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Would Trump defend Australia if we were attacked? We HAD a big purchase deal worked out... but....

Kathleen30

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That last bit "Relying on the wealth of it’s minerals whilst allowing much of it industry and much experience to disappear and fly off overseas" is called trade. AKA globalisation. AKA trust with friendly neighbours.

Has any country ever been able to reverse the trend of economic modernisation? I'm no economist or historian - but it seems to go:-
  1. peasant farmers to industrial revolution. (Which is the industrialisation of both land and production.)
  2. manufacturing
  3. growth in wealth and productivity
  4. shift to a modern services and information and innovation economy as the manufacturing gets outsourced to developing countries with cheaper labour, salaries, and exchange rates

Australia had our experiment with tariffs. We got our fingers burnt back in the 1970's trying to defend a domestic electronics industry. We got colour TV a decade after everyone else and they were double the price!

Adam Smith recommended against tariffs in his "Wealth of nations". (Again - I'm no economist - I've heard this recently - not read it myself.)

I'm betting that if it's between a man diagnosed as a Malignant Narcissist by over 230 experts - and Adam Smith - I'm picking Adam Smith.

Trump defies all the normal 'laws' of a modern economy. He uses tariffs as a bartering tool in international diplomacy - when most nations tried to use other things and set up a rules based order in the WTC. He has even been accused of rigging the stock market by letting friends know before big announcements on relaxing tariffs - which saw big trade bets just BEFORE he announced a 90 day reprieve on tariffs.

Why are you guys allowing this? It's annoying all your allies - and it seems the President has nerfed the normal democratic protocols of CONGRESS being in charge of tariffs. When and why did that change? Why are you gradually allowing a President to become a King - and soak up all the powers - and judge international affairs by how well they've dished out his need for narcissistic supply and flattering his enormously insecure ego?
Eclipse when thinking upon President Trump and the experts. Well he keeps on defying the experts and proving them wrong. Their economy is booming and inflation be no more. You may call him narcissistic or a king if you so choose. But the reality seems to me that he be doing everything the American people voted for him to do. At least the ones that voted for him.
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Eclipse as to the AkA and the globalisation of friendly neighbours. Well charity firstly begins at home. How much of Australia really belongs to Australia or Australian's anymore ? As to the Australia in in the 70’s I guess when you had utopian dreamers like prime minister Goth Whitlam and globalists like prime minister Malcom Fraser running the show it wasn’t so much fun living in the Australia economically in the 70’s. You ask why you guys are allowing this. You say it’s annoying. Well me not one of those peoples up yonder. I be down under as you Maybe if little ambassador Kevin would have kept his mouth shut on what he thought of president Trump whilst he was out of office. Then Australia’s relationship might be some healthier. But I guess he went with the experts that President Trump would never again see White House status. A lesson to be learned from listening to all the so called experts I guess. Eclipse I do send greetings to us all here in down under land : )
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eclipsenow

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Eclipse when thinking upon President Trump and the experts. Well he keeps on defying the experts and proving them wrong. Their economy is booming and inflation be no more. You may call him narcissistic or a king if you so choose. But the reality seems to me that he be doing everything the American people voted for him to do.

With what evidence do you make these bizarre assertions? Manufacturing industry in green tech was FLOODING in under Biden's IRA - a big carrot enticing manufacturing back? EG: By 2030 America would have been manufacturing so many batteries that they could have (hypothetically) powered every new car as a 100% EV bought in the USA!

These batteries will however be split through different sectors - also - businesses don't know WHAT to invest in or do from day to day because of Trump's chaotic and ever changing tariffs.

I'm not sure what you are asking about? We are an interdependent country like most in the modern world. Human beings are social creates - and being a mature adult is not about independence like some lone wolf - but appropriate empowered interdependence. Adam Smith explained trade in similar terms - that we all get richer when we trade.

SURE - if there's even a hint of geopolitical concerns about trusting the supply lines - I say subsidise or even NATIONALISE the thing!
But generally speaking, democracies get along - and trade according to the WTO - and we all get a bit wealthier under this system. I'm a greenie and would LOVE to see faster action on climate, less trading of fossil fuels, etc. But generally - although not perfect - although often corrupted by this or that lobby group or agenda - generally speaking the system sort of works.

Until Trump.


Maybe if little ambassador Kevin would have kept his mouth shut on what he thought of president Trump whilst he was out of office.
Nope. I'm with Malcolm Turnbull. One has to stand up to a bully. Trump sees himself as the 'big daddy' of the world - and is using tariffs to make sure every world leader flies over to 'kiss the ring'. They're really just giving him "Narcissistic Supply" - feeding his psychological disorder. He doesn't have friends - he has what psychiatrists call "Flying Monkey's" - those who serve the wicked witch! That's his team of "yes" men and women gathering around and applauding everything he says.

