He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

rjs330 · 2025-11-11T14:15:32-0600

Hentenza said:
Secondly, in the example shown in the OP the guy showed them his real ID and they still held him for an hour. In Texas, in order to get a real ID you have to prove either citizenship or bring a legal immigrant. ICE should known this and just let him go right away. I have no problem with ICE asking nicely and legally but unfortunately that is not what is happening.

An hour is nothing. Yes it does take a birth certificate to get a real ID. However there have been instances where illegals have obtained fake IDs. So officers have to confirm your identity and the validity of it. In typical police stops officers can verify an ID through dispatch who runs a check and can tell you whether ir not an ID is valid. It doesn't take long. However I don't believe ICE has that available to them like that. They dont have a dedicated dispatch or immediate access. So they have to detain and go through other processes to verify. And if they detain more than one person that takes time.

An hour of time is relatively short and understandable under these circumstances. ICE is not allowed to use local dispatch for their checks.

If ICE is operating in an area wirh known illegals tgey are most certainly allowed to pick up people who are in the area who appear to be illegal, yes including skin color. But they must use due diligence to clear those that are not illegal.

If LE raided an illegal gambling site where they knew a bunch of white guys were gambling and I was there not gambling, I would be picked up anyway because im white. And until they verified my story I would be held. Thats how they work and its perfectly legal and acceptable.

FreeinChrist · 2025-11-11T14:21:33-0600

The topic is not communism or Cuba or Baptista.

The first video linked in the article shows resistance though we do no see what led up to it. He had real ID which showed he was a US citizen. How fast did the agent grab him as he argued about not being illegal?

Saw this article too:

More Than 170 U.S. Citizens Have Been Held by Immigration Agents. They’ve Been Kicked, Dragged and Detained for Days.

The government does not track how often immigration agents grab citizens. So ProPublica did. Our tally — almost certainly incomplete — includes people who were held for days without a lawyer. And nearly 20 children, two of whom have cancer.

www.propublica.org

When the Supreme Court recently allowed immigration agents in the Los Angeles area to take race into consideration during sweeps, Justice Brett Kavanaugh said that citizens shouldn’t be concerned.

“If the officers learn that the individual they stopped is a U.S. citizen or otherwise lawfully in the United States,” Kavanaugh wrote, “they promptly let the individual go.”

But that is far from the reality many citizens have experienced. Americans have been dragged, tackled, beaten, tased and shot by immigration agents. They’ve had their necks kneeled on. They’ve been held outside in the rain while in their underwear. At least three citizens were pregnant when agents detained them. One of those women had already had the door of her home blown off while Department of Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem watched.

About two dozen Americans have said they were held for more than a day without being able to phone lawyers or loved ones.

That is unacceptable. Old Sheriff Joe Arpaio got a conviction for using race to arrest people that looked Mexican. He forgot that many Hispanics in Arizona had family living in Arizona before it was even a state. There were many abuses by Maricopa Deputies.
It is too bad our 6 political activist SCOTUS justices are allowing racial discrimination. I bet in time it will be overturned.

rjs330 · 2025-11-11T14:22:36-0600

Hans Blaster said:
they NEED A WARRANT

ICE does not need a warrant in most cases where they have operated. When they need a warrant they have gotten one. Do you have actual evidence that under the circumstances in the OP that they needed a warrant and did not have one? Was ICE taken to court and a ruling given that they needed a warrant to be there and didn't have one?

rjs330 · 2025-11-11T14:33:42-0600

FreeinChrist said:
Americans have been dragged, tackled, beaten, tased and shot by immigration agents. They’ve had their necks kneeled on.

All because they were like resisting and or obstructing and resisting. Sometimes they were involved in assaulting agents. The stuff posted by that group is pure propeganda written to inflame people against ICE by not being honest about the totality of circumstances.

I've seen far too many videos of claims of ICE doing wrong things and then someone else posting the entire video which clarifies the circumstances and clears ICE of any wrong doing.

