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Today at 09:03 PM Badfish™ said this in Post #19



Both, it is a freewilled decision to accept the gift (IMO), then once accepted God fills your heart, God knows the hearts of men.

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I will wholeheartedly agree with your last statement, "God knows the hearts of men".

He knows just how much grace each of His beloved need in order to bring them to salvation. For the Apostle Paul, it took being blinded on the road to Damascus, with me it took His quiet urging more than 30 years ago in the privacy of my bedroom. See, God knew that I didn't need to be struck down and blinded, while at the same time He knew that a quiet nudge wouldn't get Paul's attention.

Yet, why doesn't God apply His grace in the same way upon all men? Why doesn't He strike down more people with blindness while they are engaged in sinful activity? If God wanted to save everyone, then why doesn't He intervene in their lives the same way that He did for Paul, or for me? You don't need to be a Rhodes scholar to recognize that many people never once hear the name of Jesus Christ their entire lives, let alone get a "Damascus Road" experience.

Yes, God knows just how to reach His elect, the rest He leaves to their own destruction.

Today at 10:14 PM Badfish™ said this in Post #8

...unbelief is not [forgivable], unless one comes to eventually believing.

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Well then, "unbelief" ~IS~ forgivable! (With all due respect, your statement here is a bit nonsensical).

If "unbelief" were truly and absolutely UNFORGIVABLE, then many Christians who previously lived in unbelief (for argument sake: active voluntary rejection of Christ) have no hope whatsoever.

So since it actually keeps you from heaven I would say that it is at least a sin. (given that the person has sufficient knowledge of the gospel and Christ, to make an educated decision)

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So, if "unbelief" is indeed a sin, then was this sin atoned for on the cross?

Idzerd

Today at 10:32 PM SBfaithful said this in Post #13

The unbelief is resolved by belief.
The only sin that you can not be forgiven for is not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ. Whenever you turn from unbelief to belief, then you are saved.

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Let us presume, for the sake of argument that "the only sin that you can not be forgiven for" is "not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Hypothetically speaking, let us say I am currently one who is not a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, according to your above statement, this sin of "not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" (of which I am currently guilty) is not forgivable (your statemetn was: it "can not be forgiven").

If the sin of my current unbelief "can not be forgiven", then NECESSARILY I am to spend the rest of my life in Eternal Punishment (Hell).

Notice, that even if my current status of "unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ" is changed to "belief in the Lord Jesus Christ", then I still am necessarily doomed for Eternal Punishment (Hell).

According to your above statement, this is NECESSARILY so because I was once guilty of the Sin of "Unbelief" and the Sin of "Unbelief, as you argue, "can not be forgiven".

However, it could be argued, I suppose, that I could get to Heaven even with my unforgiven past Sin of "Unbelief" held against me. But this would require the position that one can enter Heaven while still accountable for unforgiven sins.

But if one can enter Heaven while still acountable for unforgiven sins, then why do we need a Savior???

Idzerd

Yesterday at 10:51 PM Philip said this in Post #16



If I must choose one, then the answer is 1.

God made forgiveness available to all through Christ's death. However, each person must partake if this grace in order to be forgiven.

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Then Christ did not actually pay the debt (atone) for the sins of anybody on the cross?

Idzerd

Today at 03:55 AM Jerry_M said this in Post #17



How does one turn from unbelief to belief?

Does it come from within themselves, or is it a supernatural gift from God? That is the Key question here.

Either men conjure up saving faith, or it is a gift that God bestows on those upon whom He pours His mercy.

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The gift of "freewill"
We have a choice to accept or reject.

Today at 12:08 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #26


The gift of "freewill"

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Where does Scripture describe this "gift of 'freewill' "?

Idzerd

Today at 04:58 AM Idzerd VanDellen said this in Post #24



Let us presume, for the sake of argument that "the only sin that you can not be forgiven for" is "not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Hypothetically speaking, let us say I am currently one who is not a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, according to your above statement, this sin of "not believing in the Lord Jesus Christ" (of which I am currently guilty) is not forgivable (your statemetn was: it "can not be forgiven").

If the sin of my current unbelief "can not be forgiven", then NECESSARILY I am to spend the rest of my life in Eternal Punishment (Hell).

Notice, that even if my current status of "unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ" is changed to "belief in the Lord Jesus Christ", then I still am necessarily doomed for Eternal Punishment (Hell).

According to your above statement, this is NECESSARILY so because I was once guilty of the Sin of "Unbelief" and the Sin of "Unbelief, as you argue, "can not be forgiven".

However, it could be argued, I suppose, that I could get to Heaven even with my unforgiven past Sin of "Unbelief" held against me. But this would require the position that one can enter Heaven while still accountable for unforgiven sins.

But if one can enter Heaven while still acountable for unforgiven sins, then why do we need a Savior???

Idzerd

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NEVER accepting the Lord as your personal Savior is unforgiveable.

Today at 05:09 AM Idzerd VanDellen said this in Post #27



Where does Scripture describe this "gift of 'freewill' "?

Idzerd

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Satan had freewill. Adam and Eve had freewill. Everyone has freewill.

Today at 12:13 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #28




NEVER accepting the Lord as your personal Savior is unforgiveable.

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So then, you are changing your position that the Sin of "Unbelief" "can not" be forgiven to a position that the Sin of "Unbelief" can indeed be forgiven?

Now, to your above quote: "NEVER accepting the Lord as your personal Savior is unforgiveable".

There were thousands upon thousands of Natives in the Americas at the time of Christ and for 1500 years later who "NEVER accepted Christ as [their] personal Savior". In fact, these folks never even had the opportunity to "accept" Christ as their personal Savior.

I'm assuming you would agree that their "never accepting Christ" was likewise "unforgivable" even when they never had the opportunity to "accept" Christ as their personal Savior?

Idzerd

Today at 12:15 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #29


Satan had freewill. Adam and Eve had freewill. Everyone has freewill.

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I didn't ask who had "free will". I asked for the Scripture which describes the gift of "free will".

Idzerd

Today at 05:29 AM Idzerd VanDellen said this in Post #30




So then, you are changing your position that the Sin of "Unbelief" "can not" be forgiven to a position that the Sin of "Unbelief" can indeed be forgiven?

Now, to your above quote: "NEVER accepting the Lord as your personal Savior is unforgiveable".

There were thousands upon thousands of Natives in the Americas at the time of Christ and for 1500 years later who "NEVER accepted Christ as [their] personal Savior". In fact, these folks never even had the opportunity to "accept" Christ as their personal Savior.

I'm assuming you would agree that their "never accepting Christ" was likewise "unforgivable" even when they never had the opportunity to "accept" Christ as their personal Savior?

Idzerd

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Yes, I believe in the unpardonable sin(not accepting Jesus) I do not feel that I changed my position. Once you accept Jesus as your Savior you are forgiven of all sins. But hearing the word and rejecting it or not making a decision on it is not forgiveable.

I also believe that if you have never heard the word of God or the story of Jesus and what he did for us then you are not held accountable.