Once the mortal body is dead you can't be reconciled?

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Pet 4:6 " Because it was for this that the good tidings were proclaimed to the dead, that though judged in flesh according to human beings they might live in spirit according to God"
This passage is talking about non believers who had died, but the good tidings, or gospel was proclaimed to them so that they might live in spirit according to God.
Why would God allow the preaching to the dead

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Paul is referring to the preaching to those who are now dead, but who were alive at the preaching.

Jeff Saunders said:

if they could not respond? Does God just tease them knowing that their fate is sealed?
Can the death of the mortal body not be the end of the story for those who never saw Jesus for who he really is?

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Jeff Saunders said:

You have to force that way of reading, the chapter before talks about Jesus going and preaching to those who were physically dead, 4:6 is just a continuation of the same idea.

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Jeff Saunders said:

your reading your tradition into the text

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No, that is in agreement with the rest of the NT (Heb 9:27).
"Spirits" is not used of human beings without qualifying terms being added, it is restricted to superatural beings.
The gospel is preached to people in this life who are now dead so that in Christ's death they may receive judgment now and avoid judgment to come.

Your reading is in contradiction of the rest of the NT.

Jeff Saunders said:

You sound Orthodox with that statement, are you Orthodox?

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I consider my understandings to be orthodox generally, heterodox on our particular count.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Ultimately ALL salvation is after death OR, at the end, the experience of 1 Cor. 15's finale.

So what happens after death?

Romans 6:7
because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Anyone, not just believers.

Sin transpires in the body. That's why the body dies, Romans 8:10, Col. 3:3

Romans 11:26-32 shows that even enemies of the Gospel shall be saved regarding ALL of Israel.

Yes, salvation happens after death, even enemies of the Gospel. We have plenty of evidence to show it happens.

In any case it is sinners who are saved, 1 Tim. 1:15

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You have absolutely no evidence biblically or otherwise that salvation happens after death, Your group only has a few out of context verses to hang your erroneous belief on. You cannot take Romans 6:7 in a vacuum.

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The death here refers to dying in Christ after being buried with Him through baptism and become united in Him in the likeness of His death. His believers are no longer slaves to sin SO he who dies is free of sin. This verse does NOT help you.

The rest of the verses that you posted also does not help you at all. Paul does not teach that salvation is by the grace of God through faith (Eph. 2) and then teach that faith is not necessary because all will be saved at the end. What you are peddling is an illogical and unbiblical teaching that was deemed anathema during the 5th Ecumenical Council in 553ad.

Hentenza said:

You have absolutely no evidence biblically or otherwise that salvation happens after death

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Please, 1 Cor. 15 tells us exactly how that happens, aka a NEW BODY which is pretty common theological knowledge.

Hentenza said:

Your group

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I don't have a "group." Christian Universalism has a very wide range of various positions that disagree with each others just like the balance of Christiandom. I generally consider my views exceptionally orthodox across the board, Nicene Creed compliant, and heterodox as it pertains to the salvation of all people.

Hentenza said:

The death here refers to dying in Christ after being buried with Him through baptism and become united in Him in the likeness of His death. His believers are no longer slaves to sin SO he who dies is free of sin. This verse does NOT help you.

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And you are entirely reading into that your own personal dissections.

We have zero scriptural evidence of people sinning after they have died. And we have superabundant evidence of people sinning after baptism in this present life. I would say 100% with only 1 exception. So your theory here is flawed in the extreme

Hentenza said:

The rest of the verses that you posted also does not help you at all. Paul does not teach that salvation is by the grace of God through faith

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I hope you're not serious with that claim. Most of Protestantism believes exactly that, as do I. IF you are a salvation by works proponent, then say it.

Hentenza said:

and then teach that faith is not necessary because all will be saved at the end.

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I believe that anyone who loves knows God and is born of God, exactly as John the Apostle stated in 1 John 4:7 and also as Peter was taught by the Holy Ghost in Acts 10:35.

