How can God be ok with most people going to hell?

David Lamb said:

I would say that the verses from Ephesians I quoted show that. How can somebody "dead in trespasses and sins" belierve on the Lord Jesus Christ?

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What you should rather be asking is:

How does God tell us, in His Word, when a spiritually dead sinner is made alive?

David Lamb said:

Yes, the gospel (and Acts and the epistles) make clear that a sinner must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. However, for that to happen, God has to take the initiative. As those Ephesians 2 verses say, God has to make dead sinners alive and raised them up. Praise Him for His wonderful grace!

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The questions you should be asking yourself is, according to God's Word,

Does God promise to make dead sinners alive so they can believe?

OR

Does God promise dead sinners Life because they do believe?

Galatians 3:21-22 (WEB) 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could Make Alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, so that The Promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Did God make dead sinners alive so they can believe or because they do believe?

“Death to life” (Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13) is only by Faith

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in me, even if he should die, he will live.

John 20:31 These things are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 Most certainly I tell you, he who hears [listens to] my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Did God raised up sinners so they can believe or because they do believe?

“Raised up with him” (Ephesians 2:6) is by faith in the working of God:

Colossians 2:12 (WEB) 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God

Do you believe these Scriptures that tell us how we are made alive and how we are raised with Christ?

setst777 said:

Does God promise to make dead sinners alive so they can believe, or because they do believe, according to the Scriptures?

Galatians 3:21-22 (WEB) 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could Make Alive, most certainly righteousness would have been of the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned all things under sin, so that The Promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Did God make dead sinners alive so they can believe or because they do believe?

“Death to life” (Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13) is only by Faith

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I would say that Ephesians 2 indicates that sinners need to be raised by God in order for them to be able to believe. Colossians 2:13 is similar:

“And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,” (Col 2:13 NKJV)

No mention of the dead having to stir themselves to exhibit faith. That would seem rather like Lazarus in his tomb. He couldn't do anything until Jesus miraculously restored him to life.

setst777 said:

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in me, even if he should die, he will live.

John 20:31 These things are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 Most certainly I tell you, he who hears [listens to] my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Did God raised up sinners so they can believe or because they do believe?

“Raised up with him” (Ephesians 2:6) is by faith in the working of God:

Colossians 2:12 (WEB) 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God

Do you believe these Scriptures that tell us how we are made alive and how we are raised with Christ?

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I believe those scriptures tell us of the absolute necessity of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are not made alive by believing; we cannot believe when we are dead in trespasses and sins. A similar picture is provided by Jesus in His words to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." Now, no baby of its own volition, causes itself to be born. Similarly, sinners don't give themselves the new birth.

David Lamb said:

I would say that Ephesians 2 indicates that sinners need to be raised by God in order for them to be able to believe. Colossians 2:13 is similar:

“And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,” (Col 2:13 NKJV)

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Does "Colossians 2:13" state how or when He made us alive - before or after believing?

If not, why are you using "Colossians 2:13" to prove your assumption? You prove nothing by quoting it.

David Lamb said:

No mention of the dead having to stir themselves to exhibit faith. That would seem rather like Lazarus in his tomb. He couldn't do anything until Jesus miraculously restored him to life.

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You are using human reasoning to explain away God's Words. Do you realize that? Lord Jesus never used Lazarus' resurrection to teach that a person dead in sin has to be made alive so he can believe. Never does the New Testament teach this anywhere.

Lord Jesus taught that we receive life from death by faith:

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in me, even if he should die, he will live.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 Most certainly I tell you, he who hears [listens to] my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Do you believe God's Word, or the assumptions of men?

David Lamb said:

I believe those scriptures tell us of the absolute necessity of believing on the Lord Jesus Christ in order to be saved. We are not made alive by believing; we cannot believe when we are dead in trespasses and sins.

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That is your assumption. You have shown no Scripture that teaches this. Rather you are insinuating your doctrine into "Colossians 2:13."

David Lamb said:

A similar picture is provided by Jesus in His words to Nicodemus, "You must be born again." Now, no baby of its own volition, causes itself to be born. Similarly, sinners don't give themselves the new birth.

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Does Lord Jesus teach "when" we are born again in "John 3:1-18"?

Yes, he does in John 3:14-18. Eternal Life in us is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, and is by faith.

John 3:14 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but may have eternal life.

That is what Lord Jesus replied to Nicodemus' question, "How can these things be?"

Do you believe what Lord Jesus replied to Nicodemus about being born again?

setst777 said:

Does "Colossians 2:13" state how or when He made us alive - before or after believing?

If not, why are you using "Colossians 2:13" to prove your assumption? You prove nothing by quoting it.

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Sorry if I was unclear. I only mentioned Colossians 2:13 because you mentioned tat verse in your post. You wrote "“Death to life” (Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13) is only by Faith"

I quoted it to show that it doesn't mention faith.

setst777 said:

You are using human reasoning to explain away God's Words. Do you realize that? Lord Jesus never used Lazarus' resurrection to teach that a person dead in sin has to be made alive so he can believe. Never does the New Testament teach this anywhere.

