Pagan Rituals

Is Christmas a holiday for christians???

  • UHHHHH ya its the day we celebrate Christs birth

  • NO...it is a PAGAN holiday that denounces Christ

  • I don't celebrate it.

  • Who cares!!! We all have our own convictions!


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GreenEyedLady

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I was wondering about pagan rituals. My long time friend of 10 years has not spoken to me in over 2 months because of this verse.

Jeremiah 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.


She claims that this verse is about christmas trees . We got into a debte over this verse in which I told her that it was reffering to an Ashera Pole. She did not see this. We are not speaking because I told her she is taking the verse out of context which she interprets "me calling her a false witness" Good Lord if everyone who took this out of context was a flase witness....Hell would be full wouln't it??

I would like everyones opinion on this verse and tell me what you think it is reffering to and PROVE with scripture WHY.

Thanks
GEL
 

Jim1

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Dear GreenEyedLady,


I think the prophet is just referring to the foolishness of astrology and the worship of wooden idols in Jeremiah 10:1-5. Here’s an excerpt from a commentary on this passage:
… the prophet here shows that they, and all others that worshipped idols and expected help and relief from them, were brutish and sottish, and had not common sense. (1.) Consider what the idol is that is worshipped. It was a tree cut out of the forest originally. It was fitted up by the hands of the workman, squared, and sawed, and worked into shape; see Isa. 44:12, etc. But, after all, it was but the stock of a tree, fitter to make a gate-post of than any thing else. But, to hide the wood, they deck it with silver and gold, they gild or lacquer it, or they deck it with gold and silver lace, or cloth of tissue. They fasten it to its place, which they themselves have assigned it, with nails and hammers, that it fall not, nor be thrown down, nor stolen away, v. 4. The image is made straight enough, and it cannot be denied but that the workman did his part, for it is upright as the palm-tree (v. 5); it looks stately, and stands up as if it were going to speak to you, but it cannot speak; it is a poor dumb creature; nor can it take one step towards your relief. If there be any occasion for it to shift its place, it must be carried in procession, for it cannot go. Very fitly does the admonition come in here, "Be not afraid of them, any more than of the signs of heaven; be not afraid of incurring their displeasure, for they can do no evil; be not afraid of forfeiting their favour, for neither is it in them to do good. If you think to mend the matter by mending the materials of which the idol is made, you deceive yourselves. Idols of gold and silver are an unworthy to be worshipped as wooden gods.
This commentary is at this address: click here


Sincerely,
Jim
 
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solo66 man

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Of course Christmas is a Christian holiday. Its in the name.
I have heard the argument that we are not commanded to celebrate Christs birthday in the Bible. Are we commanded not
to celebrate Christs birth?
Is it a sin to celebrate our own birthdays?
And as far as the day goes, if we did not know for sure our own
date of birth, would it be a sin to pick a day to celebrate?
The tree is only an ornament, regardless of the past use of it
and its ornaments by the pegans. Do we fall down and worship the tree and pray for fertility? I hope not.
The mistle toe is a different story though. That is the one carry over that originated from peganism. Again part of the fertility game. A kiss under the mistle toe?
 
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GreenEyedLady

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Can anyone give me a little more to go one that what has been posted.
My friend asked a cuople of months ago that she needed a "break" from me. I think it was to aviod comming to my house because she knew there would be a christmas tree, which started the whole dispute in the first place. Anyway, i have not heard from her. Because SHE need the break and i have sent her some off the subject e-mails such as pictures of my kids and stuff with NO response, should i concider this friendship over or wait for the call?????
GEL
 
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GreenEyedLady:

What one must do is to do a study on the usage of trees in the Word of God.

The usages will tell you, that they were never intended to be cut down and dress them all up.

They built with certain trees that were more valuable than others.

They hung humans on trees in order to kill them.

It was a "curse" to be hung on a tree - Galatians 3:13

Our modern day celebrations come from pagan backgrounds. Christmas day itself is the pagan holiday of the winter soltic.

The orniments also represent pagan idols that were representitive of years ago, and the Christians wanted some type of getting together - unity, if you will. So Christians adopted the birth time of Christ and attached it to this pagan holiday.

Jesus Christ was more than likely born in late September. And there are no records within the Word of them celebrating Christ's birthday.

I think your friend is using this verse to point something out to you. Jeremiah 10:3 - "For the customs of the people are vain"

Ask your friend if this is what they meant by using this verse.

Love IN Christ - HErvey
 
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Well, okay then.

Our pastor told us this at Christmas time about the relationship of Christmas traditions to pagan holidays. He said that the reason December 25th was picked for Christmas was because of the pagan holidays, the winter solstice, yes. There were many people who were converting to Christianity then, from being pagans, and when winter solstice came around, they wanted to celebrate. Therefore, the Christian leaders decided they needed something to divert the new Christian's attention from the pagan festivals, they decided on making the celebration of Jesus's birthday then. I'm sure many of the rituals we've come to know today were derived from these pagan holidays, however, that doesn't mean that by having a Christmas tree in our home we are worshiping anyone other than Jesus.

~N~
<><
 
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GreenEyedLady

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I think your friend is using this verse to point something out to you. Jeremiah 10:3 - "For the customs of the people are vain"

What is she trying to tell me??
That we as christians are keeping a tradition that only involves ourselves?? That the whole idea of a tree is for a selfish reason??

Here is the kicker.....She will go to anyone else house if they have a tree but not mine, because she says it will confuse her children.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?!?!?!!
 
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TheBear

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hagiadzo1999,

Your pastor almost got it right. December 25th was assigned as Christ's birthday by Constantine, a one time pagan himself. December 25th had been the date to celibrate the birthday of a pagan sun god. And, although Constantine's conversion still remains questionable to many historians, he used his power as emporer to assign December 25th as the birthday of Christ, as well. Constantine garnered much more power when he merged government with religion.

We could start a whole new thread on the subject of Constantine.


John
 
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MizDoulos

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GreenEyedLady, here's another scholar that has similar views as Matthew Henry submitted by Jim1:

(Jer. 10:4) Idols were often carved from wood and ornamented with gold or silver. Some were molded from clay (Judg. 18:17; Is. 42:17). The context points out the impossibility (vv. 3-5) of such non-existent gods punishing or rewarding humans. (The Mac Arthur Study Bible, p. 1077).

From these two scholars, the passages aren't talking about Christmas trees but the futility of wooden or clay gods. Just another point of view.

Blessings,

Pat
 
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MizDoulos

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GEL, I know what you mean. It's next to impossible in trying to explain biblical issues to someone who is not open to the Word. And it is sad she is not speaking to you over this issue, at least not at this time.

Keep looking up!

Pat
 
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