Even if Trump suddenly dies of a heart attack - the fact that America elected him repeatedly - and knowingly - means they have changed. Until such time as there is a profound cultural shift that disses crazy tinfoil hat stuff and respects the REALITY of climate change, Covid, long-term security arrangements, etc, Australia should trade with more reliable partners. And that also includes mutual defence pacts.

And after thinking about it deeply - I'm not sure we should join America if they defend Taiwan. I hate that China wants Taiwan. I hate that a democracy could fall! But unlike Putin - who has repeatedly stated he dreams of restoring the old USSR - China might actually stop with Taiwan. And with Trump being so 'America first' and 'no more overseas wars' - I wonder if China will mistake that for a green light to GO on Taiwan?

I certainly don't want a war with China - but feel we should continue to support Ukraine against the march across Europe.
 
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Kathleen30

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With what evidence do you make these bizarre assertions? Manufacturing industry in green tech was FLOODING in under Biden's IRA - a big carrot enticing manufacturing back? EG: By 2030 America would have been manufacturing so many batteries that they could have (hypothetically) powered every new car as a 100% EV bought in the USA!

These batteries will however be split through different sectors - also - businesses don't know WHAT to invest in or do from day to day because of Trump's chaotic and ever changing tariffs.

I'm not sure what you are asking about? We are an interdependent country like most in the modern world. Human beings are social creates - and being a mature adult is not about independence like some lone wolf - but appropriate empowered interdependence. Adam Smith explained trade in similar terms - that we all get richer when we trade.

SURE - if there's even a hint of geopolitical concerns about trusting the supply lines - I say subsidise or even NATIONALISE the thing!
But generally speaking, democracies get along - and trade according to the WTO - and we all get a bit wealthier under this system. I'm a greenie and would LOVE to see faster action on climate, less trading of fossil fuels, etc. But generally - although not perfect - although often corrupted by this or that lobby group or agenda - generally speaking the system sort of works.

Until Trump.



Nope. I'm with Malcolm Turnbull. One has to stand up to a bully. Trump sees himself as the 'big daddy' of the world - and is using tariffs to make sure every world leader flies over to 'kiss the ring'. They're really just giving him "Narcissistic Supply" - feeding his psychological disorder. He doesn't have friends - he has what psychiatrists call "Flying Monkey's" - those who serve the wicked witch! That's his team of "yes" men and women gathering around and applauding everything he says.

Even if Trump suddenly dies of a heart attack - the fact that America elected him repeatedly - and knowingly - means they have changed. Until such time as there is a profound cultural shift that disses crazy tinfoil hat stuff and respects the REALITY of climate change, Covid, long-term security arrangements, etc, Australia should trade with more reliable partners. And that also includes mutual defence pacts.

And after thinking about it deeply - I'm not sure we should join America if they defend Taiwan. I hate that China wants Taiwan. I hate that a democracy could fall! But unlike Putin - who has repeatedly stated he dreams of restoring the old USSR - China might actually stop with Taiwan. And with Trump being so 'America first' and 'no more overseas wars' - I wonder if China will mistake that for a green light to GO on Taiwan?

I certainly don't want a war with China - but feel we should continue to support Ukraine against the march across Europe.
You ask from where I make these bizarre assertions ? You then mention Biden’s green tech miracle flooding the viecle
With what evidence do you make these bizarre assertions? Manufacturing industry in green tech was FLOODING in under Biden's IRA - a big carrot enticing manufacturing back? EG: By 2030 America would have been manufacturing so many batteries that they could have (hypothetically) powered every new car as a 100% EV bought in the USA!

These batteries will however be split through different sectors - also - businesses don't know WHAT to invest in or do from day to day because of Trump's chaotic and ever changing tariffs.

I'm not sure what you are asking about? We are an interdependent country like most in the modern world. Human beings are social creates - and being a mature adult is not about independence like some lone wolf - but appropriate empowered interdependence. Adam Smith explained trade in similar terms - that we all get richer when we trade.

SURE - if there's even a hint of geopolitical concerns about trusting the supply lines - I say subsidise or even NATIONALISE the thing!
But generally speaking, democracies get along - and trade according to the WTO - and we all get a bit wealthier under this system. I'm a greenie and would LOVE to see faster action on climate, less trading of fossil fuels, etc. But generally - although not perfect - although often corrupted by this or that lobby group or agenda - generally speaking the system sort of works.

Until Trump.



