The two witnesses

keras · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
It does not say "treaty" in Daniel 9:27, but "the covenant".

A modern Bible says; league or treaty. Basically the same as covenant, like any agreement between two participants.

Douggg said:
It does not say "mid-point" in Daniel 9:27, but "in the midst of the week".

No doubt; you are a comedian.
That the 70th 'week' of Daniel 9:27, is divide into 2 exact halves, is proved by the many mentions of the second half being exactly half of it.

Douggg said:
What ? The leader of the rest of the world ? Who then is going to be leader of Israel at that time, when he comes to Jerusalem ?

The new citizens of Beulah, in all of the Holy Land, will elect their own leader; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

Douggg · May 29, 2026

keras said:
A modern Bible says; league or treaty. Basically the same as covenant, like any agreement between two participants.

What covenant was Daniel referring to Daniel 9:4 ? Daniel was confessing that his people had broke that covenant.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The for one week (7 years) cycle is in Deuteronomy 31:10.

Douggg · May 29, 2026

keras said:
The new citizens of Beulah, in all of the Holy Land, will elect their own leader; Hosea 1:11, Jeremiah 30:21

Is that leader going to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as Moses directed in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel ?

Jan001 · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
About 1260 days ? 1260 days is an exact number. There are estimates as to how long Jesus's ministry lasted before being crucified. But not to the precision of the exact number of days.

The 1260 days of Revelation 11:3 applies to the two witlessness's prophesying and testifying.

Do you see any odd numbers used in prophecy? If you do, please inform me as I can't recall any.

Douggg · May 29, 2026

Jan001 said:
Do you see any odd numbers used in prophecy? If you do, please inform me as I can't recall any.

There are fifteen end times time frames given in the bible. In order, as they appear in the bible.... (notice that they come from only three books in the bible - Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation)

7 years - Ezekiel 39:9

7 months - Ezekiel 39:12

time, times, half time - Daniel 7:25

2300 days - Daniel 8:14

7 years - Daniel 9:27

time, times, half time - Daniel 12:14

1290 dayys - Daniel 12:11

1335 days - Daniel 12:11

5 months - Revelation 9:10

42 months - Revelation 11:2

1260 days - Revelation 11:3

3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11

1260 days - Revelation 12:6

time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14

42 months - Revelation 13:5

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Next all you got to do is organize them. Or just go by my chart....

Douggg · May 29, 2026

Here are the times frames given in the old testament...

Douggg · May 29, 2026

Here are the time frames given in Revelation...

keras · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
Is that leader going to confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as Moses directed in Deuteronomy 31:9-13 of all future leaders of Israel ?

NO: for two indisputable reasons:
1/ The directive in Deut 31, was to have the Law read to the Israelites every 7 years. If you hadn't noticed; Jesus came and superseded the old Law.

2/ In Deuteronomy 31, this was an agreement between God and the people. The Daniel 9:27 agreement will be between the leader of the World Govt and the peoples who will be present in all of the Holy Land, after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed it.

The Dispensational theory of the Church being raptured to heaven and the Jews facing tribulation, is totally discredited by many scriptures.
Your constant posting of error filled charts is just a waste of space.

Douggg · May 29, 2026

keras said:
2/ In Daniel 31, this was an agreement between God and the people. The Daniel 9:27 agreement will be between the leader of the World Govt and the peoples who will be present in all of the Holy Land, after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed it.

Daniel 31 ?

keras, look at these two verses. The covenant in both verses is the Mt. Sinai covenant. The prince that shall come, the Antichrist, as the Jews' thought-to-be messiah, will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant - following the method of confirming that Moses spoke about in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The Antichrist will be the King of Israel, thought to be messiah..... ("Anti")..... the True messiah, and the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

WilliamLhk · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant

The Hebrew text says "a covenant," not "the covenant."

Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically?

Here is some of the historical viewʼs evidence, showing that Daniel 9:26b-27ʼs seven specific prophecies have already been fulfilled:

1-2) Vespasian, a widely-revered Roman military commander, arrived in the Holy Land in early 67 A.D. Emperor Nero had sent him to quell a revolt begun in 66 by many of the Jews against their corrupt Roman overlords. Vespasian established (caused) these two Roman policies for the duration of the Jewish War of 66/67-73:

I) Any Jew who peacefully re-submitted to Romeʼs authority was to be spared, and be allowed to live in peace. See #4 below.

II) Any Jew who continued to resist that authority was to be ruthlessly subdued. In the Spring, Vespasian, accompanied by his son Titus, three legions, and auxiliary troops altogether amounting to more than 60,000 men, began to war against the rebels in Galilee.

1, 3) Vespasianʼs policy #II ultimately caused the Roman army to destroy both Jerusalem and its Sanctuary, because the Jewish rebels continued to use both places as fortresses of defense.

