Daniels vision= USA against Iraq

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Wildfire

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I would like to explore the vision that Daniel had in chapter 8, which is the vision of the RAM AND THE GOAT.

I believe there are similarities with Daniels vision, and what we are currently witnessing between the USA and Iraq.

I will concentrate on the first 7 verses, which is the fury of the GOAT and destruction of the RAM.
Everyone, feel free to post on this subject.

In the third year of the reign of king Belshazar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me, Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.

And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is the providence of Elam, and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of U'lai.

Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and behold there stood before the river a RAM, which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher one came up last.

I saw the RAM pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

And as I was considering, behold, an he GOAT came from the WEST on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.

(pause)

Chapter 8 verse 19-27 give insight to what Daniel saw:

The ram which thou sawest having the two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. (modern Iran and Iraq)

And the rough goat is the king of Grecia (or modern day greece, which has become the western civilization of the USA)

and the great horn that is between his eyes is the FIRST KING.
The first President and founding father of the United States of America is George Washington.

Verse 5 tells us that the GOAT came from the WEST on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground.
Here is the indication of flight.

(return to verse 6)

And he came to the RAM that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.

And I saw him move close unto the RAM and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the RAM and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the RAM to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the RAM out of his hand.

Here we can see that the RAM (or Iraq/Iran) has been overcome and defeated by the GOAT (USA).

The following verses of Daniel 8-12 show us (tragically), that the great horn of the GOAT (USA) is broken.

I will continue writing more on this post.

Wildfire
 

Wildfire

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Daniel Chapter 8 verse 8:

Therefore the he GOAT waxed very GREAT: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones towards the four winds of heaven.

And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceedingly GREAT, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

Yea, he magnified HIMSELF even to the prince of the host, and by him the <<daily sacrifice>> was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

And an host was given him AGAINST the daily sacrifice, by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground, and it practiced and prospered.

verse 22-26 helps explain this:

Now that being broken (the notable horn of the GOAT) wheras four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up OUT OF THE NATION, but not in his power.

We have identified the notable horn being the first president of the USA, which symbolizes the constitution and everything this country is based on: truth, justice, righteousness, honor.

But that will change when the great horn is broken.

Four kingdoms within that nation (USA) will stand up for it, but not in that same power. We already know that there are two parties within our nation that can nominate a president; Republican and Democrat. There are FOUR that stand up for the power.
Does this mean there will be an assination of our current president?
We know that the great horn is the first king, which is George Washington; so what does this mean? That the constitution and foundation of this great nation crumbles, (as indicated by the broken horn) after the RAM is defeated?
quite possibly.

Now, out of ONE of them (the four kingdoms) comes forth a little horn, which waxed EXCEEDINGLY great; but there is a difference between the former great horn and the latter little horn.
This horn, is against God; because we are told that the daily sacrifice is taken away because of him.

What is the daily sacrifice?

Before Jesus Christ was brought to this earth, an animal sacrifice was given unto God, in accordance to the old law. But we know that Jesus replaced the old covenant with the new covenant, which is through him.
The daily sacrifice (I believe) is the worship and prayer of Christ, and the keeping of his testimony and commandments.

Notice that this little horn CASTS THE TRUTH TO THE GROUND, and practised and prospered.

verse 23 tells us more:

And in the latter time of their kingdom (the USA) when the transgressors are come to a full, (or the nation is filled with unrighteousness) a king of fierce countenance and understanding dark sentences shall stand up.

Look out.

And his power shall be MIGHTY, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and holy people.

And through his policy also, shall he cause CRAFT to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by PEACE shall destroy many; he shall also stand up against the prince of princes, but he shall be broken without hand.

Wildfire
 
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Wildfire

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Daniel chapter 8 Verse 13

Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake; HOW LONG shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

What is the sanctuary that is made desolate? The church has always been a place of sanctuary, a place of worship, a place of refuge to Gods children.

And it will be made desolate.
How?

By force, or implemented WORSHIP of the king of fierce countenance, who is that little horn that came out of the four.
Who has understanding of dark sentences.
We know that his power shall be mighty but not by his own power, whose? satan.