Unfortunately too many people have come up with their various formulas such as I fast, I pray, I give alms, I wear long robes to try to keep people out of heaven, like Jesus WARNED happens in:

Matthew 23:15

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Hentenza said:

What you are peddling is an illogical and unbiblical teaching that was deemed anathema during the 5th Ecumenical Council in 553ad.

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The supermajority sect, Roman catholicism, holds my view that all people can be saved as heterdox, meaning not common, but acceptable doctrinally.

So yes, it's very ORTHODOX to love our neighbors in case you missed the obvious

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Please, 1 Cor. 15 tells us exactly how that happens, aka a NEW BODY which is pretty common theological knowledge.

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Ah the isolated verse devoid of context. Who gets a new body according to Paul? Gee, let’s see.

Who is Paul talking to:

“Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Who is raised imperishable?

“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15‬:‭58‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

No reason to continue “in the work of the Lord” if all will be saved regardless. The word of God is ALWAYS going yo defeat your argument because your argument is ALWAYS based on out of context, isolated verses.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I don't have a "group." Christian Universalism has a very wide range of various positions that disagree with each others just like the balance of Christiandom. I generally consider my views exceptionally orthodox across the board, Nicene Creed compliant, and heterodox as it pertains to the salvation of all people.

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Yeah you do have a group. Slight variations but the same erroneous teaching. The only issue I have is with your teaching of soteriology I have not challenged you on anything else.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

And you are entirely reading into that your own personal dissections.

We have zero scriptural evidence of people sinning after they have died. And we have superabundant evidence of people sinning after baptism in this present life. I would say 100% with only 1 exception. So your theory here is flawed in the extreme

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Let’s test that. Here are the verses again.

“What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

No dissection but a simple read of the passage. Only those that have been baptized into Christ Jesus and buried with Him through baptism onto death are freed from sin. The words are simple unless you twist them as you have.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

I hope you're not serious with that claim. Most of Protestantism believes exactly that, as do I. IF you are a salvation by works proponent, then say it.

I believe that anyone who loves knows God and is born of God, exactly as John the Apostle stated in 1 John 4:7 and also as Peter was taught by the Holy Ghost in Acts 10:35.

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That was quite disingenuous. You split what I wrote to make it seem that I was what I was saying was error. I am debating you in good faith but you are not. What I said was, as one thought, Paul does not teach that salvation is by the grace of God through faith and then teach that faith is not necessary because all will be saved at the end. Both sentences go together. You guys are expecting Paul to be bipolar and teach one thing only to contradict himself by teaching something else.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Unfortunately too many people have come up with their various formulas such as I fast, I pray, I give alms, I wear long robes to try to keep people out of heaven, like Jesus WARNED happens in:

Matthew 23:15

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

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Your incorrect reply based on your underhanded tactic of quote mining what I wrote.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The supermajority sect, Roman catholicism, holds my view that all people can be saved as heterdox, meaning not common, but acceptable doctrinally.

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Nope. In your mind maybe. Maybe you should study what Catholics believe before making such a claim. Hopeful Universalism, while believing in the existence of hell, is merely a hope not a dogma. All of us can hope but universalism is outside of biblical principles And teachings.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

So yes, it's very ORTHODOX to love our neighbors in case you missed the obvious

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Yes. Here we agree.

Jeff Saunders said:

I know for myself that I have never said faith was not necessary because it absolutely is, the difference is that you believe faith can only come while in the mortal body, but I know that God does not stop pursuing someone just because they are no longer in the temporary mortal body. Phil 2:10-11 Every knee will bow of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue will gladly, joyfully without reservations confess that Jesus is Lord. Thats having faith no different from what you and I did if you are a follower of Jesus.

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Jeff we’ve been through this before. Let’s look at the verses in context.

“so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2‬:‭10‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Why would we have to work OUR SALVATION, here and in the present time, with fear and trembling if we will be saved no matter what? Once again you are grasping at straws.