Jesus used PARABLES. Can GOD use Parables in the BOOK of GENESIS?

Osiris · Apr 11, 2003

Yesterday at 10:15 PM Follower of Christ too said this in Post #49

Judas was FULL of greed ! he did a thing in which he could not turn back..This isn't the only time greed has caused men to fall

Someone had to betray Jesus... It was already destined to be that way.
Jesus came here to die, that was his destiny, and whoever caused him to die would "rot in hell along with Satan on his side".  (that would be Judas)
Is it just me, or does this sound like Jesus came here to play a game of "Eternal Death in Hell Comdemnation" tag and Judas was the unlucky person that was tagged by Jesus.

Nathan Poe · Apr 11, 2003

Today at 01:18 AM Osthuvud said this in Post #52

I was surprised at the apparent differences between the accounts.  However, after giving due consideration to four separate accounts by one partial eye-witness and three non-witness writers, they are quite close.  But they are not without discrepancy.

Well of course there's a discrepency, we're taking four testimonies from at least three people who weren't even there! That's not a divine revelation, that's hearsay. And that alone would get it rejected in any court of law.

The only things I really count as discrepancy are some first meetings in Galilee, and some in Jerusalem, and when Peter went to the gravesite.

Then you have no problem with these questions:

Who went to the Tomb?

Why did they go?

Did they see the stone roll back or was it already rolled back when they got there?

How many "angels" were there? Were they angels or just ordinary men?

Did the women tell anyone what they had seen?

Where and to whom did Jesus first appear to after he was resurrected?

What did Jesus say to his disciples when he appeared to them?

When and where did Jesus ascend into heaven?

Otherwise, if these four accounts were given independently to police for an event as involved as this, there would be no problem. 

Only if the police were drunk at the time.

In fact if they were closer, there would possibly be suspicion of collaboration.

So we accept four accounts of the same events as true because they don't match up with each other?

But YES, YOU WERE RIGHT.  <IMG onmouseover="this.style.cursor='hand';" style="CURSOR: hand" onclick="smilie('');" alt=bow src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/bow.gif" border=0>

Now extract your pound of flesh and get it over with!  I need to diet anyway, summer is coming.  <IMG onmouseover="this.style.cursor='hand';" style="CURSOR: hand" onclick="smilie(':o');" alt=what src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/redface.gif" border=0>

Thanks for the chat.

Anytime.

JohnR7 · Apr 11, 2003

Today at 04:24 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #57
John, I think the site is malfunctioning. I seem to be missing the link you of course would have included to support this claim.

Just try the key words Adamic language or Edenic language, there is quite a bit of stuff on the internet.

Outspoken · Apr 11, 2003

"If the Bible proposed the facts, then they weren't unknown after all, now were they?
"

Yes, they were lost in history, that was the point of his example. Please go back and read it again.

"The point is that yes, the Bible does contain some historical facts, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is true."

LOL if you want to be a skeptic, that's cool, then you shouldn't believe anything you read in any science magizine. you only see pictures of planets from ONE source usually, not several, but you always take them as fact...LOL umm..double standard.

Follower of Christ · Apr 11, 2003

"The point is that yes, the Bible does contain some historical facts, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is true."

I always love this one.

WE can accept science without accepting ToE, just as some accept SOME of the bible but not all.

Nathan Poe · Apr 11, 2003

Today at 11:08 PM Outspoken said this in Post #64

"If the Bible proposed the facts, then they weren't unknown after all, now were they?
"

Yes, they were lost in history, that was the point of his example. Please go back and read it again.

"The point is that yes, the Bible does contain some historical facts, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is true."

LOL if you want to be a skeptic, that's cool, then you shouldn't believe anything you read in any science magizine. you only see pictures of planets from ONE source usually, not several, but you always take them as fact...LOL umm..double standard.

Actually, there are several sources for photos of planets, and even if I don't believe them, I can always point my telescope in the right direction and see for myself. Science allows, encourages, and even requires skeptics to check things out for themselves. Religion does not.

