Can Jews have Salvaion without Christ?

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SumTinWong

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Umm ...

Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no other One; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Luk 19:9-10 And Jesus said to him, This day salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.

Joh 4:22 You worship what you do not know, we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.

Romans 11:26-27 And so all Israel shall be saved; as it is written, "There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob. 27 For this is My covenant with them, when I have taken away their sins."

No they cannot in my opinion. there is only one way and that is jesus
 
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Servant of the Kingdom

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Yes they can. Jesus is more than a name.

Mat 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty.
Mat 25:32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee?
Mat 25:40 And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
Mat 25:41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink.
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me.
Mat 25:44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee?
Mat 25:45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.
 
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daveleau

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Looking at the Scripture above, it depends on who you mean by Jews. Do you mean the Jewish people or followers of the Jewish religion.

If a Jew follows Jesus, then YES he can be saved.
If a Jew does not follow Jesus, then NO he will not be saved, unless he changes his ways.

Lollard gave the examples to show this, but assumed you meant those in the Jewish religion.
These are the ways set down by God through Jesus. Note, though, that it is prophesied that Jerusalem will become the capital of the world and that salvation will return to the Jews one day. This is all in Daniel, Matthew and Revelations. So, some day, Jews will again be given the gift. I do not know the contingencies that will come with this salvation (will they still have to believe in Jesus or will Jesus be ruling from Jerusalem at that time or...???) I have not studied the end times enough to know exactly.
 
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duster1az

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Bulldog said:
I found it to be an interesting question. WHat do you think? (scriptual answers, please)
"...Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she will bring forth a son, and thou shall call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matthew 1:20-21).

In Christ,
Tracey
 
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12volt_man

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romania_is_da_best said:
Yes they can. Jesus is more than a name.

Mat 25:31 And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty.
Mat 25:32 And all nations shall be gathered together before him: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink: I was a stranger, and you took me in:
Mat 25:36 Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry and fed thee: thirsty and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 Or when did we see thee a stranger and took thee in? Or naked and covered thee?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see thee sick or in prison and came to thee?
Mat 25:40 And the king answering shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.
Mat 25:41 Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty and you gave me not to drink.
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you took me not in: naked and you covered me not: sick and in prison and you did not visit me.
Mat 25:44 Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to thee?
Mat 25:45 Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen: I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.

You do understand that this passage isn't advocating salvation by works, don't you?

Remember that, in this passage, Jesus was talking to His followers (who are presumably already saved) and explaining acts of charity that come as a result of salvation, not to cause it.
 
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Curt

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This does away with seperation of Christians, and Jews. There are only Jew/Christians.

John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
(KJV)

Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
(KJV)
 
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Curt

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duster1az said:
Curt writes:


What do we call the physical descendants of Abraham, particularly those who came through Isaac and Jacob, who are outside of the Church?

In Christ,
Tracey

It's not outside the church, it's outside of Christ, they are lost unless they accept Christ. Nationality has nothing to do with who the true Jews are. We are all the same other than the country we came from.
 
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@@Paul@@

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Curt said:
It's not outside the church, it's outside of Christ, they are lost unless they accept Christ. Nationality has nothing to do with who the true Jews are. We are all the same other than the country we came from.

Some day it will matter.

Rom 11:26-29 KJV
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
(29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​
Why would Paul call them "enemies concerning the gospel" just after he said they will all be saved?

And just who does "all Israel" consist of:
Rom 9:6-8 KJV
(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.​


Personally i think this is to be taken literally, "All Israel" will be saved, whether enemies of the gospel of not, they all ALL beloved.
 
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Curt

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@@Paul@@ said:
Some day it will matter.

Rom 11:26-29 KJV
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(27) For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
(28) As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
(29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.​
Why would Paul call them "enemies concerning the gospel" just after he said they will all be saved?

And just who does "all Israel" consist of:
Rom 9:6-8 KJV
(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.​


Personally i think this is to be taken literally, "All Israel" will be saved, whether enemies of the gospel of not, they all ALL beloved.


This is who Israel is There is no seperation of any nationality in the promises of God.

Acts 2:39
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
(KJV)

Gal 4:28
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
(KJV)

John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
(KJV)
 
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duster1az

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Curt said:
It's not outside the church, it's outside of Christ, they are lost unless they accept Christ. Nationality has nothing to do with who the true Jews are. We are all the same other than the country we came from.
There has always been a believing remnant among the Jew. In this age that Jewish remnant is included in the Church, who's position is "in Christ." I do not agree with your assertion that nationality has nothing to do with who is a true Jew. I know for certain that although I've been born from above and blessed along with faithfull Abraham I've no right to the covenants made with national Israel.

Even though you make no distinction between people, Paul does. "Give no offense either to Jews or to Greeks or to the Church of God" (1 Cor. 10:32). The same three groups are discussed in (Eph. 2:11-16), where he speaks of Gentiles, Israel, and the "one new man," which is the Church.

From what I've witnessed in this forum you tend to be critical of dispensational theology through a hit and run approach. Instead, why not present your own theological viewpoint and allow others to draw their own conclusions as to which has merit.

In Christ,
Tracey
 
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guitargeek

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Curt said:
Jesus answers that question, and when He says no man that means no man.
John 14:6
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
(KJV)


That says it all right there. That's the verse I always quote whenever someone tries to tell me that non-christians can get into heaven (when discussing muslims and the like).
 
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Yitzchak

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There is a passage in 1 corinthians 10 which says the rock which israel drank from in the wilderness was christ. this to me sets the scriptural precedent that people can partake of christ without specifically knowing it is Christ. of course they were following the one true God in faith and God took care of the details. All the old testament saints (moses and elijah on the mount of transfiguration , for example) found salvation before christ came.
I see no reason to limit this top just the timeline. Meaning those who were before Christ. but also extend it to situations which call for it in our day.
 
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TugOwar

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Yitzchak said:
There is a passage in 1 corinthians 10 which says the rock which israel drank from in the wilderness was christ. this to me sets the scriptural precedent that people can partake of christ without specifically knowing it is Christ. of course they were following the one true God in faith and God took care of the details. All the old testament saints (moses and elijah on the mount of transfiguration , for example) found salvation before christ came.
I see no reason to limit this top just the timeline. Meaning those who were before Christ. but also extend it to situations which call for it in our day.

The difference is that Christ was revealed to all 2000 years ago.
 
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christian-only

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(Mat 3:9 KJV) And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

(John 8:24 KJV) I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

(Mark 16:16 KJV) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be d@mned.
 
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