I've discovered I cannot trust these things anymore. Too many in the media are not being honest about the circumstances.

FreeinChrist · 2025-11-11T14:37:44-0600

rjs330 said:
ICE does not need a warrant in most cases where they have operated. When they need a warrant they have gotten one. Do you have actual evidence that under the circumstances in the OP that they needed a warrant and did not have one? Was ICE taken to court and a ruling given that they needed a warrant to be there and didn't have one?

They raided a business and in people's homes. A quick check of AI overview has this:

ICE does not need a judicial warrant to make arrests for civil immigration violations, but they do need a judicial warrant to enter a private home without consent or exigent circumstances. For arrests, ICE officers can rely on their authority under the Immigration and Nationality Act, which allows them to arrest individuals if they have reasonable suspicion to believe they are in the U.S. illegally.

Police do not need warrants to arrest people but do for entering homes and businesses.
IF they are blowing off the doors of homes, they had better have a warrant.

Is being Hispanic give ICE reasonable suspicion to believe they are illegals? As I wrote before, there have been Hispanics living in what is now Arizona, and Texas and California and more actually, since before they were states.
In fact, many Hispanics in the southwest have intermarried with Native Americans.

So are those who look Chinese or Japanese or Lebanese or Pakistani getting arrest as illegals?

FreeinChrist · 2025-11-11T14:54:58-0600

rjs330 said:
All because they were like resisting and or obstructing and resisting. Sometimes they were involved in assaulting agents. The stuff posted by that group is pure propeganda written to inflame people against ICE by not being honest about the totality of circumstances.

I've seen far too many videos of claims of ICE doing wrong things and then someone else posting the entire video which clarifies the circumstances and clears ICE of any wrong doing.

I've discovered I cannot trust these things anymore. Too many in the media are not being honest about the circumstances.

I agree that much of the media is not honest - but I view it that the right leaning media is the problem.
They are helping to create a "them" who are different from "us".

And I have to wonder, if a group of masked men, without labeling as ICE or police, jump out of a van and grabs me or my daughter, should I resist what looks like a criminal action or meekly go along?

FBI Warns of Criminals Posing as ICE, Urges Agents to ID Themselves

In a bulletin to law enforcement agencies, the FBI said criminal impersonators are exploiting ICE’s image and urged nationwide coordination to distinguish real operations from fakes.

www.wired.com

In a bulletin to law enforcement agencies, the FBI said criminal impersonators are exploiting ICE’s image and urged nationwide coordination to distinguish real operations from fakes.

Criminals posing as US immigration officers have carried out robberies, kidnappings, and sexual assaults in several states, warns a law enforcement bulletin issued last month by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The bureau urges agencies to ensure officers clearly identify themselves and to cooperate when civilians ask to verify an officer’s identity—including by allowing calls to a local police precinct. “Ensure law enforcement personnel adequality [sic] identify themselves during operations and cooperate with individuals who request further verification,” it says.

First reported by WIRED, the bulletin cites five 2025 incidents involving fake immigration officers and says criminals are using Immigration and Custom Enforcement’s heightened profile to target vulnerable communities, making it harder for Americans to distinguish between lawful officers and imposters while eroding trust in law enforcement.

If ICE officers are going to be masked and look like thugs, and do not provide ID like a badge, why shouldn't I doubt who they are?
More recent photos of agents show they are al least having the word "police" somewhere on their clothing, but many didn't
have any id for months.

Hentenza · 2025-11-11T14:59:05-0600

rjs330 said:
An hour is nothing. Yes it does take a birth certificate to get a real ID. However there have been instances where illegals have obtained fake IDs. So officers have to confirm your identity and the validity of it. In typical police stops officers can verify an ID through dispatch who runs a check and can tell you whether ir not an ID is valid. It doesn't take long. However I don't believe ICE has that available to them like that. They dont have a dedicated dispatch or immediate access. So they have to detain and go through other processes to verify. And if they detain more than one person that takes time.

