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Jan, your analogy assumes salvation is an object we maintain. But Scripture says salvation is a work God performs and completes.
There isn't any sin that you have personally committed that is too great to be forgiven. All of the apostles abandoned Jesus after he was taken into custody. Mark 14:50
I believe its the mental illness which spawns this dark shadow. I hope so anyway. I will think about good things like the apostle Paul said. I will rejoice even in sorrow or mental affliction.
Salvation is a work God performs and completes if we cooperate with his Holy Spirit of grace in obedience until we die. Philippians 2:8
Romans 11:6 shows that the Christian's initial salvation was a gift from God. He could not earn this salvation for himself by doing any good work of his own.
This reply confirms the very point I raised. You said salvation is something God ""performs and completes if we cooperate,"" & that it is ""preserved when we cooperate."" That means, in your system, salvation ultimately depends on your performance, not God’s finished work. Paul says the exact opposite: ""If it is by grace, it is no longer by works; otherwise grace is no longer grace"" (Rom 11:6). By grace thru faith & not by works (Eph 2:8-9) You cannot claim salvation is ""by grace"" and then make its preservation depend on your obedience. That's not grace > that's wages (Rom 4:4–5).
Perhaps your understanding of grace, faith, righteous works, works of the Law of Moses, and "God's finished work" is not correct.
What does "believes in him" actually mean?
People may think its all fun and prosperity but Jesus said it was difficult.This is called "striving to enter into eternal life through the narrow gate." Luke 13:23-27, Luke 9:23
The warning passages raised in objection: Israel's wilderness judgments (1 Cor 10:1–12), loss of inheritance for works of the flesh (Gal 5:19–21), being led astray doctrinally (2 Pet 3:17) & Sodom as an example of judgment (Jude 1:7). All concern discipline, consequences, or loss of reward (1 Cor 3:11-15), not the undoing of justification. None of them overturn Paul's explicit teaching that salvation is ""by grace - not by works"" (Eph 2:8–9) The core issue is simple: warnings do not redefine salvation. Grace remains grace only when God's saving work is the cause & human obedience is the fruit & not the condition or the preservation mechanism.Perhaps your understanding of grace, faith, righteous works, works of the Law of Moses, and "God's finished work" is not correct.
Was Paul lying when he warned the Christians in Corinth and Galatia that they would fall from grace if they practiced sexual immorality?
1 Corinthians 10:1-12
Brothers and sisters, I want you to be sure of the fact that our ancestors were all under the cloud and they all went through the sea. 2 All were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 All ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. They drank from a spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ. 5 However, God was unhappy with most of them, and they were struck down in the wilderness. 6 These things were examples for us, so we won’t crave evil things like they did. 7 Don’t worship false gods like some of them did, as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink and they got up to play. 8 Let’s not practice sexual immorality, like some of them did, and twenty-three thousand died in one day. 9 Let’s not test Christ, like some of them did, and were killed by the snakes. 10 Let’s not grumble, like some of them did, and were killed by the destroyer. 11 These things happened to them as an example and were written as a warning for us to whom the end of time has come. 12 So those who think they are standing need to watch out or else they may fall.
Galatians 5:19-21
The actions that are produced by selfish motives are obvious, since they include sexual immorality, moral corruption, doing whatever feels good, 20 idolatry, drug use and casting spells, hate, fighting, obsession, losing your temper, competitive opposition, conflict, selfishness, group rivalry, 21 jealousy, drunkenness, partying, and other things like that. I warn you as I have already warned you, that those who do these kinds of things won’t inherit God’s kingdom.
Was Peter lying when he said sinful people would lose their salvation by imitating sinful people?
2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you have been warned in advance, be on guard so that you aren’t led off course into the error of sinful people, and lose your own safe position.
If Christians could not lose their salvation, why did Jude warn them about the punishment of eternal fire for those of them who practiced sexual immorality?
Jude 1:7
In the same way, Sodom and Gomorrah and neighboring towns practiced immoral sexual relations and pursued other sexual urges. By undergoing the punishment of eternal fire, they serve as a warning.
Yes, you are correct.
The consequence of unrepented egregious sin is the loss of eternal life. If a person loves Jesus Christ, he obeys his commandments. There is no separation between the two. Jesus Christ only gives the crown of eternal life to those who are still loving/obeying God until their death. James 1:12
The KJB says the believer has eternal life right now > present tense < in at least 8 passages (Jn 3:15–16, 3:36, 5:24, 6:47, 6:54; 1 Jn 5:11, 5:13). Jesus Himself says the believer "shall never perish" (Jn 10:28).The consequence of unrepented egregious sin is the loss of eternal life. If a person loves Jesus Christ, he obeys his commandments. There is no separation between the two. Jesus Christ only gives the crown of eternal life to those who are still loving/obeying God until their death. James 1:12
When a Christian sins an egregious sin, he rejects/spurns Jesus' gift of saving grace. He tramples upon it, profaning it as if it were a worthless gift. If he does not repent before he dies, God will pour out his wrath upon him in hellfire. John 3:36, Romans 2:7-8
Hebrews 10:26-30
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the (new) covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their deeds; they are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good deed. Matthew 10:32-33
What saves/justifies us is grace. Jesus firstly gives us this saving grace as his gift to us.
However, in order to continue in the grace/kindness of God and receive eternal life, we must obey his commandments until we die.
Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
Revelation 2:10
Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.
I don't think continuing this discussion would be fruitful for either of us.
Yes, presently. It is not about tomorrow. It is about this very moment. If you are believing/obeying, and loving God this very moment, you are being saved.
