Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Hentenza said:

The same c&p with the same verses that have been refuted over and over. Jesus is indeed God. Jesus did indeed create everything. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is perfectly capable and powerful to complete one covenant and give us another. He is perfectly capable and powerful to fulfill the law including the 10 commandments. He is perfectly capable and powerful to fulfill the 4th commandment on Himself ( not the Strawman of becoming the sabbath that you stated in your post) and declare Himself Lord of the Sabbath. Our rest now is in Jesus not in one day.

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It is a day that God set apart for us to keep holy and rest from our secular labors. We must be resting in Him to keep the day holy. But it is a day that we are to rest physically too.

pasifika said:

You don't have to decide anything, All commandments, statues etc is given under the law to be followed. Breaking any commands etc in the law means breaking the whole Law. There is a confusion here for some, there is law based on works (this for the old covenant law) but also a law based on Faith for the New covenant. (see Romans 3 for the two laws). The two laws are independent of each other.

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Yes, there is a lot of confusion concerning Paul's teaching, especially in Romans 3. Paul is speaking about "remission of sins", not the definition of sin. Stealing is a Sin "because" God declared "Thou shall not steal". And the wages of sin is death. All men have sinned and therefore are dead in trespasses and sins. But God from the beginning has provided for the remission of those sins. From Abel to Moses, men were shown Mercy though His Grace who, like Abraham, would repent and "Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit". (Ez. 18:31)

But the Israelites HE saved from Sin (Egypt) broke His Covenant with a Golden Calf. So God "ADDED" a LAW Abraham didn't have, a temporary LAW to provide for the remission of their sins until the Prophesied High Priest of God, "After the Order of Melchizedek" should come (in their minds). This added LAW required that when a man sinned, he was required to bring a goat to a Levite Priest and kill it. The Priest would then take the blood of the sacrifice and sprinkle it on the Alter, along with other "works of this law", and through the works of this law the Priest would provide atonement for the repentant sinner. You can read about this yourself in Lev. 4.

This is what Paul called "The Law of Works" that was to lead men to the true Lamb of God. And it lead the Faithful, like David, Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, to the Christ. (Luke 1&2)

But the Priests became corrupted and used this Law as a marketing strategy to create a religious business selling the sacrifices for justification of sins. When all along what God wanted was obedience, as it is written, "To obey is better than sacrifice". For the Pharisees to accept Jesus as the Prophesied Messiah, would be the end of their business, their fame their being called "Rabbi". So they rejected the Christ and continued promoting their corrupted version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the Law" for remission of sins.

The Law of Faith, was repent and "Yielding yourself" servants to obey God, in the belief that their sins will be forgiven by the Blood of the Lamb of God that HE offered to God for our sins, just like Abraham and David believed. This belief is called "Faith". That a man would repent of their transgressions, defined by Jesus as "Now go and Transgress God's Laws no more", turn to God, defined by Jesus as "Living by Every Word of God", and do works "worthy of repentance", defined by Paul as "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (Body) as instruments of righteousness "unto God"."

"Many", who come in Christ's Name, would have us believe Paul is speaking to God's Definition of Sin, as the "Law of Works" for the remission of sins. But if one turns away from this world's religious system and studies for themself, "if Faith", they will find what Moses instructed a man who transgressed God's commandments to do. And Only the Anointed Priest of God can provide for the remission of a mans sin. And HE Himself said, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

Mankind from the very beginning has chosen to judge God's Commandments, some as worthy of their respect and honor, and others as unworthy of their respect and honor. In other words, as Paul teaches, "when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

I am a nobody, but still it seems simply a reasonable service to Yield myself to God, not judge His Commandments.

pasifika said:

In regards to the rest (Sabbath rest) 4th command. This Rest is more than a literal or physical rest it's a "spiritual rest".

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HIM said:

If you are sinning the Law is for you.

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Absolutely wrong, the shed blood of our SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST is for me. It is called GRACE. It is not what we do, it is what Jesus did.

The power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us teaches us true love for God and our fellow man. There are hundreds of ways to sin, not just nine. Over and over, Paul teaches us that the Old Covenant law has been done away. It was temporary until Jesus came and gave mankind the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost. Please read about it in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

SabbathBlessings said:

For me, I would want a verse from God, before I start telling God what are His commandments,

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Hi SB, can't you see that is exactly what you are doing by referring to the commandments of God as being only the Ten Commandments?

Bob S said:

Hi SB, can't you see that is exactly what you are doing by referring to the commandments of God as being only the Ten Commandments?

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Yes. I am quoting and believing what God in His own words said are His commandments and personally numbered them Ten, not 9 or 613 and after said He added no more- it is a single document written on stone that God placed together, the only Laws inside the ark of the covenant and under His mercy seat and it is God's written and spoken Testimony.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.


Even Moses didn't take credit for them
Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.


Moses did take credit for all of the other laws that God gave him that he wrote (not God) on paper that were besides God's Ten Commandments placed outside the ark as a witness against. This set of laws served as a whole other purpose than the Ten Commandments. (One law defines sin, the other was added because of sin)

Deut 31:9 So Moses wrote this law and delivered it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel.