An hour is a short time for those that are not detained but it is a long time for someone detained, particularly if you are hand cuffed. Im sure you would not want to spend an hour detained.

ICE should have direct access to the same system that the border patrol uses. It is part of homeland security. The system contains access to the immigration data base and a portable finger print pad. Also, at least in Texas, real ids are extremely hard to forge. It can happen but is extremely rare. ICE should not default to an id being fake anyway given that, in the example in the OP, they entered a private work place where there is no probable cause that a criminal enterprise was happening.

rjs330 said:
An hour of time is relatively short and understandable under these circumstances. ICE is not allowed to use local dispatch for their checks.

See above.

rjs330 said:
If ICE is operating in an area wirh known illegals tgey are most certainly allowed to pick up people who are in the area who appear to be illegal, yes including skin color. But they must use due diligence to clear those that are not illegal.

Right. It is a huge assumption that a construction work place is harboring illegal activity. If they suspected illegal activity then they should have gotten a warrant through probable cause.

rjs330 said:
If LE raided an illegal gambling site where they knew a bunch of white guys were gambling and I was there not gambling, I would be picked up anyway because im white. And until they verified my story I would be held. Thats how they work and it’s perfectly legal and acceptable.

Is a construction site equal to an illegal gambling site? Did LE get a warrant based on probable cause like most have to do? Even to raid a drug house a warrant is required based on probable cause.

wing2000 · 2025-11-11T16:15:45-0600

FreeinChrist said:
The topic is not communism or Cuba or Baptista.

The relevant point being: If American continues to abuse the rights of it's citizens, there will be political consequences. Batista faced a revolution due in part to the brutality of his security forces. The Trump Administration is not the Batista regime....yet. However, if we, the citizens, don't defend our fellow citizens who happen to be Latino, we are well on our way to living in a state where arrest are arrest are made at the whim of a president.

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-11T17:28:07-0600

Hentenza said:
Even in situations as you describe, if it is ICE raiding the illegal gambling business, they are going to hone on Latinos and ignore caucasians. Secondly, in the example shown in the OP the guy showed them his real ID and they still held him for an hour. In Texas, in order to get a real ID you have to prove either citizenship or bring a legal immigrant. ICE should known this and just let him go right away. I have no problem with ICE asking nicely and legally but unfortunately that is not what is happening.

Fake IDs are a thing...

So merely showing what appears to be a REAL-ID compliant driver's license isn't always good enough.

For what it's worth, --as of 2024 Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico lead the nation in the highest concentration of fake IDs and fake identity documents in circulation.
(even ones that will pass a barcode scan test)

https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/fake-real-ids-have-already-arrived-heres-how-to-protect-your-business/

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-11T17:44:37-0600

Hans Blaster said:
Where does "proximity to criminal activity" come into effect here? The subject of the OP is a construction site. It is not

Is that a construction site where they've gotten a tip that the construction company and contractors have been hiring undocumented workers?

Baldwin County man files lawsuit against ICE's construction site raids

A Baldwin County man, a natural-born U.S. citizen, filed a federal lawsuit alleging two construction site raids violated his Fourth Amendment rights.

www.alreporter.com

This article has some additional details showing the company he was doing work for.

https://www.fox10tv.com/2025/02/14/fbi-conducts-illegal-immigrant-raids-dr-horton-developments/

It would appear so... this article from back in February outlines that the FBI was looking into it because evidently this DR Horton development company has a bit of a pattern.

2 different construction sites in one neighborhood were found to have been using ~15 undocumented laborers, and another construction site by DR Horton in a different town a few weeks later was found to be doing the same thing.

So given that both times this guy was stopped and detained for questioning, he was working at a DR Horton site (a company that has a track record of hiring undocumented Mexican laborers), and given that ID-faking is a thing, and more prevalent in the southern states, it's not unreasonable that they'd be interested in vetting him with something more rigorous than just eyeballing his driver's license.

