Can Truth Be Known? How

CoreyD · 2025-11-13T12:44:47-0600

2PhiloVoid said:
How do I determine "truth"?

............... the truth is, I don't determine it. Rather, what I do is gather and analyze various evidences regarding the Reality which God has placed me in, and I do my best to make rational sense of it all, both historically and prayerfully, like St. Luke did.

Thank you.
Does your investigation include the Bible, foremost when it comes to the truth about God, Jesus Christ, life, death... etc.?

CoreyD · 2025-11-13T12:47:18-0600

Clare73 said:
So we are to obey all his Levitical commandments?

Clare... Please don't turn the thread into a debate about the ten commandments.
If anyone attempts to do that, please refrain, and focus on the OP. Thanks.

CoreyD · 2025-11-13T12:50:11-0600

Hawkins said:
Humans lack the ability to access truth directly. More often they acquire truth indirectly.

In terms of truth, there are roughly two camps of humans, one with extrememly small amount while the other the mass majority.
When you trust your own five senses, you joined the first camp of humans deemed as the eyewitnesses. When you are unable (as limited by human inability) to contact truth directly. You joined the second camp of humans deemed as the believers.

Even science works so. Do you know that black holes exist? You do. Do you have the evidence? You don't. Information (truth) functions as a piece of human testimony from eyewitnesses which we call them the scientists. There could less than 100 such scientists dedicated and specialized in researching black holes, versus the 8 billion humans on earth. That is to say, the 8 billioin humans need to put faith in the 100 scientists to indirectly get to such a piece of truth. That's how reality works.

Now how do we know the the truth of black hole with its characteristics are truly from scientists other than swallowing with faith? Subconsciously we rely on evaluating the legitimacy of what this piece of testimony is conveyed. From the authorities behind the testimony who authenticate the information, and from the consistency of how information are conveyed (if I said the in center of a black hole, there's a large stone, you shall not believe because this is inconsistent with information (a testimony) flowing). We get to the truth of black holes from journals we deemed reliable, TV channels we deemed reliable, education entities we deemed reliable. Subsequently these entities we deemed reliable are authenticated by the central government. One of the government's duty is to remove untrustworthy media conveying falsehoods. You may need to overthrow it if you don't think that it enforces the conveying of truth.

As for the Bible, the intangible media conveying its information are the physicla churches (you might choose to read the Bible by yourself though, yet in terms of a media in a larger scale of conveying information the churches are the role). The situation is governed by an intangible Church which utimately refers to the Temple built by Jesus in three days. It is somehow linked to God Himself (Jesus is the head of legitimate churches), in terms of authority and authentication.

Other than this "business as usual" flow of conveying truth, God the Holy Spirit is also poured upon Christians to guide them through. However, this is tied to basically two factors, which are 1) where your faith is, and 2) your distance from the sin-incompatible God.
As Jesus put, you can move mountains if you have enough faith, while He also put that His direct disciples' faith is smaller than the smallest seeds in the world. So you still need the authenticated Church to maintain a standard (though intangible as well).

Distance to the sin-incompatible God matters as well. How close you are to God? In 60s there could be less than 1% Christians can actually get in touch with pornography, but today the opposite may be true that less than 1% Christian haven't get in touch with it. To a certain extent, this measures distance from God of today's humans. Again, I don't think that you can rely on this factor alone without the intangible standard from the intangible Church. No worries yet, the final statement is that if you are His sheep you will hear His voice. Those endure to the end by doing the will of the Father shall be saved at the end. Not a single sheep will be left behind! That's the promise.

I started to read your post, and it looks interesting.
I'll get back to it, and respond later. I have to go now.

Delvianna · 2025-11-13T12:58:51-0600

CoreyD said:
Don't fall, you hear... I don't want to see you get hurt.
The problem there is that everyone has God. Every single believer in God... or at least 99% will claim to have God, so that claim will fall on deaf ears, really.

Not only skeptics death ears, but religious people's deaf ears.
Even as you and @timothyu say that, some here will be saying that you don't have a clue what truth is, and you imagine you have God.

