KJV only?

Ioustinos · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 08:44 AM Jephunneh said this in Post #39

Why then are some so ready to accept changes to God's word in the form of different Bible versions?

Why couldn't people just stick with the Geneva Bible? Or the Bishop's Bible? Why did we need to make another translation that resulted in the KJV? I mean sheesh, why do we want to change God's Word? The Geneva Bible was good enough for the Pilgrims and early Christians so it should be good enough for you and me! Right?

The Authorized King James text has faithfully served the body of Christ for almost 400 years. During this time, and during its translation, Satan has viciously and relentlessly attacked it.

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The Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic has faithfully served God's people for 3500 years! Just think how many people were saved using the Greek and Hebrew compared to the KJV! I mean in the book of Acts we see people being saved by the thousands and all they had was the Greek and Hebrew! Why did we need to go and translate them?

I've heard preachers and lay people say things like, "it's too hard to read" or "it doesn't properly reflect the true meaning of the original Greek". The issue about the original Greek sets my teeth on edge--which Greek, I mean WHICH ONE? There are Greek manuscripts galore.

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I have heard people say "The Greek is too hard to read!" or "I can't read Hebrew!" How lazy these people are The thing about that sets my teeth on edge about these people who don't know how or why we use the Greek or Hebrew manuscripts----WITHOUT THE GREEK OR HEBREW MANUSCRIPTS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A TRANSLATION, SUCH AS THE KJV!

***Please recognize the sarcasm in this post.*****

The point is if you want to understand why we refer back to the Hebrew and Greek and why ANY translation will never be perfect, then STUDY the translation process. Don't just cut and past from you favorite website, but go to your library and get some books on how any document is translated from one language to another. One known authority on the translation process is Dr. Eugene Nida, who has published several books that speak in layman's terms concerning the art and science of translation.

Jephunneh · Apr 12, 2003

The words of the Authorized King James are not laborious to me, they are beautiful and full of God's power.

We must remember that the Bible is a spiritual book and is understandable to those who are led by God's Spirit. It is not possible for the natural man(or unsaved so-called Greek scholars) to understand it [I Corinthians 2:14].

There are Greek manuscripts galore, including the corrupted manuscripts that the Roman Catholic religion uses.

Which "ONES" are you refering to?

"I am the LORD, I change not." Malachi 3:6

Ioustinos · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 01:13 PM Jephunneh said this in Post #42

The words of the Authorized King James are not laborious to me, they are beautiful and full of God's power.

So what? Many think the words found in the NIV, NASB, NKJV, etc are beautiful words and full of God's power.

We must remember that the Bible is a spiritual book and is understandable to those who are led by God's Spirit. It is not possible for the natural man(or unsaved so-called Greek scholars) to understand it [I Corinthians 2:14].

Click to expand...

Your statement shows your deficient understanding of the translation process.

There are Greek manuscripts galore, including the corrupted manuscripts that the Roman Catholic religion uses.

Which "ONES" are you refering to?

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"I am the LORD, I change not." Malachi 3:6 [/B]

Again you have bypassed all my questions and continue with your usual diatribe If you would take the time and actually study the process of translation and READ BOOKS, not websites, about the science of translating languages then you would understand "which ones."

Aaron11 · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 08:44 AM Jephunneh said this in Post #39

God is unchangeable. God's word is unchangeable too. In Matthew 24:35, the Lord Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."

Why then are some so ready to accept changes to God's word in the form of different Bible versions?

The Authorized King James text has faithfully served the body of Christ for almost 400 years. During this time, and during its translation, Satan has viciously and relentlessly attacked it.

I now hear Christians attacking it too!

I've heard preachers and lay people say things like, "it's too hard to read" or "it doesn't properly reflect the true meaning of the original Greek". The issue about the original Greek sets my teeth on edge--which Greek, I mean WHICH ONE? There are Greek manuscripts galore.

Revelation 22:18-19, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Proverbs 30:5-6, Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

 

Wow.  I have alot to tell you.  First of all, you argue that God is unchangable so therefore His words are unchangable.  Then by that same logic, you can not change them into a different language.

Second, you still have not said why the KJV is the best translation.

Third, you say, "There are Greek Manuscripts galore."  This shows your ignorance in the different translations.  Most of the differences in wording are not due to different transcripts, they are due to different translation.

Fourth, Revelation 22:18-19 is talking strictly about Revelation, not about the bible.  This is not debatable.

Lastly, I would like you to think of what words are.  Are words just letters?  Are they sounds you make?  No, words represent concept and idea.  This might be where you are tripping yourself up.

Jephunneh · Apr 13, 2003

God Inspired His Words...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
II Tim 3:16

...by the Holy Ghost

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
II Peter 1:21

and Promised to Preserve Them for Us Today.

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 12:6,7

We are to Speak the Same Thing...

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
I Cor 1:10

...the very words of Jesus Christ.

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words,
even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing...whereof cometh...Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth...
I Tim 6:3-5

We then must study His words to be approved of God.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
II Tim 2:15

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

filosofer · Apr 13, 2003

Today at 05:21 AM Jephunneh said this in Post #45

God Inspired His Words...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
II Tim 3:16

...by the Holy Ghost

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
II Peter 1:21

And, of course, these two passages have as the referents the Old Testament (whether Masoretic or Septuagint is another issue). Thus, these have nothing to do with the New Testament, nor the Greek manuscripts of the NT nor any translation of the NT.

Aaron11 · Apr 13, 2003

good point filosofer.

to jephunneh,

you can read into those scriptures your assumption that they are talking about "the bible", but the fact is, the bible was not "the bible" at that time. if i wanted to get technical, which i see that you wish to, i would show you how you take those verses out of context. if you wish for me to show that, let me know.