Belk · 2025-11-11T18:05:48-0600

Hentenza said:
Thanks for the info. I am Latino but I don’t look it so I feel for the more ethnic looking Latinos out there that are going to be harassed simply for their looks. That should be unconstitutional.

Apparently you can do a Tort claim.

Wrongfully Detained by ICE? Know Your Right to Sue

Wrongfully detained by ICE? Learn how U.S. citizens and green card holders can sue under the FTCA and fight for justice and compensation.

warrenlawfirm.net

Belk · 2025-11-11T18:07:31-0600

rjs330 said:
ICE does not need a warrant in most cases where they have operated. When they need a warrant they have gotten one. Do you have actual evidence that under the circumstances in the OP that they needed a warrant and did not have one? Was ICE taken to court and a ruling given that they needed a warrant to be there and didn't have one?

Taken to court how, exactly? The only possible action I've been able to find is a tort claim which would not result in a4th amendment ruling against the officer.

Hentenza · 2025-11-11T19:33:39-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
Fake IDs are a thing...

So merely showing what appears to be a REAL-ID compliant driver's license isn't always good enough.

For what it's worth, --as of 2024 Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico lead the nation in the highest concentration of fake IDs and fake identity documents in circulation.
(even ones that will pass a barcode scan test)

https://www.cyberdefensemagazine.com/fake-real-ids-have-already-arrived-heres-how-to-protect-your-business/

The real ID program is the baby of the department of Homeland Security so their agents should know what a real ID actually looks like and the special elements that they are supposed to have. If not maybe they could hire a few bartenders to help them out.

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-11T19:53:48-0600

Hentenza said:
The real ID program is the baby of the department of Homeland Security so their agents should know what a real ID actually looks like and the special elements that they are supposed to have. If not maybe they could hire a few bartenders to help them out.

AI has been creating some very convincing fakes per the articles I linked before.

Surprisingly, REAL-ID compliant licenses don't have an RFID chip (which seems like a major oversight with regards to the program).

It's requires many of the same things required to get a passport, yet, a quick tap can determine whether or not a passport is bogus...for the REAL-ID licenses...not so much. You basically just need to "spoof" the gold star in the corner.

Why the government would develop a new form of "enhanced ID' that only relied on visual security features is beyond me.

Hentenza · 2025-11-11T19:55:33-0600

Belk said:
Apparently you can do a Tort claim.

Wrongfully Detained by ICE? Know Your Right to Sue

Wrongfully detained by ICE? Learn how U.S. citizens and green card holders can sue under the FTCA and fight for justice and compensation.

warrenlawfirm.net

Thanks. Just a quick cursory google search shows that there are quite a few active lawsuits out there.

rjs330 · 2025-11-11T20:05:24-0600

FreeinChrist said:
do for entering homes and businesses.
IF they are blowing off the doors of homes, they had better have a warrant.

Just like I said. When they need a warrant they are obtaining one.

FreeinChrist said:
Is being Hispanic give ICE reasonable suspicion to believe they are illegals?

Yes, if they are in areas where illegals are known to be. And of course sanctuary cities would he hot beds of illegals. If you raid a place with illegals then anyone matching the profiles of the illegals are going to be looked at.

This is rhe consequences of allowing 20 million illegals lose in the country.

Hentenza · 2025-11-11T20:24:35-0600

ThatRobGuy said:
AI has been creating some very convincing fakes per the articles I linked before.

Surprisingly, REAL-ID compliant licenses don't have an RFID chip (which seems like a major oversight with regards to the program).

It's requires many of the same things required to get a passport, yet, a quick tap can determine whether or not a passport is bogus...for the REAL-ID licenses...not so much. You basically just need to "spoof" the gold star in the corner.

Why the government would develop a new form of "enhanced ID' that only relied on visual security features is beyond me.

