Trinitarian Inconsistencies

Osiris · Mar 23, 2003

While I was reading this post, I saw some1 using the analogy of God being 1×1×1 = 1. I was thinking, how can I multiply myself with another person or other people and expect to get a count result?
Let's say I was in a room with 10 people, and I multiplied all of them together with me, the result will be 1, but still every single individual will be unique. To get a count # of how many people there are in the room, we SHOULD add all the people together: 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 = 10, now we have the number of people that there are in the room.
Let's apply the same thing to God, Son and the Holy Spirit: 1+1+1 = 3
The number of individuals are 3.

jodrey · Mar 23, 2003

Exactly, but I think most Christians realize this anyway. The Trinity is, and always will be, "The Divine Mystery."

Jedi · Mar 23, 2003

While I was reading this post, I saw some1 using the analogy of God being 1×1×1 = 1. I was thinking, how can I multiply myself with another person or other people and expect to get a count result?

Like I said, God is triune, not triplex. We aren't adding together three different individuals here. God's one essence has three centers of personhood. Not only this, but you are trying to figure God out by comparing Him to you, and I think this is mistake #1.

1 cubed is simply a demonstration of how three things can be one thing.

A different illustration based in human nature is the relation between the human mind, to its ideas, and the expression of these ideas in words. There is obviously a unity among all three of these without there being an identity. In this sense, they illustrate the Trinity.

Vladimir · Mar 24, 2003

20th March 2003 at 10:39 PM jodrey said this in Post #11

There you go. Hmm... The Trinity aside, I'd like to talk about analogy and metaphor a little. The scriptures are full of it. Is there anything else besides the Trinity that can't be explained through real-world examples? I honestly can't think of anything.

?

 

What about free will and predestination?

Vladimir · Mar 24, 2003

In quartz phisics, for instance, a part can be equal with a whole.

At the other hand, a man could be father, son, oncle etc. at the same time.

jodrey · Mar 24, 2003

Free will is a very understandable concept, and so is predestination, although I don't agree with it.

I'm not familiar with quartz physics. Can you explain this concept a little bit?

At the other hand, a man could be father, son, oncle etc. at the same time.

True, but not all to the same person. The Father is our Father, the Son is His Son, yet He is also our Father. According to the Trinity, He is His own Son.

Jedi · Mar 25, 2003

According to the Trinity, He is His own Son.

Yep. If God caused His own birth (coming down in the form of a man through a woman without the use of a man), then that's exactly what He'd be.

As far as free will is concerned, it may be an easy concept to conceive, but I think it's impossible for man to explain how free will works. What is it based on? If free will is based on a set program of psychology, then it's not free, since all we do is follow that program (whether we be "programmed" by genetics or our environment). If it's not this, it could be pure randomness, but having your will be purely random is not a good will to have at all.

There must exist some way that humans can have free will outside of these options in order that we can make free, sensible decisions concerning our acceptance of God. There just seems to be no way of explaining how with human understanding.

jodrey · Mar 25, 2003

I think it's impossible for man to explain how free will works.

Why? I think it's quite easy. But then, and I'm not sure, it might be strictly LDS doctrine. If so, then I won't describe it, but I do not think it's a difficult concept to grasp.

If free will is based on a set program of psychology, then it's not free, since all we do is follow that program (whether we be "programmed" by genetics or our environment).

That's the question that first got me thinking... I think. You state it differently. It's fun though, and there are a few different possibilities.

Jedi · Mar 25, 2003

Why? I think it's quite easy. But then, and I'm not sure, it might be strictly LDS doctrine. If so, then I won't describe it, but I do not think it's a difficult concept to grasp.

You obviously haven't tried to explain free will to atheists then, huh?

That's the question that first got me thinking... I think. You state it differently. It's fun though, and there are a few different possibilities.

A few possibilities, but none of them adequately explain how humanity's free will works or what its basis is.

watcher215 · Apr 15, 2003

With regard to analogies that give insight into God's nature; I think they are all very helpful. I think the earth and all of creation is filled with analogies that in certain ways correspond to God's nature. Although none of these seem to be absolute, I believe we must absorb whatever limited insight they may offer.
 
I think my reasoning for the above is well supported by the following:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Romans 1:20 (NIV)

God Bless  :wave:

jodrey · Apr 16, 2003

Yesterday at 05:13 AM watcher215 said this in Post #30

With regard to analogies that give insight into God's nature; I think they are all very helpful. I think the earth and all of creation is filled with analogies that in certain ways correspond to God's nature. Although none of these seem to be absolute, I believe we must absorb whatever limited insight they may offer.
 
I think my reasoning for the above is well supported by the following:

For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Romans 1:20 (NIV)

God Bless 

Yes! I adamantly agree! Thank you, Watcher!

jodrey · Apr 16, 2003

You obviously haven't tried to explain free will to atheists then, huh?

Actually, I have, but they generally simply don't believe it. They've admitted the possibility, but say, "Nah, I don't believe that." Of course, they don't believe in God either, so...

Grace_Alone4gives · Apr 17, 2003

Humorous...another thread on the Trinity. Why so curious jodrey?

calgal · Apr 20, 2003

17th April 2003 at 06:05 PM HopeTheyDance said this in Post #33

Humorous...another thread on the Trinity. Why so curious jodrey?

Hmmm! I have never seen Mormons so interested in the subject.

LAMan4Him · Apr 20, 2003

I still know His ways are above my ways.. and His thoughts above mine. That said, throughout the new testament there are many examples of the Triune God working... Jesus mentioned that He and the Father are One. You also see Father Son and Holy Spirit working... but you also see a sameness in will.. and the oneness of God. It goes back to the begining when in Genesis they make man in 'our' image.

Something we can not understand.. (the complete nature of God)....but we get to see shadows of who he is...

jodrey · Apr 22, 2003

Humorous...another thread on the Trinity. Why so curious jodrey?

Hmmm! I have never seen Mormons so interested in the subject.

Actually, I made this thread a while back. And abandoned it right away, if you notice the first page. I find the idea and historical formation of Trinity fascinating (and headache-inducing), but I really don't like debating it.

Trinitarian Inconsistencies

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