Would you kill to save a loved one ?

ZiSunka · Apr 16, 2003

Anyone ever consider praying consistently that this never has to happen to them?

Is the Lord not powerful enough to keep you out of situations too big for you to handle? Is He too weak to protect you from ever having to kill someone? Is prayer something too thin to act as your shield?

KeysforChrist · Apr 16, 2003

Let's just say that me and Smith & Wesson have a binding covenant to shoot first and ask questions later of anyone entering my house without my consent.

What's the verse about "Greater love hath no man who would lay down his life for a friend"?

And yes, killing and murder are two seperate things. That's why when a soldier is in battle and he "kills" the enemy he is never charged with a crime. That of course would be if the war was justifiable. And let's not get into a debate on Iraq.

Why do you think all these fanatical Muslim extremists think they are going to heaven by blowing themselves to bits in the name of Allah? For the glory of God.

Speaking of which - how often does God command people in the Old Testament to go and kill their enemies? Just curious. But I lost count after 10 times at least.

ZiSunka · Apr 16, 2003

So, Keys, God is too weak to keep you out of situations where you might be tempted to kill someone? That's why you carry a gun?

reeann · Apr 16, 2003

I don't think he is saying God is too weak. I think he is taking responsibility for protection of his family, which is Godly. Also, it sure does not hurt to ASK daily that God protect your family from harm. I had a friend whose two little children died in a car wreck. She certainly had alot of faith that God would protect her and her children. Did God allow her children to be killed because she didn't trust Him enough. I don't think so.

Sin is in the world and God does not always stop bad things from happening to good people.

I would never own a gun, because it would probably be used against me. I don't like them. I pray daily for God to protect myself and my family and would hope that a situation would never come to where I would have to make that decision. If it does, I am trusting God to help me make right decisions and no matter the result, I know there is nothing man can do to me, as I am a redeemed child of the King

ZiSunka · Apr 16, 2003

God is sovereign, and if you pray for protection but He still puts you in a situation where you have to choose to kill or die, I doubt He is using you as the angel of death in the life of the other person. The Christian life is NOT about clinging to this life, but is instead about following Christ. Christ allowed Himself, at the right time, to be brutally tortured and killed. Some Christians still have to go through that today. They suffer the same way Christ did, rather than take the life of an unsaved person.

Jim Elliot said, " He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose ". Then he died at the hands of enemies rather than kill them. He could have "defended" himself, but he chose Christlikeness. Today, those enemies are all Christians, because of his amazing witness for Christ. He so strongly believed he would go to heaven and they wouldn't, that this impressed the Aucas and they all got saved.

Which is more important to you? Your life, or following Christ?

reeann · Apr 16, 2003

lambslove, i don't disagree with your statement about offerring up your own life. That is not the issue discuss, or at least, i don't think so. I'm not sure what your original point was to KeysforChrist. To me, it appeared you were saying that if someone comes and attack your loved ones it was God's will, for God would never put you in a situation you couldn't handle? Please unconfuse me

nomad · Apr 16, 2003

Today at 03:03 PM lambslove said this in Post #25

God is sovereign, and if you pray for protection but He still puts you in a situation where you have to choose to kill or die, I doubt He is using you as the angel of death in the life of the other person. The Christian life is NOT about clinging to this life, but is instead about following Christ. Christ allowed Himself, at the right time, to be brutally tortured and killed. Some Christians still have to go through that today. They suffer the same way Christ did, rather than take the life of an unsaved person.

Jim Elliot said, " He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose ". Then he died at the hands of enemies rather than kill them. He could have "defended" himself, but he chose Christlikeness. Today, those enemies are all Christians, because of his amazing witness for Christ. He so strongly believed he would go to heaven and they wouldn't, that this impressed the Aucas and they all got saved.

Which is more important to you? Your life, or following Christ?

I agree with most of what you say however the original question was would you kill to spare the life of another if it was the only way to save the other.

 

Would youi kill to spare the life of someone you love ?. If the oportunity presented itself to enable you to prevent the life of your loved one being taken, but by default required that you take the life of the perpetrator, would you/could you, do it?