Will the churches be made empty? Will christians be made to fear free worship of Christ in those days?

And the daily sacrifice that is taken away (or the free worship of Christ) will last for 6 years and three months, according to verse 14.
(correct me if I am wrong)

That would be one full term of presidency, (four years) plus a second term which would only last two years and three months:
until Christ returns.

Wildfire
 
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Yekcidmij

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"And the rough goat is the king of Grecia (or modern day greece, which has become the western civilization of the USA) "


Not trying to be rude or anything but it looks like you made a big jump by saying that the king of Grecia/modern day greece = USA. I see nothing to support that.

How does George Washington fit into all of this? If, emphasis on if, goat refered to is the USA, and the horn on the goat represents George Washington, how can it be broken and replaced by 4 smaller horns? After all Geroge Wash. is dead and gone.

Just seems to me that your conclusions are a stretch.
 
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valorJ

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Yes, I think they might be a bit of a stretch too. I'm not clear on how George Washington is factored into the equation as the horn. I also don't see how you conclude that our president will get assassinated? For all we know, the goat could be the forces opposed to terrorism, and the ram the force of terrorism. The goat is defeated, 4 others rise up...we could relate this to anything really. But your analysis is just as good as anyone elses. :)
 
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Wildfire

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Thanks for the replies everyone (smile). I want to say first and foremost, that I am not wanting to take anything away from history, or throw absurb thoughts about this great piece of prophecy at anyone. I deeply respect the book of Daniel, and have given subject this much thought.

To answer the questions posted; how is the USA in relation to a modern day greece? well, I spent some time via/ internet looking for a website to help explain this, but unfortunately I could only find college courses teaching the origion of western civilization. So I will try to write for you, what I have read, and if there is a better explanation for this, than what I am giving, I will post a link:

It is agreed by professors/scholars that the United States has been greatly influenced by Greece; the western civilization has adopted many of the ancient studies that have helped shape America into what it is today; through the study of mathematics, art, science, language, culture, and even government. It is in our museums, it is in our classrooms. The western civilization as we know it to be, has adapted the culture of ancient greece.

Our first president or (king) was George Washington. He established the path that this country would take, and the beliefs that he founded are in our first and only constitution, which still stands today: the right of every individual to have the freedom of speech, religion, bear arms, and elect a leader from the people. This great nation is the only nation in the world that has such freedom.

When one speaks of the United states of America, and it's greatest leader, George Washington stands above them all. He is identified with the America/ America is identified with him. Because he was the first president (king) who is still respetced, because he founded this great country.

The constitution is still alive through him.
The currency is still alive through him.
Although he is physically dead, he is alive through the people who uphold the rights and pledge their allegience to this country.

Now, respectfully, Alexander the great has been portrayed as the great horn in this prophecy, and that is fine. I am not wanting to spark anger with anyone over this; what I am saying, is that should this piece of prophecy be closed, because it is agreed upon? When we are told it is for the end of days?

Now, we know that the he GOAT came from the west on the face of the WHOLE EARTH, and TOUCHED NOT THE GROUND; and the GOAT had a NOTABLE HORN between his eyes.

For arguments sake; did Alexander the great do this? Did he come from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touch not the ground?
This immediately signifies high speed air travel, to me. War aircraft. We know that the he GOAT was coming at the RAM with choler (anger/fury) and noone could deliver the RAM out of his hand.

Now, the notable horn that is between the GOATS eyes is the first king. This is important, because it tells us that this goat HAS the horn of the first king, but is not that first king. (George Washington/founding father)

And when the RAM is destroyed, the he GOATs' horn is broken.
Now, (if) this horn is the first king (symbolic George Washington) then we know that the constitution and foundation of the Unites States is broken.

And this is when the four notable ones come up within the nation, for the power; but it is given to a little horn, but not in the same power. (as before)

This is when he waxes EXCEEDINGLY GREAT. And destroys the mighty and holy people.

I realize this is probably unrealistic to many, but it is what I feel to be true.

Thanks, Wildfire
 
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Wildfire

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I wanted to refresh this topic, since we have seen the dominance of the USA in Iraq; having conquered the country and abolished the former Iraq' leaders from their position of power.
In such a short time, we have witnessed an important piece of prophecy. It is happening right before our eyes!

