The Mamdani Model: More Socialist Mayors to ComeBeware! The DSA will attempt to repeat Mamdani’s success in other Democrat strongholds.

stevevw said:

Not sure what you mean. Is this the Vatican or the Roman Empire.

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Neither, I was speaking of *Italy*. The Roman Empire has been gone for a millennium and "the Vatican" isn't a real country.

stevevw said:

They certainly had a good run on that one and usurped a lot of immigrants lol

Or was it the perils of post WW2 and how they sided with the Nazis.

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If you don't get a joke about the problems caused by Italian immigrants to Italy in a thread full of anti-immigrant rhetoric, then I can't help you. (But that is our undying theme, isn't it.)

essentialsaltes said:

For me, it's not a they, it's a me. Why are you afraid of me?

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I thought you said "Fortunately, the secular majority will keep things safe for everyone". Thats not a 'me' but a 'they'. The secular majority is a group and majority over the rest.

I am saying whatever it is that the secular majority determines as good and will keep us safe is not a good proposition. I would not trust them whatever the idea or basis is for how they decide to order society and reality for that matter.

essentialsaltes said:

In this case, the majority of secularists wants a continuation of the status quo under the First Amendment. It's Landon Caeli who wants to rewrite the Constitution.

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Hum I don't know your consitution well enough to say so. But certainly some principles included are worth keeping. Like the freedoms we enjoy such as the right to religious belief. I would not like to live in a nation that denied a persons belief. Or speech or political view.

But at the same time there is something not right with the current philosophical foundation. This by the fact that it is producing a divided society. Is this the natural progression of such ideas that a nation can be both united in belief and at the same time invite contrary beliefs and ideologies. That only forsters division and hate.

A nation divided falls. If it falls is it the fault of the very foundation it sat upon. Or a lack of upholding such truths. Maybe a bit of both. Many say democracy does not work anymore.

stevevw said:

I thought you said "Fortunately, the secular majority will keep things safe for everyone". Thats not a 'me' but a 'they'. The secular majority is a group and majority over the rest.

I am saying whatever it is that the secular majority determines as good and will keep us safe is not a good proposition. I would not trust them whatever the idea or basis is for how they decide to order society and reality for that matter.

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No, the "secular majority" are those who realize that banning one religion at the behest of another is in no one's best interest.

stevevw said:

Hum I don't know your consitution well enough to say so. But certainly some principles included are worth keeping. Like the freedoms we enjoy such as the right to religious belief. I would not like to live in a nation that denied a persons belief. Or speech or political view.

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Yet here you are, arguing on the side of an individual who wants the Constitution re-written to do that to Islam.

stevevw said:

But at the same time there is something not right with the current philosophical foundation. This by the fact that it is producing a divided society. Is this the natural progression of such ideas that a nation can be both united in belief and at the same time invite contrary beliefs and ideologies. That only forsters division and hate.

A nation divided falls. If it falls is it the fault of the very foundation it sat upon. Or a lack of upholding such truths. Maybe a bit of both. Many say democracy does not work anymore.

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The nation is presently divided because one particular branch of the Christian religion no longer has the cultural power it once had got it's nose out of joint over no longer being first among equals.

stevevw said:

I am saying whatever it is that the secular majority determines as good and will keep us safe is not a good proposition. I would not trust them whatever the idea or basis is for how they decide to order society and reality for that matter.

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It seems likely you'll experience it long before we in the US do.

Religion in Australia (2021 census)

1. Christianity (43.9%)
2. No religion (38.9%)

Let us know how it turns out.

essentialsaltes said:

It seems likely you'll experience it long before we in the US do.

Religion in Australia (2021 census)

1. Christianity (43.9%)
2. No religion (38.9%)

Let us know how it turns out.

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Yeah I don't go by religious polls. I think theres more 'No religions in all western nations compared to past generations. Even many Christians profess a politicised religion that is not Christianity in the sense that Christians are not of this world but of Gods Kingdom.

Which is the exact opposite of what is happening in identity politics. You can be a religious groups as a political identity and be just as much a part of the world as no religions.

What your not considering is that Australia does not have the religious fundementalism as the US. Though we may have less Christians we also have less radicals. We are always around 2 to 5 years behind the US. Though its catching up pretty quickly.

I am talking more about the powers that govern and set the agenda and order for society based on their ideology. Progressive/Socialism as opposed to Conservative/Christian.

Despite the numbers it is the party which gets in that dictates the social order. The US is suppose to be a strong Christian nation. Yet they are coming out of a period that ushered in ant Christian social policies.

So Christians cannot do anything of they are not supported by a government that is open to their beliefs. Otherwise they like the pagan Romans will be subject to whatever ideology the holder of power determines.

I think primarily for all western nations we are seeing a divide and conflict between Left and Right. Conservatives and by extention Christians verses Progressives, liberals and socialists. A strange mix.

The divide will increase and it will be Christians and of course Jews as always who it will come down to as the enermy of the State power and the worldly ideology it will push.

stevevw said:

Despite the numbers it is the party which gets in that dictates the social order. The US is suppose to be a strong Christian nation. Yet they are coming out of a period that ushered in ant Christian social policies.

So Christians cannot do anything of they are not supported by a government that is open to their beliefs. Otherwise they like the pagan Romans will be subject to whatever ideology the holder of power determines.

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We have entered a time in which the US government is opposing some important Christian values. I agree that it's easier to carry out large social-support programs when we have the cooperation of the government -- they have financial resources, large-scale record-keeping, distribution mechanisms, all of which provide good ways to get resources to those in need.

But I disagree that Christians cannot do anything without government support. If the government stops caring for those in need, then we must care for those in need without the government's help. If the government seeks to persecute groups of people, we as Christians can still make a different choice. It's useful to have government support, but we don't have to wait for the government before we do what's right.

stevevw said:

Despite the numbers it is the party which gets in that dictates the social order. The US is suppose to be a strong Christian nation. Yet they are coming out of a period that ushered in ant Christian social policies.

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Allowing the non-Christian citizens of a secular state to do things that Christians regard as sin is not an anti-Christian social policy.

stevevw said:

So Christians cannot do anything of they are not supported by a government that is open to their beliefs. Otherwise they like the pagan Romans will be subject to whatever ideology the holder of power determines.

I think primarily for all western nations we are seeing a divide and conflict between Left and Right. Conservatives and by extention Christians verses Progressives, liberals and socialists. A strange mix.

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It seems strange because you are mixing social policy, economic policy and foreign policy and trying to put them all on the same left-right axis. Once upon a time in this country, conservative evangelical Christians supported left-wing labor and economic policies, with candidates like William Jennings Bryan.

stevevw said:

The divide will increase and it will be Christians and of course Jews as always who it will come down to as the enermy of the State power and the worldly ideology it will push.

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Christians and Jews should be used to that by now. They will get through it.