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Old "cave art" in Wales brought to light

jasperr

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An interesting finding that previously considered "natural" marks on the rocks have quite recently been adjudged as man made, -indicating human settlements (apparently not settled but seasonally nomadic) in the West of the British Isles (as they are now)

Apparently the ice was very thick and the Bristol Channel was not then filled with water.

I heard this being discussed on BBC 5 Live last night and there are a few articles published, eg


I think this pushes back the date of human presence in those parts (and Europe) back a few years with even earlier dates possible from the same site using additional methods of determination.

Edit: perhaps better discussed in the History and Genealogy subforum?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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CYMRU MENTIONED!!

But yeah that is very interesting. Though I will admit that it is somewhat hard to make out in the picture given. They could have... I don't know, super imposed lines over it to show it more clearly.

Also, the modern graffiti over the cave wall really grinds my gears.
 
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Ophiolite

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Also, the modern graffiti over the cave wall really grinds my gears.
In 10,000 years they will be protected as well and experts will debate as to whether they may have been early efforts by Banksy, or possibly his contemporary Michael Angelo.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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In 10,000 years they will be protected as well and experts will debate as to whether they may have been early efforts by Banksy, or possibly his contemporary Michael Angelo.

That feels like a Futurama skit. I love it.
 
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Gene2memE

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I think this pushes back the date of human presence in those parts (and Europe) back a few years with even earlier dates possible from the same site using additional methods of determination.

17,000 years? No. We've known for about 20 or 30 years that humans have been in Wales for (at least) 60,000 years. Longer if you include archaic humans like Neanderthals. They reached and settled in Wales at least 200,000 years ago.

The Red Lady of Paviland its one of the more famous Homo sapiens remains from Wales, and that dates to about 33-34,000 before present.
 
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jasperr

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17,000 years? No. We've known for about 20 or 30 years that humans have been in Wales for (at least) 60,000 years. Longer if you include archaic humans like Neanderthals. They reached and settled in Wales at least 200,000 years ago.

The Red Lady of Paviland its one of the more famous Homo sapiens remains from Wales, and that dates to about 33-34,000 before present.
I must have misunderstood.

On re-reading, the BBC article states that the 17,000 years applies to the oldest known date for rock art in NW Europe .

I had understood it to refer to human presence which may well have been detected as far back as you say.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I must have misunderstood.

On re-reading, the BBC article states that the 17,000 years applies to the oldest known date for rock art in NW Europe .

I had understood it to refer to human presence which may well have been detected as far back as you say.

Key part of the phrase is "oldest in NW (North-West) Europe". As @Gene2memE pointed out, there is a lot of evidence to show that humans have existed in North-West Europe, specifically Wales itself (since this country doesn't get enough positive news), for substantially longer.

It is very interesting that there's been no cave paintings from before the 17,000 year mark found though.
 
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