Things are shifting quickly, between countries and their leaders. Does anyone else feel the change of events as we are being tipped headfirst into the final days of this world?

I will write more.
Wildfire
 
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I agree with most historians in the interpretation of the goat as Alexander the great.&nbsp; There are two places where I see the USA being in prophecy, possibly.&nbsp; One place is in a verse that talks about Jews being rescued on the wings of a great eagle.&nbsp; The second place is that the USA could comprise part or all of the ships of Chittim(western coastlands), or be part of the young lions.
 
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Wildfire

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I never said that america hates christians and jews; I said that prophecy is being fufilled currently through the vision of Daniel of the last days.
Notice that the goat (after stamping the ram) is broken.
This is when the goat (United States) shall change.

We are told by Jesus to watch; God tells us (warns us) that this will happen. I am not changing anyones words; I am putting it out on the table for others to see, that is why I am here.

As I posted earlier; I could not find anything on the internet (searched again) for websites showing Greece influence in America (without being directed to college courses). I did however happen to find someone who had this subject already on a website:

http://bibleprophecy.net/dan8-us.htm

While many may argue that Alexander the great fufilled this prophecy, the angel of the Lord clearly tells us it is for the end days.

Please follow the link, and realize what is happening in the world, was written by the prophets and we are seeing it unfold.

Wildfire
 
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ZiSunka

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Just because some preacher says something, doesn't make it true. There is nothing that I can see that connects the Biblical Grecia to the US other than the weak assocation of "world culture hub." At one time Brittain would have filled that bill, as would have Rome, etc. I believe if it specifically says Grecia, it means Grecia unless there is a strong reason to believe otherwise. You haven't provided a strong reason.

No offense, the evidence just isn't there.

If you've got something more convincing, I'll be happy to change my opinion.
 
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Wildfire

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what preacher? I posted a link to that website because it was something I had found yesterday... because someone had asked for "more info" about America being Greece/western civilization. When I posted this subject a couple of weeks ago, I had no "research" other than what is written in the bible. I am not here to "convince" anyone of what I have written; thats up to each of you. What I am doing is putting two and two together and saying; hey everyone, look at this!

So according to the prophecy of Daniel; Persia (Iran) is next to be stomped. I guess we'll see.
 
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Here is how I see it.&nbsp; There are a total of 7 kingdoms(post flood)&nbsp;that will exist on the earth, prior to antichrist's 8th kingdom of the end days.&nbsp; When Revelation was penned in 96AD, this was written;

Rev17:9 "This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. <SUP>10</SUP>They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. <SUP>11</SUP>The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
<SUP>12</SUP>"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. <SUP>13</SUP>They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.

The mountains are kingdoms, and each has a prominent king.&nbsp; In 96AD, five had fallen.&nbsp; They are;

Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece

One kingdom "IS" existing during the writing of Revelation and it is Rome.&nbsp; There remained at that time, one kingdom yet to come, before antichrist would rule.&nbsp; The last kingdom will be short, as a matter of fact, it will last 1 hour.&nbsp; This kingdom will have 10 kings.&nbsp; The antichrist will come from one of the 5 previously fallen kingdoms, as it is said of him;<SUP>11</SUP>The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. So the beast, was prior to 96AD, is not during 96AD, and is the coming 8th king, and is of the seven(total kings).&nbsp; Therefore, the beast must come from either Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, or Greece.

&nbsp;

Let's take a look at Daniel's vision on the matter;

Dan2:<SUP>31</SUP> "You looked, O king, and there before you stood a large statue-an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance. <SUP>32</SUP> The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, <SUP>33</SUP> its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay. <SUP>34</SUP> While you were watching, a rock was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them. <SUP>35</SUP> Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were broken to pieces at the same time and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the rock that struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.
<SUP>36</SUP> "This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. <SUP>37</SUP> You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; <SUP>38</SUP> in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.
<SUP>39</SUP> "After you, another kingdom will rise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth. <SUP>40</SUP> Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron-for iron breaks and smashes everything-and as iron breaks things to pieces, so it will crush and break all the others. <SUP>41</SUP> Just as you saw that the feet and toes were partly of baked clay and partly of iron, so this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the strength of iron in it, even as you saw iron mixed with clay. <SUP>42</SUP> As the toes were partly iron and partly clay, so this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. <SUP>43</SUP> And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.&nbsp;
&nbsp;


In Nebuchadnezzar's vision, he is the head of gold, and that is where the counting of the kingdoms in the book of Daniel begins, with the kingdom of Babylon.