Jeffer · Apr 13, 2003

Just what is scripture and what is inspiration or inspired?

Gideon4God · Apr 14, 2003

I'm a KJV mostly, for the N.T.

tulc · Apr 14, 2003

Wouldn't that mean the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic would be the ones God inspired? Wouldn't the translations have to be measured against them? Translations are subject to change because words (like all created things) change, meanings vary. Gods WORD is the unchanging thing not the language used.
tulc(who is being amazingly serious on a beautiful day like this)

filosofer · Apr 15, 2003

Wouldn't that mean the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic would be the ones God inspired? Wouldn't the translations have to be measured against them?

That is exactly the heart of the issue.

Huldrych · Apr 16, 2003

13th April 2003 at 02:21 AM Jephunneh said this in Post #45

God Inspired His Words...

All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
II Tim 3:16

No argument with you there...

...by the Holy Ghost

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
II Peter 1:21

Nor here... (but bear in mind those prophecies were not given in Elizabethan English, and had to be translated--and no translation is totally perfect)

and Promised to Preserve Them for Us Today.

The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Psalm 12:6,7

Amen!

We are to Speak the Same Thing...

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
I Cor 1:10

Here's where we run into problems. If we all are to speak the same thing, then please explain passages like the one below:

Jch ermane euch aber / lieben Brüder / durch den Namen vnsers HErrn Jhesu Christi / das jr allzumal einerley Rede füret / vnd lasset nicht Spaltung vnter euch sein / Sondern haltet fest an einander in einem sinne / vnd in einerley meinung.

Did you get that?

It's the exact same passage quoted above, but from Luther's last edition of his Bible (the 1545). The basic idea is the same, but the exact wording is different, because languages do not express ideas in the exact same way.

Hope you see my point there.

...the very words of Jesus Christ.

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words,
even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
He is proud, knowing nothing...whereof cometh...Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds,
and destitute of the truth...
I Tim 6:3-5

We then must study His words to be approved of God.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.
II Tim 2:15

Now, with "even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ," and "study His words" are you referring to the originals? If so, then we are all in trouble--because there are no original manuscripts of the NT in either Hebrew or Aramaic.

BTW, that word "study" in the Greek has more to do with diligence and labor than academic exercise. It's the same word used in 2. Peter 1:10 for "give diligence." By way of comparison, Luther translated both passages with words for labor (as do the Louis Segond, the Reina-Valera, and the Sagradas Escrituras of 1568). Why the KJV used an academic term in 2. Tim 2:15, I don't know. Are these versions somehow wrong in their differences?

John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I assume from your stance that you consider the King James to be the word of God, and no other. And, with your above quote, it seems you are lumping all those who "reject" the King James Version as being rejected by God.

Well, I guess it's a sad day for those who have no use for the King James, if only because they don't read English--like those who read the Reina-Valera, Louis Segond, Statenvertaling, Zürcher, Luther, and others.

Fortunately, I believe God's grace extends wider than the version of the Bible used. Both among nations, and among people within those nations.

Pfürti,
jth

Jephunneh · Apr 17, 2003

14th April 2003 at 09:31 PM tulc said this in Post #50

Wouldn't that mean the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic would be the ones God inspired? Wouldn't the translations have to be measured against them? Translations are subject to change because words (like all created things) change, meanings vary. Gods WORD is the unchanging thing not the language used.
tulc(who is being amazingly serious on a beautiful day like this)

Unless God oversaw the translations , but then that would mean God was still interested in His words.

But it's just handy for a practical humanist to refer back to a greek text of their choosing.

Ioustinos · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 01:07 PM Jephunneh said this in Post #53

Unless God oversaw the translations , but then that would mean God was still interested in His words.

But it's just handy for a practical humanist to refer back to a greek text of their choosing.

So which translations does God oversee? All or just the one's you like?

Huldrych · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 09:07 AM Jephunneh said this in Post #53

Unless God oversaw the translations , but then that would mean God was still interested in His words.

And how does one qualify that? Whoops, Jesaiah just asked that question (sorry for the redundancy)...

But it's just handy for a practical humanist to refer back to a greek text of their choosing.

I wouldn't knock humanism too much. While I don't care for the humanistic convulsions that transpired during the "Enlightenment" myself, I have to admit that the humanists' interest in Greek literature helped facilitate the biblical scholarship that sparked the various Reformation movements all across Europe.

God can use humanism. Were it otherwise, there very well might have been no King James Bible.

Pfürti
jth

tulc · Apr 17, 2003

The same could be said about the Catholic Church.
tulc(who appreciates the, so far, non-flaming on this thread)

Huldrych · Apr 17, 2003

Today at 06:07 PM tulc said this in Post #56

The same could be said about the Catholic Church.
tulc(who appreciates the, so far, non-flaming on this thread)

Not quite sure I follow you, T. What did you mean (about the Catholic church, not the flaming)?

Pax,
jth

Hector Medina · Apr 19, 2003

KJV is alright.

But its not that good of a Bible its too short.
Missing 8 OT books and other books through it are tooo short.

A

Hector Medina · Apr 19, 2003

KJV is so/so.

Yes the languase is pretty.However,
its not that good of a Bible its too short.
Missing 8 Old Test. books and Daniel is also short,like many othere Bibles are

At the moment I read the New American Bible .

It seems to have modertely good language and all the books with a complete Daniel.

I heard there are Bibles better then NAB out there though.........

In Christ,

Hector

tulc · Apr 20, 2003

Or those Bibles are too long. Either way.
tulc

KJV only?

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