4) Vespasian, by means of his policy #I, made covenants of peace with a number of important non-resisting cities. Essentially, he was merely “confirming” Romeʼs original covenant with the Jews, which allowed them – uniquely among the peoples of the Empire – to practice only their own mono-theistic religion, provided that they submitted to Roman civil authority.

According to the record by Josephus,

The Jewish War, Whiston version; Preface 8: [Vespasian] took …some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.

III:2:4 …the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…

III:9:8 Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…

5) Right about 3½ years/1260 days after Vespasianʼs “com-ing in” to the land, blood sacrifice [זֶבַח] ceased in the Temple on Tammuz 17 = July 15, 70 A.D. This was a consequence of the Roman armyʼs siege and warfare against Jerusalem, which had caused severe famine and great loss of life.

VI:2:1 …on that very day, which was the seventeenth day of Panemus, [Tamuz,] the sacrifice called “the Daily Sacrifice” had failed, and had not been offered to God, for want of men to offer it, and that the people were grievously troubled at it…

45. Daniel 9:24-27 Examined, Part 7: Were Verses 26b-27 Fulfilled Historically? Tests the view that the seven prophesied events were fulfilled during the Jewish War of 66-73 A.D. Also, explains the reason for the time-gap between the 69th and 70th weeks. https://worthychristianforums.com/b...-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/

Spiritual Jew · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
No, the 1260 days is the first half of the 7 years. Not just before Jesus returns. Verse 10 does not fit the conditions that the world will be in right before Jesus returns - at the end of the great tribulation.

Revelation 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

That actually seems much like the conditions of the world right before Jesus returns according to what Jesus Himself said. He said it would be like the days of Noah before His return and in the days of Noah people were going about their normal business as usual, getting married, eating and drinking and having a good time and then the next thing they knew the flood came and killed them all (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). It also lines up with Paul saying that unbelievers would be saying "peace and safety" right before Jesus returns, but then unexpected "sudden destruction" will come upon them from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).

keras · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
Daniel 31 ?

keras, look at these two verses. The covenant in both verses is the Mt. Sinai covenant. The prince that shall come, the Antichrist, as the Jews' thought-to-be messiah, will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant - following the method of confirming that Moses spoke about in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The Antichrist will be the King of Israel, thought to be messiah..... ("Anti")..... the True messiah, and the rightful King of Israel - Jesus.

Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This spiel is entirely your own personal beliefs about the end times.
You have simply avoided the two points that prove you wrong. The Law of Moses is done away with and the agreement in Dan 9:27, is between 2 human entities.

WilliamLhk said:
Here is some of the historical viewʼs evidence, showing that Daniel 9:26b-27ʼs seven specific prophecies have already been fulfilled:

A past fulfilment of Daniel 9:27, is impossible for many reasons.
Preterism is just a way to avoid the possibility of bad things happening to yourself.

keras · May 29, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
That actually seems much like the conditions of the world right before Jesus returns according to what Jesus Himself said. He said it would be like the days of Noah before His return and in the days of Noah people were going about their normal business as usual, getting married, eating and drinking and having a good time and then the next thing they knew the flood came and killed them all (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). It also lines up with Paul saying that unbelievers would be saying "peace and safety" right before Jesus returns, but then unexpected "sudden destruction" will come upon them from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).

It is plain from Bible Prophecy, that people will not be going about normal life during the final period before Jesus Returns.
What Paul says in 1 Thess 5, is our situation now, - very soon when a settlement is made with Iran. But those Muslim liars will keep enough HEU to make at least one nuke and will attempt to fire it at Israel. THEN the Lord will act to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14. Psalms 83. 2 Peter 3:7, +

Douggg · May 29, 2026

keras said:
This spiel is entirely your own personal beliefs about the end times.
You have simply avoided the two points that prove you wrong. The Law of Moses is done away with and the agreement in Dan 9:27, is between 2 human entities.

Go talk to any Jew who's religion is Judaism. They go by the Law of Moses.

And they are looking for, expecting, their King of Israel messiah.

The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Daniel's people are the Jews.

Douggg · May 29, 2026

Spiritual Jew said:
That actually seems much like the conditions of the world right before Jesus returns according to what Jesus Himself said. He said it would be like the days of Noah before His return and in the days of Noah people were going about their normal business as usual, getting married, eating and drinking and having a good time and then the next thing they knew the flood came and killed them all (Matthew 24:35-39, Luke 17:26-30). It also lines up with Paul saying that unbelievers would be saying "peace and safety" right before Jesus returns, but then unexpected "sudden destruction" will come upon them from which "they shall not escape" (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).

The saying "peace and safety" will be in the initial portion of the first half of the seven years.

The false sense of peace and safety will be because of the false messianic age begun when the Antichrist is anointed the King of Israel thought-to be messiah.

That delusion of peace and safety will be shattered when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, and claims to have achieved God-hood (2Thessalonians2:4).

keras · May 29, 2026

Douggg said:
Go talk to any Jew who's religion is Judaism. They go by the Law of Moses.

And they are looking for, expecting, their King of Israel messiah.