Let's say someone were to attack you while I was with you.  First I'd ask God for the annointing.  Then I would follow though with it.  I know that there are many variables to different situations.  The variables is what requires a total Trust in what God says to do at that time.  It is to be obeyed wether it is understood or not.  There is no room for theology or doctrine at that point.  The only thing that counts is what God tells you to do and you best do it.  Hypothetically wether you agreed with me or not If your attacker was going to harm or murder you and The Lord said to Kill, it would be done.  We are the hand of God to administer His justice.  Justice comes with extreme measure sometimes.

I pray you will ask God to help you understand what we would like for you to know about this topic.

OracleX · Apr 16, 2003

It also depends on what is going on? If it is persecution and the person is going to die because of Christ ... then why kill another person? Dying for Christ is probably one of the best ways to go.

reeann · Apr 17, 2003

I think its natural and God given emotion to want to protect those you love. With God, its all about the heart motive. I trust Jesus to judge my motive.

ZiSunka · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 05:37 AM nomad said this in Post #27

Let's say someone were to attack you while I was with you.  First I'd ask God for the annointing.  Then I would follow though with it.  I know that there are many variables to different situations.  The variables is what requires a total Trust in what God says to do at that time.  It is to be obeyed wether it is understood or not.  There is no room for theology or doctrine at that point.  The only thing that counts is what God tells you to do and you best do it.  Hypothetically wether you agreed with me or not If your attacker was going to harm or murder you and The Lord said to Kill, it would be done.  We are the hand of God to administer His justice.  Justice comes with extreme measure sometimes.

I pray you will ask God to help you understand what we would like for you to know about this topic.

Please don't ever kill anyone to save my life. I believe that God is sovereign and that if He allows me to be killed, then it is my time to go. I go to Heaven, but the attacker would end up in Hell. I'd prefer that he live and be given a chance to hear the gospel and be saved. I'd rather forgive than kill.

reeann · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 04:40 PM lambslove said this in Post #30

Please don't ever kill anyone to save my life. I believe that God is sovereign and that if He allows me to be killed, then it is my time to go. I go to Heaven, but the attacker would end up in Hell. I'd prefer that he live and be given a chance to hear the gospel and be saved. I'd rather forgive than kill.

No one can question that heart motive lamb's love

nomad · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 10:40 AM lambslove said this in Post #30

Please don't ever kill anyone to save my life. I believe that God is sovereign and that if He allows me to be killed, then it is my time to go. I go to Heaven, but the attacker would end up in Hell. I'd prefer that he live and be given a chance to hear the gospel and be saved. I'd rather forgive than kill.

I appreciate your conviction but would like to steer you into a little more truth then what you have.

First you say the Lord is sovereign then turn around and ask me not to obey Him If in our pretend story He asked me to kill your attacker.  I'm sorry lambslove but Gods spoken command to me in our scenario would take precedence over your request.  I also appreciate your concern for the attacker but you don't know if your attacker is an apostate or not.  The Lord is soveriegn and nothing is hidden from Him.  He knows who will accept Him and who will not.

Another thing, if in our pretend story the Lord gave to me a specific command to "kill" your attacker, if you interfered I would disable you as well for your own good.  More than likely in our pretend story He has it planned for you to reach millions while your attacker will reach no one.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart; do not depend on your own understanding.

 

OracleX · Apr 18, 2003

You are missing a big point Nomad. Look at all the apostles and most of all look at Christ. Chirst could have called down 10,000 angels to kill those who seeked and put him to death. Every one of the apostles were also put to death, and some of them were horrible deaths. Peter was crucified upside down! Not one of them seeked for someone to stop them from being put to death. Not one of the pleaded for their life. They died for the gospel.

If Jesus didn't take your appoach and the apostles didn't take your appoach, then maybe you should reconsider your appoach. Laying our lives down for Christ is a great honour that you should not try and steal from anyone.

OracleX · Apr 18, 2003

I appreciate your conviction but would like to steer you into a little more truth then what you have.

Please make sure that the 'truth' that you wish to impart on people is the Truth.

nomad · Apr 18, 2003

Please make sure that the 'truth' that you wish to impart on people is the Truth.

Calling someone a liar is also considered slander.  Slander is against the law.  I know more about the truth then you see.  You claim to see and I know that you don't.  You are right about somethings not all of what you do is wrong.