The truth need to be examined with a scientific approach.
Even Jesus demonstrated this, when he said...

You will [p]know them by their fruits... Matthew 7:16

By this all people will know that you are My disciples: if you have love for one another.... John 13:35

that you bear much fruit, and so [g]prove to be My disciples... John 15:8

etc.

Getting to know the truth is not a matter of having a belief that one has God, and therefore one knows the truth.
People are not going to count that as evidence.
This was demonstrated in the book of Acts 17, very profoundly.

Paul was speaking to people who felt they knew God, but they?
Paul stood up in their midst...
The account in Acts 17:1-4 reads...
1 ...they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. 2 And according to Paul’s custom, he [a]visited them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 [b]explaining and [c]giving evidence that the [d]Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I am proclaiming to you is the [e]Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, [f]along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and [g]a significant number of the leading women

It was the scriptures that Paul skillfully used, to point out the truth.
Only then did some believe, and accept what Paul showed them.

A people that were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, were the Bereans, [l]for they received the word with [m]great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.
Again, it was the scriptures... studying it, and being able to see for themselves that what Paul was saying, was actually scriptural.

It was through investigation - a scientific approach.
Having something by which to measure the evidence.
Was it because God was with the Bereans? The scriptures do not say that.
The scriptures say, these were more noble-minded, and they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

That is the key. Being able to examine the scriptures, and know the ring of truth, because of seeing it.
Yes, It takes an honest and humble heart, but that depends on each individual, doesn't it.
Is that not why when Jesus sent his disciples out, he said to them, "Whenever you enter a city or village, search for a worthy person and stay in his home until you leave town" Matthew 10:11

Jesus did not tell them search for who has God, because they could not possibly know that, but they could discern who were humble enough to listen and be taught, and honest enough to accept, and inquire for more, because they were hungering and thirsting for truth.

All of this is true, isn't it?

I think you're missing the point. If someone has God, then God will lead/guide them. Since Jesus is the Shepard and we form our covenant with him, then we trust in his guidance. Can God use people and scripture to back up the truth? Yes, but without God's guidance, we can fall way off the road. Jesus is the "way, the truth and the light", all you technically need is God and he will guide/direct. When you start adding other things as a "requirement", you're essentially saying God can't guide correctly to truth without other stuff. If he really needs to, he'll show up himself. Loads of testimonies of God showing up in dreams and such, for people in other religions or even atheists. All you NEED is God, but scripture does help. As I said, it's an aid, but it shouldn't ever replace your walk/relationship with him on a personal basis.

concretecamper · 2025-11-13T13:09:55-0600

CoreyD said:
Those are some very good points. Thank you.
There is indeed a way to solve it.
See post #19.

Post #19 puts forth a subjective solution. Truth cannot be subjective.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-11-13T13:33:17-0600

CoreyD said:
Thank you.
Does your investigation include the Bible, foremost when it comes to the truth about God, Jesus Christ, life, death... etc.?

Of course it includes the Bible. I've been studying it along with many academic avenues for nearly 40 years, and I've done so with lots of scholarly help.

As I said above, "...like St. Luke did."

Sr.ChaplainJimmy · 2025-11-13T13:33:44-0600

"The Holy Spirit shall lead you into all truth" - God's Holy Word

timothyu · 2025-11-13T13:40:00-0600

Truth is not what we humans want it to be, but the opposite of what we desire. God said from beginning to end in the Bible to put His Will, that being His truth, ahead of our own. The pursuit of self by both human and elohim has steered us away from His truth to our own. We were given two commandments to rectify this but either we refuse or adapt it to suit our desires, not His. More people use God to justify themselves than actually follow His will. We even built a religion that makes it about us rather then God's plan to have both man and elohim alike no longer follow self and abuse our self-awareness. We were made with self-awareness to be of use to the Father, but until we stop grabbing the reins from Him, we are useless to His purpose and are cancers within His creation.

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Can Truth Be Known? How

CoreyD

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CoreyD

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CoreyD

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Delvianna

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concretecamper

I stand with Candice.

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2PhiloVoid

It's going to be Shelob's bad day!

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