The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 are determined upon Daniel's people and Jerusalem. Daniel's people are the Jews.

Netanyahu isn't expecting any such thing. Or most of the Israeli's.
Do Messianic Jews believe it? Zechariah 13:14....just the remaining Jewish families, will look upon Him. As Prophesied in Isaiah 6:11-13, 29:1-4, Romans 9:27, +

Daniels people are every God fearing faithful person, since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all.

Douggg said:
The saying "peace and safety" will be in the initial portion of the first half of the seven years.

Your opinion, which takes no notice of the given sequence of the end time events, as listed in Revelation. You have no qualms about shuffling it.
The 7 Seals come first, then after Satan desecrates the Temple, Revelation 13:1-17, - the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. culminating with Armageddon, the 6th & 7th Bowls.

Where do you place Psalms 83? That vivid Prophecy can only be the next event, which has to be the Sixth Seal.

Douggg · May 29, 2026

keras said:
Netanyahu isn't expecting any such thing. Or most of the Israeli's.
Do Messianic Jews believe it? Zechariah 13:14....just the remaining Jewish families, will look upon Him. As Prophesied in Isaiah 6:11-13, 29:1-4, Romans 9:27, +

keras, the Jews, most of whom follow the Law of Moses in the religion of Judaism, are looking for the soon coming of their King of Israel messiah - someone they believe other than Jesus.

Netanyahu is secular, but most Jews in Israel are not.

keras said:
Daniels people are every God fearing faithful person, since Jesus came and offered Salvation to all.

No, Daniel 9 has not changed. Daniel's people are Jews by birth.

keras said:
The 7 Seals come first, then after Satan desecrates the Temple, Revelation 13:1-17, - the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. culminating with Armageddon, the 6th & 7th Bowls.

keras, the issue is when is the saying of "peace and safety" takes place and why ? Not when the great tribulation takes place.

keras said:
Where do you place Psalms 83? That vivid Prophecy can only be the next event, which has to be the Sixth Seal.

The Psalms 83 attack on Israel will be the Gog/Magog event.

Psalms 83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

Jan001 · May 30, 2026

Douggg said:
There are fifteen end times time frames given the bible. In order, as they appear in the bible.... (notice that they come from only three books in the bible - Ezekiel, Daniel, Revelation)

7 years - Ezekiel 39:9

7 months - Ezekiel 39:12

time, times, half time - Daniel 7:25

2300 days - Daniel 8:14

7 years - Daniel 9:27

time, times, half time - Daniel 12:14

1290 dayys - Daniel 12:11

1335 days - Daniel 12:11

5 months - Revelation 9:10

42 months - Revelation 11:2

1260 days - Revelation 11:3

3 1/2 days - Revelation 11:11

1260 days - Revelation 12:6

time, times, half time - Revelation 12:14

42 months - Revelation 13:5

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next all you got to do is organize them. Or just go by my chart....

View attachment 379878

Thanks for the examples!

Daniel's prophecy foretold the desecration of the future second temple by Antiochus IV Epiphanes, which the Maccabees later purified and rededicated. 2 Maccabees 10:5-7
The Festival of Dedication/Chanukah memorializes this event. John 10:22

Daniel also prophesied the destruction of this second temple by the Romans, which occurred in 70 AD. Daniel 9:24, Daniel 9:25

I do think Daniel's prophecy was fulfilled in the first century AD. Jesus said that the Roman armies would be the "desolating presence" in the "holy place," meaning Jerusalem. Matthew 24:15, Luke 21:20, Luke 19:41-44

Spiritual Jew · May 30, 2026

keras said:
It is plain from Bible Prophecy, that people will not be going about normal life during the final period before Jesus Returns.

No, it isn't, as I showed. But, you don't have enough discernment to understand that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 and Matthew 24:35-39 are passages about His return.

keras said:
What Paul says in 1 Thess 5, is our situation now, - very soon when a settlement is made with Iran. But those Muslim liars will keep enough HEU to make at least one nuke and will attempt to fire it at Israel. THEN the Lord will act to destroy them all. Ezekiel 7:14. Psalms 83. 2 Peter 3:7, +

No, it's the situation that will be right before the Lord returns when He burns up the earth, which is why Paul said about that same event that "sudden destruction" will come upon unbelievers at that time, when Jesus comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night, from which "they shall not escape". No unbeliever can escape fire coming down upon the entire earth.

Spiritual Jew · May 30, 2026

Douggg said:
The saying "peace and safety" will be in the initial portion of the first half of the seven years.

That's nonsense, but also besides the point. The point is that they will be saying peace and safety right up until Jesus comes unexpectedly as a thief in the night on the day of the Lord and then He will bring "sudden destruction" upon unbelievers from which "they shall not escape". The act that will put an end to them saying "peace and safety" is the return of Christ when He takes vengeance on them (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10) and that is what 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is describing.

The two witnesses

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Striving to win the prize...

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Amillennialist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Striving to win the prize...

Amillennialist

Amillennialist

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