I was reading an article from idscan.net and it talks about how to visually check for false IDs including real IDs. They explain different visial methods and then talk about using id scanners which they claim are quite effective. I then asked AI if ICE agents carry mobile id scanners and here is the result.

“Yes, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents use various advanced tools for identification, including
mobile apps that use facial recognition and fingerprint scanning, which effectively function as modern ID scanners in the field.
These tools are part of a broader technological surveillance infrastructure used by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for identification and tracking.
Key technologies used by ICE agents include:

Mobile Biometric Devices: Agents are equipped with smartphone apps, such as the "Mobile Fortify" and the older "EDDIE" app, which allow them to capture photos and fingerprints of individuals in the field.
Database Access: These apps search for matches against vast government databases, including photos from U.S. entry/exit records, criminal databases, and even state driver's license photos, which ICE has accessed without some states' approval.
Other Biometrics: ICE has also explored or acquired technology for scanning irises and has access to other data like location information and social media dossiers.

The use of these technologies has raised civil liberties and privacy concerns among advocates and some lawmakers, particularly regarding the scanning of U.S. citizens and minors without consent.“

What say you?

ThatRobGuy · 2025-11-11T20:41:13-0600

Hentenza said:
The use of these technologies has raised civil liberties and privacy concerns among advocates and some lawmakers, particularly regarding the scanning of U.S. citizens and minors without consent.“

What say you?

The use of facial recognition software is moot if someone creates a fake ID with their own picture.

Truth be told, I had a fake ID back in college (that beer wasn't going to buy itself)... a college buddy's cousin worked for the local BMV and was able to give the "hook-up" for the one-time low fee of $100. But we were just trying to sneak and buy beer, we weren't trying to engage in more nefarious acts.

That aside, the civil liberties concerns are somewhat understandable with recognition and scanning software (they use it at the airports and scan your face when going through the TSA checkpoints now)

But, the objection most people have to it are based on the fact that there's an expectation that we're expected to "pretend" to be colorblind/culture-blind, or pretend that the patterns that do exist, don't exist.

The same reason there's pushback about the TSA checkpoints and random searches.

"we need to randomly search this 87 year old granny from Omaha Nebraska because we also screened this 27 year old El Salvadorian with a teardrop tattoo on his cheek, because we have to publicly convey the image of evenhandedness" is silliness.

No we don't...

To say otherwise defies common sense.

wing2000 · 2025-11-11T21:13:29-0600

rjs330 said:
Just like I said. When they need a warrant they are obtaining one.

Yes, if they are in areas where illegals are known to be. And of course sanctuary cities would he hot beds of illegals. If you raid a place with illegals then anyone matching the profiles of the illegals are going to be looked at.

This is rhe consequences of allowing 20 million illegals lose in the country.

Would that include a Latino grocery store, church or school?

Should my hispanic wife, who is a naturalized U.S. Citizen, have to carry her passport when she enters a Latino grocery store...just because she looks hispanic and is venues where illegals may be present?

Why should she and other US Citizens be subject to detention based on where they shop, worship or work?

FreeinChrist · 2025-11-11T21:39:07-0600

rjs330 said:
Just like I said. When they need a warrant they are obtaining one.

But they weren't.

rjs330 said:
Yes, if they are in areas where illegals are known to be. And of course sanctuary cities would he hot beds of illegals. If you raid a place with illegals then anyone matching the profiles of the illegals are going to be looked at.

Without someone saying something, how do you know where they are known to be". I have lived in Arizona for 40 plus years, and there are legal Hispanics and illegal Hispanics around. That is back to "looking brown, must be illegal."

rjs330 said:
This is rhe consequences of allowing 20 million illegals lose in the country.

That number has never been actually proven. Maybe if you add the illegals in Biden's term, and Trump's first term and many years besides that, you might get 20 million

It is unfortunate that Trump didn't want that bill reforming immigration to pass which would have helped a great deal.

He’s a citizen with a Real ID. ICE detained him anyway. Twice.

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