So, we exclude Egypt and Assyria, and start with Babylon.

Babylon- head of gold

Medo-Persia-chest and arms of silver

Greece-belly and thighs of bronze

Now we come to the legs, feet, and toes.&nbsp; Some say that Rome was the legs of iron.&nbsp; I don't necessarily agree.&nbsp; I think that just as Egypt and Assyria were left out of the equation, so is Rome, except for the mention by John in Revelation of " one IS".&nbsp; The legs of iron may have been Rome, or they may be now, or yet to come.&nbsp; Regardless, the 10 toes on which the legs stand, is the 10 king kingdom(the seventh&nbsp;kingdom in Revelation)&nbsp;that lasts one hour, and gives their power to the beast.

As for the four beasts in Daniel 7, they are kingdoms on earth at the time of the tribulation, and I am pretty much in agreement with Ephod, as to their names.&nbsp; We know that they exist at the time of antichrist because it is written;

<SUP>11</SUP> "Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. <SUP>12</SUP> (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.)

These are the sheep nations judged at the physical coming of the Lord after Armageddon in Matthew 25.

The following verses describe the judgement seat of Christ at the end of the 1260 days, prior to the 7 vials of wrath, and prior to Armageddon;

&nbsp;"As I looked,

"thrones were set in place,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat.
His clothing was as white as snow;
the hair of his head was white like wool.
His throne was flaming with fire,
and its wheels were all ablaze.
<SUP>10</SUP> A river of fire was flowing,
coming out from before him.
Thousands upon thousands attended him;
ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The court was seated,
and the books were opened.


What is described above is described by Paul in 1Cor3;

<SUP>12</SUP>If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, <SUP>13</SUP>his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. <SUP>14</SUP>If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. <SUP>15</SUP>If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

This judgement is for BELIEVERS that have come out of great tribulation.


The timeline of endtime events is described in Daniel 12;

<SUP>11</SUP> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. <SUP>12</SUP> Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.

The abomination of desolation is set up and the 1260 count begins.&nbsp; These 1260 days end with the 7th trumpet.&nbsp; The next 30 day period is the days of the 7 vials of wrath.&nbsp; The next 45 days is the battle of Armageddon, and ends with the Lord coming to judge the nations.&nbsp; There is a 150 day period of the locusts in Revelation.&nbsp; It begins at day 1185 from the setting up of the AoD and continues until day 1335.&nbsp; This 150 day period is called "great tribulation".&nbsp;

&nbsp;

As far as believers are concerned, I believe the following to be true.

At the beginning of the tribulation period, in Revelation 12, a man child is caught up.&nbsp; This man child is the 144000 who are before the throne.&nbsp; They are exceptional believers who have attained the prize that Paul so frequently spoke of.

The remainder of believers go through the tribulation.&nbsp; All except the believers who take the mark of the beast, and those who were in the 144000, are gathered up at the 7th trump around day 1260, having come out of great tribulation.&nbsp; These are the virgins, wise and foolish in the parable.&nbsp; The wise will be guests at the wedding and the foolish shall be in the darkness outside for the duration of the 1000 year kingdom.

Those&nbsp;who take the mark of the beast will be left on earth to suffer the 7 vials of wrath, and will not partake of the milennial kingdom, or wedding feast, will suffer 1000 years in hell, but will be saved from eternal damnation at the great white throne.&nbsp; Those who are believers that did not take the mark of the beast will not be judged at the great white throne, they were judged at the bema seat, 1000 years earlier.&nbsp; The book of life is brought out at the great white throne for the benefit of those who were once born again, but, for whatever reason, spent the previous 1000 years in hell.

&nbsp;
 
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