fulcrummed around a traditional poet: who was placing the sentiments of nationalist and Arab resistance to invasion, in this revered poetic and musical medium; and battering it out to market through the modern medium of the CD.
His CD's apparently were to be found everywhere: perhaps crucially in whatever in the Arab street, equates to the Irish pub.

There was an Irish poet who influenced me somewhat once, at least in the way he cut through a day. I think his name was Brendan Behan, and I remember him as having a brother, who himself was no lightwieght.

I like the Irish expression that a person has no "side".
And, of course, the Irish direction riddle, that the best direction involves not starting from here.
I'm glad you enjoyed Brendan Behan!!! :hug: he was the Father of the Irish movement to embrace a humanism that was beyond his own Political borders....God bless YOU!
 
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Suzannah

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Silvio D said:
Apologies. I was mixing him up with the Plunkett who wrote Strumpet City. However it doesn't take away from the fact that many Travellers are inbred hooligans who need to be locked up in the 'Joy' for a few decades in order to make our rural towns a safer place....


Gerout 'f it!!!! Ye know what I'm saying....Move to a place where you won't be bothered and we won't be bothered withya.....like West Africa>>>

but don't be saying that you represent US...you don't.
 
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Existential1

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Suzannah said:
O, Grace just hold me in your arms
and let this moment linger...
.....
3. Andf when Ireland is finaly free
......

Ireland is not yet free sadly.

All of my life I have known that what we UK folk had caused, and were doing in Ireland, was a black stain.

My own Scottish life has always been diminished by this awareness.

The peace process has been wonderful, but so sabotaged by agenda.

There was an SDLP (a party wishing for Irish nationalist or united republic freedom, but by peaceful and political means only) man who was the engine of this peace process.
For me, it was his personal ministry, his personal comitment to redemption: which alone put the peace process show on the road; where others have simply lived of his bounty, as that process stutters and splutters in procedural gridlock.
With his retiral into the political shade, we lost much.

Ghandi also did this in India: political progress, through continuous redemption and retrieval, evry day; of what to others seemed gridlocked and hopeless.

We need Ghandis and John Humes in every setting of conflict: In Iraq, and in IsraelPalestine and elsewhere; redemption must take political expression; must be muscularly worked through the current affairs which beset us.

There is no other full Christian agenda, although not every Christian need work the political and current interface. As communion we can support a Christianity which generally redeems, and here, and now.
 
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Suzannah

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You may not have it in Scot's life. My heart is with you on that. However we Irish have had it, over and over again....I have no explantan for this except to say that historALLY, we have had other examples and favours. If you wish to here more, then I will send you more.
 
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SanDiegoAtheist

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Blindfaith said:
The Americans deny it, but according to you, Silvio, the Americans are wrong. **shrug** When the "whole truth and nothing but the truth" comes out, then I'll form my opinion. The bbc is a very liberal media tool, so of course they're going to put a particular slant on the story. *blech*

The BBC, whatever else it may be, is one of the most well-respected news organizations in the world. They are more liberal than most United States news sources, true (but US News sources, despite claims on the Right of Liberal bias, are actually either centrist or right leaning...and even perceived as such by the majority of Americans) - but they are impeccable in checking their facts before they go with a news story.

Unlike, for example, Faux News, who has actually FIRED a newscaster for refusing to broadcast a story that the broadcaster knew to be false.

Considering that the US Armed Forces seem to be having a hard time investigating themselves at present (as the most prominent example, they had been receiving reports of abuse by the ICRC and other human rights orgs for well over 18 months before the pictures finally apparently made them do something about it - SOP, evidently was to ask the MP's "Did you do this" under oath, and if they all said "No", to drop the investigation), these days, I'm a lot less likely to accept their word at face value - especially when the photographs seem to state otherwise.

Cheers,

The San Diego Atheist (Who really really wants to believe that our Armed Forces aren't in the midst of a big coverup, but who is having a harder and harder time believing that).
 
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LuckyCharm

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Silvio D said:
Well anyone with a semblance of knowledge of Iraqi culture knows that gunfire is an integral part of a celebration including weddings.
That's what I said: "They were firing weapons in the air."

To suggest that with all the high powered technology at the disposal to the American forces that they could have mistaken a wedding celebration for being attacked suggests the people manning these crafts are as dumb as they look....
Why don't you tell me what "high powered technology" would have indicated to a helicopter flight crew that the fire they were apparently taking was from a wedding and not an insurgency operative??? It's easy to call them "dumb" from your comfortable little position, safe and sound at home, but put yourself in the position of a gunner in a craft that has just begun taking fire out of the blue, and I daresay you would have done exactly the same.

Pointing fingers and casting stones is all too easy to do from the distant vantage point most Americans occupy. You have no idea what kind of pressure that flight crew was under -- what if they'd just had a buddy killed in-flight the day before? What if they'd just received a report about possible enemy activity in that area? What if they were just so blasted war-weary in body and soul that their reflexes had been worn raw, and shooting back was all they could really do at the moment?

I think anyone who criticizes our troops' actions over there ought to be forced to go spend six months -- just six short months! -- on the ground there, patrolling those hot, dusty streets in full battle rattle, dodging bombs and bullets. And then see if you'd be singing the same tune after that experience....

~~Cheryl
 
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