Deut 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you

SabbathBlessings said:

For me, I would want a verse from God, before I start telling God what are His commandments,

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The verses have been given but the problem really is with your interpretation not with the verses themselves. We’ve talked about this before. Your interpretation cheapens the result of Jesus sacrifice on the cross because, according to your interpretation and logical ending, Jesus is not powerful enough to give us a new covenant and fulfilling the 4th commandment in himself.

HIM said:

It is a day that God set apart for us to keep holy and rest from our secular labors. We must be resting in Him to keep the day holy. But it is a day that we are to rest physically too.

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Is the day that God set apart for Israel to rest. He did not set Saturday apart for the church to rest. The law was never given to the church. Historical context is important.

Bob S said:

Absolutely wrong,

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The Holy Spirit says you are wrong

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Bob S said:

the shed blood of our SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST is for me. It is called GRACE. It is not what we do, it is what Jesus did.

The power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us teaches us true love for God and our fellow man. There are hundreds of ways to sin, not just nine. Over and over, Paul teaches us that the Old Covenant law has been done away. It was temporary until Jesus came and gave mankind the gift of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost.

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Another topic altogether

Bob S said:

Please read about it in 2 Corinthians 3:6-11.

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Another topic altogether

Hentenza said:

The verses have been given but the problem really is with your interpretation not with the verses themselves. We’ve talked about this before. Your interpretation cheapens the result of Jesus sacrifice on the cross because, according to your interpretation and logical ending, Jesus is not powerful enough to give us a new covenant and fulfilling the 4th commandment in himself.

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That's not what was said, but no Scripture says the New Covenant does not include the 4th commandment. The opposite was said, that the law of stone (Ten, not 9 Deut4:13) went from tablets of stone to tablets of the heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 God keeping His promises of not altering His words Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19 which means if we are going to believe what God said, Jesus never became the fulfillment of the 4th commandment so that we can profane it. Just like the other 9 commandments. Breaking one commandment, we break them all James2:11. The logical ending is trusting what God says through His spoken and written word Isa66:22-23

I am not going to continue debating this, its in God's hands, He will make this judgement. I believe He has spoken clearly in His own words, but I guess time will tell.

Take care

SabbathBlessings said:

That's not what was said, but no Scripture says the New Covenant does not include the 4th commandment.

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So post a post crucifixion verse that requires the Christian to keep the 4th commandment.

linux.poet said:

I am simply wondering what the answer to the poll question is. No hard feelings to Sabbath worshippers intended, I am simply curious.

If you do keep the Sabbath, how do you observe it? How you do believe Christians should observe it?

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That's a loaded question and it requires to unpack the 4th commandment if it pertains only to superficial observance or if there are deeper values that still keep the Sabbath according to the 4th. Christ tells us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (my 12:12). Does this mean if we are practitioners of this goodness that our actions are lawful? Is not goodness as better goal?

As it relates to the superficial we can only keep localised or contextual observance. If there was a donkey turning a mill in our basement to produce electricity this would be breaking the Sabbath, but yet this is what's going on everytime we flick a switch. There is a labour force attached to the end of every switch (not just electricy buy all services that are labour driven) and when we use them unnecessarily we are contributing to a labour force demand. But no one wants to talk about that and as long as they don't see the hamster wheel then they seem content to contribute needless turning.

DamianWarS said:

That's a loaded question and it requires to unpack the 4th commandment if it pertains only to superficial observance or if there are deeper values that still keep the Sabbath according to the 4th. Christ tells us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath (my 12:12). Does this mean if we are practitioners of this goodness that our actions are lawful? Is not goodness as better goal?

As it relates to the superficial we can only keep localised or contextual observance. If there was a donkey turning a mill in our basement to produce electricity this would be breaking the Sabbath, but yet this is what's going on everytime we flick a switch. There is a labour force attached to the end of every switch (not just electricy buy all services that are labour driven) and when we use them unnecessarily we are contributing to a labour force demand. But no one wants to talk about that and as long as they don't see the hamster wheel then they seem content to contribute needless turning.

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Jesus also said we can do evil on the Sabbath Mar3:4 and He said that means defiling or not keeping it. Neh13:17. We also need to understand the context of this passage, Jesus never said doing good is the only way we are to keep the Sabbath, this was just part of His teaching in correcting the Pharisees for claiming it was sin to help people in need that were sick as they would rather see someone suffer, than being able to help them. This was the context of this teaching, no where did Jesus ever state doing good on the Sabbath deletes the moral obligation of keeping the 4th commandment the way He gave it. Jesus kept the Sabbath as a holy convocation Luke4:16 just as He said Lev23:3 but it was never a sin to help people who are sick on the Sabbath.

There is nothing in Scripture that says one can't turn on a light, this is a similar rules the Pharisees were making that Jesus was constantly correcting.