I thank God for you in that because of your sin I have learned much.  When you openly attack me you prevent others from recieving the truth.  You won't recieve the truth yourself and prevent others from recieving it as well.  You stir up arguments and debates for what purpose?

I tell you the truth, you ought to practice what you preach.  I know you won't.  If you were obeying God I'd know it but you don't.  You'll do anything to prove your right.  Well in doing so you tarnish the truth.

As to missing the point you are the one that is missing the point.  You pass judgement without knowing all the facts.

I'm telling you check your intent and motivation.  What ever you say against me is only judgement on yourself.  Know I've told you the truth.  Let God reveal which one of us speaks His word and lives it.

Blessed-one · Apr 18, 2003

*mod hat on*

okok, no more accusation guys, just state your opinions would do well enough. Tune down. I don't want to close this thread so soon....

*mod hat off*

back to the original question, i don't think i'd ever kill anyone even with a good enough reason, if it was a good enough reason. Protecting others with my own life sounds like the way to go.. um, think about the situation though, it would probably be so confusing...
But if God told me to kill though, now that's a different matter, though i wouldn't worry about it unless the thing actually happens.

ukok · Apr 19, 2003

I certainly did not intend to be the instigator of heated argument when I opened this thread with my original question.  I am sad that some of us are unable to see that this is for me, probably and hopefully, only a hypothetical question, but for others who are put in the position of having the option to save a loved one, it is not purely hypothetical.

It saddens me also that Lambslove believes that God will not give us "sitautions too big to handle", when in fact God is not giving us many of the situations in which we may find ourselves.  God does not put a sexual predator in a room with a small child, nor does he fascilitate the slaughter of the innocent.  What he does do however, is to offer us the hope that by our belief in Him, we may know that though our physical lives may end, the story is not ended.

Sin in the hearts of men and women causes almost all of the "situations" that we may find ourselves in.  God bestowed free will upon us so that we may make life choices that befit Christian living, but God also knows that we are still fleshly.

As for your question, Lambslove "Why dwell on this ?", my response would have to be, why not?

Is it not fitting that a Christian consider the way in which he or she would react in all situations ?.  Every parent I know, whether Christian or not, has talked at length, at some point during their parenting, about the possibility of someone harming their child and imagining what their reaction would be, should such an awful situation present itself.  I am not doommongering! 

I thought this was a fairly open discussion board where we as Christians could voice real concerns, not the kind of place where we had to swallow our doubts, hide our questioning, pretend that we could deal with whatever life throws at us.

It's easy to say, with God all things are possible, but you have to understand, that their is more to Christianity than a knowledge of redemption that obliterates all anxiety.  We are still human, with human concerns - ukok

 

psycmajor · Apr 19, 2003

17th April 2003 at 11:40 AM lambslove said this in Post #30

Please don't ever kill anyone to save my life. I believe that God is sovereign and that if He allows me to be killed, then it is my time to go. I go to Heaven, but the attacker would end up in Hell. I'd prefer that he live and be given a chance to hear the gospel and be saved. I'd rather forgive than kill.

That's an interesting perspective, lambslove

. I like it. "Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do."

It's weird the perspectives you have, depending on where you are. The selfish part of me comes out and I want the person to be killed if the person is trying to hurt me, or someone I cared about.

However, sometimes I feel the way you do, but only when the would-be killer has attacked or is attacking a stranger.

In other words, when it's a stranger being hurt, I desire mercy after the fact. But when it's personal, I desire revenge.

I don't understand myself sometimes.

Blessed-one · Apr 19, 2003

We are still human, with human concerns

what an honest answer.

The fact that we're human with human nature conflicts with what God wants for us.

seangoh · Apr 20, 2003

This topic brings to mind 1 cor 10:13 that God would not allow temptations too hard for an individual to bear. That has two implications. One, BIG temptations won't come to us if God knows we can't take it. Two, if we face temptations, He will make sure that we come out of it well and good for our souls IF we respond correctly. There are many evils going on in this world and one good thing i see when ppl have experienced storms in their lives is that they share their victories to someone else who have similar storms. Perhaps this is what encouraging one another is about. Oh no, this is what christian living is about, we need people as much as we need God.

Count me narrow minded, but if a situation ever happens that someone comes in and tries to kill my loved one, then may i humbly allow God to take over into what i should do.

Would you kill to save a loved one ?

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