Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

Factotum · 2025-12-06T22:36:35-0600

Bradskii said:
... we've now got to the point where people are saying that people dealing in drugs should be summarily killed...

In this case, "People" = terrorists.

I think that changes a lot of things not mentioned in your post where the excerpt came from.

Factotum · 2025-12-06T22:48:41-0600

RDKirk said:
Terrorists are classified as "unprivileged belligerents."

Okay, I can respect your decision to list that.

What are you asking?

Can you tell if that same "unprivileged belligerents' criterion should be found here: https://www.state.gov/executive-order-13224#criteria ...??

7thKeeper · 2025-12-06T23:19:37-0600

Factotum said:
In this case, "People" = terrorists.

I think that changes a lot of things not mentioned in your post where the excerpt came from.

It doesn't.

Nithavela · 2025-12-06T23:34:08-0600

NxNW said:
Looks like they were surrendering.
View attachment 374095

Come on. They were obviously signalling the positions of the us navy towards their allies for a missile strike by semaphore.

Nithavela · 2025-12-06T23:35:17-0600

Bradskii said:
I read a book a few weeks ago called One Second After. It's about what happens in the US, primarily in one small town, when some unamed enemy sets off a number of Electro Magnetic Pulse weapons over the country. All electrics are fried. So next to no transport, lighting, power, comms...almost everything is dead.

It is chilling how convincing the collapse in 'civilised' behaviour is portrayed and the rule of law goes out of the window. New rules are the norm. Brutal laws. Severe punishments. People who were upstanding members of the community revert to being judge, jury and executioner.

In one case a couple of relatively young guys are caught stealing and dealing drugs. Their 'trial' lasts a few minutes. The sentence is carried out when they are dragged out to the local basketball court and shot in the head in front of cheering God fearin' town folk.

I was honestly chilled reading that at the time at how society can revert to carrying out such barbaric acts so quickly. It's positively medieval.

You're already there, my friend.

It's been shown that in times of crisis humans are actually more likely to help each other than to instantly revert to barbarism.

Nithavela · 2025-12-06T23:39:17-0600

Factotum said:
In this case, "People" = terrorists.

I think that changes a lot of things not mentioned in your post where the excerpt came from.

Why the scare quotes. Terrorists are still people, not "people". They are not vermin you are free to exterminate without regard for human rights.

Well, they are, but only because human rights are a joke. Not because they are terrorists.

Factotum · 2025-12-07T00:55:42-0600

Nithavela said:
still people... They are not vermin you are free to exterminate without regard for human rights.

What I feel is saddest?
Is if we hate our nation and/or the US President so much... to whereas we vehemently protect Terrorists' desire to traffick that which factually exterminate vulnerable USA citizens and residents without regard for human life, as if USA humans are vermin.

Nithavela · 2025-12-07T00:57:58-0600

Factotum said:
What I feel is saddest?
Is if we hate our nation and/or the US President so much... to whereas we vehemently protect Terrorists' desire to traffick that which factually exterminate vulnerable USA citizens and residents without regard for human life, as if USA humans are vermin.

So we've gone from narco-terrorists to just pure terrorists, hmm?

If one is serious about human rights, one protects the rights of every human.

Of course it is a common trope that we can't spare a single ounce of compassion, or even basic decency, for "them" when we haven't fully taken care of "us".

Yet we never seem to get around to actually helping "ourselves". We are far too busy stomping on "them".

Postvieww · 2025-12-07T06:05:04-0600

Bradskii said:
I read a book a few weeks ago called One Second After. It's about what happens in the US, primarily in one small town, when some unamed enemy sets off a number of Electro Magnetic Pulse weapons over the country. All electrics are fried. So next to no transport, lighting, power, comms...almost everything is dead.

It is chilling how convincing the collapse in 'civilised' behaviour is portrayed and the rule of law goes out of the window. New rules are the norm. Brutal laws. Severe punishments. People who were upstanding members of the community revert to being judge, jury and executioner.

In one case a couple of relatively young guys are caught stealing and dealing drugs. Their 'trial' lasts a few minutes. The sentence is carried out when they are dragged out to the local basketball court and shot in the head in front of cheering God fearin' town folk.

I was honestly chilled reading that at the time at how society can revert to carrying out such barbaric acts so quickly. It's positively medieval.

You're already there, my friend.