Lord Jesus taught that we receive life from death by faith:

John 11:25 I am the resurrection and the life; the one believing in me, even if he should die, he will live.

John 5:24 (WEB) 24 Most certainly I tell you, he who hears [listens to] my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Do you believe God's Word, or the assumptions of men?

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Sorry, but I think you are reading far more into what I wrote than I actually said. I only said that saying that a sinner dead in trespasses and sins can stir himself to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is similar to expecting dead Lazarus to stir out of his tomb. I never claimed that Jesus used Lazarus as an illustration of this

setst777 said:

That is your assumption. You have shown no Scripture that teaches this. Rather you are insinuating your doctrine into "Colossians 2:13."

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Sorry (again!) I wasn't insinuating anything into Colossians 2:13. By "those Scriptures," I was referring to the two verses from John's gospel, John 11:25 and John 5:24, which you had quoted, and which my words that you are referring to immediately followed.

setst777 said:

Does Lord Jesus teach "when" we are born again in "John 3:1-18"?

Yes, he does in John 3:14-18. Eternal Life in us is the Holy Spirit dwelling in us, and is by faith.

John 3:14 (WEB) 14 As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him should not perish, but may have eternal life.

That is what Lord Jesus replied to Nicodemus' question, "How can these things be?"

Do you believe what Lord Jesus replied to Nicodemus about being born again?

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My question to you is this: How can a sinner dead in trespasses and sins display faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? I hope we can discuss this as we started, without our posts becoming in anyway unpleasant. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

David Lamb said:

Sorry if I was unclear. I only mentioned Colossians 2:13 because you mentioned tat verse in your post. You wrote "“Death to life” (Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13) is only by Faith"

I quoted it to show that it doesn't mention faith.

Sorry, but I think you are reading far more into what I wrote than I actually said. I only said that saying that a sinner dead in trespasses and sins can stir himself to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ is similar to expecting dead Lazarus to stir out of his tomb. I never claimed that Jesus used Lazarus as an illustration of this

Sorry (again!) I wasn't insinuating anything into Colossians 2:13. By "those Scriptures," I was referring to the two verses from John's gospel, John 11:25 and John 5:24, which you had quoted, and which my words that you are referring to immediately followed.

My question to you is this: How can a sinner dead in trespasses and sins display faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? I hope we can discuss this as we started, without our posts becoming in anyway unpleasant. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

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Your question is:
How can a sinner dead in trespasses and sins display faith in the Lord Jesus Christ?

Here is how the Scriptures teach about how a sinner comes to faith in Lord Jesus:

Romans 10:14-18 – "So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, didn’t they hear? Yes, most certainly, “Their sound went out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”"

The Holy Spirit works with the Gospel (Ephesians 6:17) convicting and drawing a sinful world to Lord Jesus (John 16:8).

Ephesians 6:17 – ‘The Sword of the Spirit is the Word of God’

John 16:8 – “When the Spirit arrives; he will convict the world about sin, about righteousness, and about judgment”

The drawing of God by the Word and Spirit is for all people, for God’s kind intent is to have mercy on all sinners, and all have sinned.

Romans 11:32 – “For God has concluded all in unbelief, so that he might have mercy upon all.”

1 Timothy 2:3-4 – “God desires everyone to be saved and come to a full knowledge of the truth.”

John 12:32 – “When I am lifted up from the earth, then I will draw all people to myself.”

Though God's invitation to all sinners is sincere, the Scriptures warn, sometimes with sorrow, that not all will receive it. God doesn’t desire anyone to perish.

2 Peter 3:9 – ‘The Lord is very patient, not wishing anyone to perish, but that all should come to repentance.’

The "drawing" by the Word and Spirit is not efficacious. Many do refuse the Gospel Call; in that, they resist the Spirit as the Word is proclaimed.

Acts 7:51 – “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit!”

2 Thessalonians 2:10 – “They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

Romans 10:21 – “All day long I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

Matthew 22:3 – “He sent his servants to those who were invited [called] to the banquet to ask them to come, but they refused.”

Even so, God’s will and good pleasure is to save whoever believes by the preaching work, and God shows no favoritism or no partiality in His gracious offer.

John 6:40 – “For [the reason for stating the previous] this is my Father’s will, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have [Grk: eche: subjunctive] eternal life”

1 Corinthians 1:21 – ‘God’s good pleasure is to save all who believe by the foolishness of the preaching.’

Acts 10:34-35 – “34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism. 35 He accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.”

Paul states the following:

1 Corinthians 9:22-23 – " 22 To the weak I became as weak, that I might gain the weak. I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some."

How can God be ok with most people going to hell?​

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How can you be ok with wrongfully condemning people?

@Cygna ^^^