We can try to justify why we don't have to keep any of God's commandments, not sure why everyone just chooses to apply this to the 4th commandment. Perhaps it has to do with our time. Doing what we want over what God asks. Its really not a new argument. Its one that was addressed in Scripture over Sabbath keeping and it kept those who came before us from entering the promise land. We are told not to follow in their same path Heb4:6,11


Eze20: 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 But I acted for My name’s sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands,16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

2 Tim3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [a]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

God wants us to both physically rest from our works and labors on the Sabbath and spiritual rest with Him, according to Scripture, to enter His rest one also ceased from their works as God did on the seventh day Heb4:10 Heb4:4 why Sabbath-keeping remains for the people of God. Heb4:9NIV what this verse literally translates into in the original Greek.

sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Why is it that God didn't reveal the seventh-day Sabbath command to any other nation? There is no historical indication that the Aztecs, the Aborigines, the Asians, the Celts, and all others were ever instructed to observe rituals given to Israel. Could it be that the seventh-day Sabbath was only for Israel???? I believe we have scriptural evidence that it was only for Old Covenant Israel.

Conumdrum, The seven-day cycle with the Sabbath being given at the end of the Sixth day and was given to the Israelite people somewhere close to the Red Sea. When man decided to place an imaginary line North and South in the Pacific Ocean (IDL), the weekly cycle begins there and ends there. At that time, the Jews, who are the keepers of the Sabbath, had to face a decision to either continue with the cycle given by God or change it according to the IDL. Had they gone with the original time, the Sabbath would be occurring now on a workday. Think about it.

Bob S said:

Why is it that God didn't reveal the seventh-day Sabbath command to any other nation? There is no historical indication that the Aztecs, the Aborigines, the Asians, the Celts, and all others were ever instructed to observe rituals given to Israel. Could it be that the seventh-day Sabbath was only for Israel???? I believe we have scriptural evidence that it was only for Old Covenant Israel.

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In the Sabbath commandment there was always a provision for everyone (stranger within your gate) Exo20:8-11 The Scriptures recorded as being given directly from God said that the Sabbath was made for humanity (including Gentiles) and His house (church) would be a house of prayer for all nations Mark2:27 Isa56:6-7 those who hold onto His covenant Isa56:6 which we see the fulfillment in the NC with both Jews and Gentiles coming together every Sabbath, almost the whole city (everyone) coming to together to hear the word of God on His holy Sabbath Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4

If the Sabbath is only for Jews, means only they will be saved, but according to Jesus He says all flesh will come before Him to continue in the New Heaven and New Earth for Sabbath worship Isa66:22-23. God made the Sabbath at Creation for all humanity Exo20:11 Mark2:27.

Sadly, not everyone accepts His blessings Isa56:2 and sanctification Eze20:12 and He won't force it on us. But I do not see how we can sanctify ourselves, its not something Scripture says we can Isa66:17 we need God Eze20:12 Eze20:20 Exo20:11

SabbathBlessings said:

In the Sabbath commandment there was always a provision for everyone (stranger within your gate) Exo20:8-11 The Scriptures recorded as being given directly from God said that the Sabbath was made for humanity (including Gentiles) and His house (church) would be a house of prayer for all nations Mark2:27 Isa56:6-7 those who hold onto His covenant Isa56:6 which we see the fulfillment in the NC with both Jews and Gentiles coming together every Sabbath, almost the whole city (everyone) coming to together to hear the word of God on His holy Sabbath Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4

If the Sabbath is only for Jews, means only they will be saved, but according to Jesus He says all flesh will come before Him to continue in the New Heaven and New Earth for Sabbath worship Isa66:22-23. God made the Sabbath at Creation for all humanity Exo20:11 Mark2:27.

Sadly, not everyone accepts His blessings Isa56:2 and sanctification Eze20:12 and He won't force it on us. But I do not see how we can sanctify ourselves, its not something Scripture says we can Isa66:17 we need God Eze20:12 Eze20:20 Exo20:11

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You need to understand the Sabbath in the new covenant perspective. You still at the old covenant Sabbath understanding. Otherwise you'll miss true Sabbath Rest which is found in Jesus. Read the Galatians warnings.

pasifika said:

You need to understand the Sabbath in the new covenant perspective. You still at the old covenant Sabbath understanding. Otherwise you'll miss true Sabbath Rest which is found in Jesus. Read the Galatians warnings.

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This addresses the New Covenant perspective

SabbathBlessings said:

This addresses the New Covenant perspective

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

The same c&p with the same verses that have been refuted over and over. Jesus is indeed God. Jesus did indeed create everything. Jesus is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. Jesus is perfectly capable and powerful to complete one covenant and give us another. He is perfectly...

www.christianforums.com

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

This isn't the Biblical definition of rest, but I will give some alternate Scriptures for consideration for those who might be interested. Christ fulfilled all of the law Does this mean we can steal or start worshiping other gods. Not according to Jesus who said this Mat5:17 and than said...

www.christianforums.com

Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

This isn't the Biblical definition of rest, but I will give some alternate Scriptures for consideration for those who might be interested. Christ fulfilled all of the law Does this mean we can steal or start worshiping other gods. Not according to Jesus who said this Mat5:17 and than said...

www.christianforums.com

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But every single verse that you posted in those threads as well as your arguments have been thoroughly rebuked. Just because you won’t accept reality and continue to post the same tired arguments are not going make them true.