Nope. I'm with Malcolm Turnbull. One has to stand up to a bully. Trump sees himself as the 'big daddy' of the world - and is using tariffs to make sure every world leader flies over to 'kiss the ring'. They're really just giving him "Narcissistic Supply" - feeding his psychological disorder. He doesn't have friends - he has what psychiatrists call "Flying Monkey's" - those who serve the wicked witch! That's his team of "yes" men and women gathering around and applauding everything he says.

Even if Trump suddenly dies of a heart attack - the fact that America elected him repeatedly - and knowingly - means they have changed. Until such time as there is a profound cultural shift that disses crazy tinfoil hat stuff and respects the REALITY of climate change, Covid, long-term security arrangements, etc, Australia should trade with more reliable partners. And that also includes mutual defence pacts.

And after thinking about it deeply - I'm not sure we should join America if they defend Taiwan. I hate that China wants Taiwan. I hate that a democracy could fall! But unlike Putin - who has repeatedly stated he dreams of restoring the old USSR - China might actually stop with Taiwan. And with Trump being so 'America first' and 'no more overseas wars' - I wonder if China will mistake that for a green light to GO on Taiwan?

Eclipse you state from what evidence do I make these bizarre claims ??? Well Eclipse perhaps you should seek closer to home in Australia on that matter. Where you actually have a kingship . You know like the king of the British commonwealth and maybe leave it there than following the mere mindless assumptions of mad hatters thinking that president Trump would ever want to be a king. Yes leave those thoughts where they belong. And that being In ga ga land . That’s all I say.
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Eclipse you then mention Biden’s green tech industry pouring in with the possibility of having every vehicle powered by battery by 2030. Perhaps a persons choice what they desire would have been a better option. I just luv the feel of a gear stick at full throttle and the reliability of juice injected power to hit the spot namely with what is know as fuel to get me from A to B. When thinking upon battery driven cars they have their place . But to have the entire American economy run by battery powered vehicles by 2030 would be an impossibility. Considering the infrastructure required for such a endeavour with charging stations and how long it takes to recharge a vehicle. And of course there was the reliability of the very few charging stations that they did complete. Quite a number failed to deliver what they claimed . If the policy had been followed to completion and had not been changed by the present government . Than the American economy would have ceased to function.
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As to trade. Well there is nothing wrong with trade within itself. But at the same time you don’t give up your essential industries Now Eclipse where is the Australian car manufacturing industry today. Gone forever it seems. Ford Australia and Holden be no more . BHP is no longer Australian owned but majority foreign owned. A portion of our waterways and dams are foreign owned such as the Murray Darling basin. And even our good old Commo bank now be foreign owned that’s all I say when thinking upon trade and ownership and sovereignty of one’s own nation . So you be a admirer of the Malcom Turnbull. Ok. Malcom’s dislike of Trump is well known. And you also claim that President Trump be mentally ill too. On the other hand it seems to me that you may suffer from Trump derangement syndrome also. Seems Trump derangement syndrome is not immune from Australia. As to president Trump being daddy that is what others claim of him. Trump has never claimed that of himself As to climate change . Eclipse climate change happens everyday. Mother Earth has her ways . Humanity dosnt really get to have a opinion on that. That be in the hands of God. But if you want go with all Al Gores predictions of doom and gloom we should have been all toasted some 15 yrs ago . And what of the the expanding holes in the ozone layer that they all screamed about it in the 80s blaming humanity’s pollution once more for the deed ? It turned out as truth eventually caught up with the lie that it was a natural reoccurring yearly event where both poles expanding or decreasing at different times of the year. You now hear nothing of the matter today . So I would be more careful with what the environmental movement and greenies claim all in the name of the environment. Manufacturing climate is a big business. Something to think about. As to Trump setting off a war. Seems to me he has done everything to prevent war although his outlook on the Gaza situation does leave much to be desired and one has many reservations. How much leeway does Israel get considering 50 thousand Palestinians now lay dead with all their infrastructure destroyed compared to Israel’s some 1300 dead . How much blood does Israel demand ?
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You do mention the question of Taiwan. Is it a acceptable sacrifice to make and cede Taiwan to the communists to preserve peace. Firstly Taiwan is not as Hong Kong under a 99 yr lease given unto the British after the opium wars with China commencing in 1898 and transpiring in 1997 . The Taiwan situation is entirely different. They be the remnant of the Chinese nationalist people they never surrendered and refused communist rule . If we take that path then why not give up my ancestral homeland of South Korea to communism rule too. That all me write for now . I do wish you a pleasant Saturday evening in your Sydney. Regards Kathleen
 
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