Currently there is only one side of the political spectrum involved in rampant anarchy. The video proof is readily available to anyone who really cares about truth.

Postvieww · 2025-12-07T06:15:58-0600

Nithavela said:
If one is serious about human rights, one protects the rights of every human.

That is a noble ideal that was lost on the Obama and Biden administrations. The evidence is starting to be exposed. The truth will prevail. We shall see who really is above the law .

Nithavela · 2025-12-07T06:30:42-0600

Postvieww said:
That is a noble ideal that was lost on the Obama and Biden administrations. The evidence is starting to be exposed. The truth will prevail. We shall see who really is above the law .

Apparently it's a nobel ideal that you and many other conservatives in this thread disagree with, so I don't see why you have a problem with democratic governments not following it.

I'm joking. Of course I see why.

Postvieww · 2025-12-07T06:36:26-0600

Nithavela said:
Apparently it's a nobel ideal that you and many other conservatives in this thread disagree with, so I don't see why you have a problem with democratic governments not following it.

I'm joking. Of course I see why.

Were you against violating human rights when many conservatives were denied them by their government. Do you need a list.?

Factotum · 2025-12-07T06:52:43-0600

Nithavela said:
So we've gone from narco-terrorists to just pure terrorists...

uhhh, I think it is the other way around, sir.
According to Marco Rubio they were already deemed to be terrorists before any bombings occurred. Then some anti-Trump USA citizens decided that the terrorists need to be protected.

I'm left wondering what those same folks were saying when Obama was bombing innocent civilians in 2012 (Yemen) and in 2016 (Afghanistan) ...but i have a feeling they won't be interested in discussing that.

Factotum · 2025-12-07T06:57:06-0600

Postvieww said:
Currently there is only one side of the political spectrum involved in rampant anarchy.

Is that the same way you thought in 2012 and 2016? That is when only one side of the political spectrum was bombing innocent civilians in Yemen and Afghanistan.

Aryeh Jay · 2025-12-07T07:22:35-0600

But Obama did it. Case closed.

7thKeeper · 2025-12-07T07:45:32-0600

Aryeh Jay said:
But Obama did it. Case closed.

Thanks Obama!

BCP1928 · 2025-12-07T07:54:50-0600

Factotum said:
Yes, I agree with that premise.
Can you tell me how you process that when "the law is" consisting of our Dept's of State/Treasury/Justice legally classifying those unpriviled belligerents as terrorists?

Of course. Legally they are "terrorists." Actually, they are not, calling them "terrorists" is just a fairy story concocted by morally bankrupt Christian nationalists to justify their summary execution.

RDKirk · 2025-12-07T07:57:13-0600

Factotum said:
Okay, I can respect your decision to list that.

Can you tell if that same "unprivileged belligerents' criterion should be found here: https://www.state.gov/executive-order-13224#criteria ...??

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about "designations."

It's possible for one group to be designated in more than one way under more than one governmental dispensation.

The State Department can designate a group a "terrorist organization" for their purposes.

For the military, an organization designated a "terrorist organization" by the State Department puts them in the "unprivileged belligerent" category for the purposes of the Law of Armed Conflict.

So, Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization and because of that designation, the members of Al Qaeda are "unprivileged belligerents" under the LOAC.

RDKirk · 2025-12-07T08:03:52-0600

Factotum said:
I'm left wondering what those same folks were saying when Obama was bombing innocent civilians in 2012 (Yemen) and in 2016 (Afghanistan) ...but i have a feeling they won't be interested in discussing that.

Obama was not, however, targeting "innocent civilians."

And you probably don't understand the difference, or you don't care about the difference. Innocent civilians always get bombed. We haven't had a modern war in which innocent civilians were not killed by artillery fire or aerial bombing. But we have not been targeting innocent civilians.

RDKirk · 2025-12-07T08:08:53-0600

Say it aint so said:
Let me understand this. The JAG officer said the very example of what is illegal as used in the military code training, is not illegal.
There is a reason why the Trump admin purged JAG officers who they thought would be an obstruction. You know, as in those clearing their throats to speak up when things are illegal.

I think Trump has gotten down to the level where the JAG officers are hoping to just keep their heads down and out of his sights through his term. Some of them are not going to be successful at that.

Now does everyone understand why the "right to refuse illegal orders" video was made?

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