Although, as soon as Mr. Peabody warms up the Wayback Machine, we'll be able to check the Bible's accuracy in the same way. So where's the double standard?

Nathan Poe · Apr 11, 2003

Today at 11:28 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #65

"The point is that yes, the Bible does contain some historical facts, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is true."

I always love this one.

WE can accept science without accepting ToE, just as some accept SOME of the bible but not all.

I'm afraid it's not quite that simple. Science is not about "accepting" or "rejecting" unpopular ideas. Science is about looking at the facts and drawing the most likely conclusions.

You don't like the ToE? No problem. But are you rejecting it for "scientific" purposes, or simply because it clashes with your dogma?

Don't like the science? the conclusion based on the observations? Fine. Falsify it.

Have only religious objections? Well then, you're not accepting science.

But look at the bright side: If ToE ever does get falsified, you'll be there to say that you knew it all along.

And btw, what parts of the Bible don't you accept?

Follower of Christ · Apr 11, 2003

Yesterday at 11:57 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #67

I'm afraid it's not quite that simple. Science is not about "accepting" or "rejecting" unpopular ideas. Science is about looking at the facts and drawing the most likely conclusions.

You don't like the ToE? No problem. But are you rejecting it for "scientific" purposes, or simply because it clashes with your dogma?

Don't like the science? the conclusion based on the observations? Fine. Falsify it.

Have only religious objections? Well then, you're not accepting science.

But look at the bright side: If ToE ever does get falsified, you'll be there to say that you knew it all along.

And btw, what parts of the Bible don't you accept?

Sorry, I may have worded that badly.

I accept the whole bible.

I was simply stating that I can accept science and the wonderful things that have been accomplished without accepting that I am 457th cousin to a chimp.

Evolution falsified ????
Not likely to happen.
Even if it were, too many careers depend upon it to just throw it away.

lemmein · Apr 12, 2003

Your #2 is totally UNTRUE, many many times the Disiples  of Jesus could NOT understand what JESUS was understanding.

There are many times the Disciples couldn't understand why the Son of Man needed to die when Jesus spoke of His death.

The Disciples didn't even know at time if Jesus was referring to them personally or the people in general and there is a verse that says exactly that. Can someone recall that one for me.

Here is one, John 10:6
"Jesus used this FIGURE of SPEECH, but they did NOT understand what he was telling them."

REPEAT: the words, "FIGURE OF SPEECH" was USED, not LITERAL

Today at 12:15 AM Tracie said this in Post #58

Just a few responses to things I've read.

#1 - When Jesus was about to tell a parable, He said He was.  That's how you know it is a parable.  The old testament doesn't say "this is a parable". 

#2 - To Osthuvud - The scripture you quoted about why Jesus used parables tells us He used them so the people COULD understand, not so they couldn't.  The deciples didn't need parables because they COULD understand without them. 

#3 - God IS a loving God.  I pray that someday you will know Him so that you will understand this.  Only by His forgiveness will you ever understand how much He loves you.  He even loves those of you who are so obviously hate him or are holding something against him. 

#4 - The Bible tells us that we shouldn't stop at salvation.  Why should we read the Bible if we've given our life to Jesus?  Because by reading God's word we learn His ways.  ( I can't remember the reference...I was just studying it)  When we understand His ways (which we will never fully here on earth) we will be able to live more the way he wants us to.  Why should we pray when he already has a plan?  Because as our Father, he wants us to talk to Him. 

JohnR7 · Apr 12, 2003

Yesterday at 11:28 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #65 

just as some accept SOME of the bible but not all.

Do you accept all of the Bible? When the Bible says you must be born again, have you been born again? When the Bible says you will receive power from on High, have you received power? When we are told we are to lay hand on the sick and they will recover, do the sick recover when you lay hands on them? When we are told to take the gospel to the ends of the world, do you take the gospel to the very ends of the world? When the Bible says we are to be holy, do you live holy before God?

Do you accept all of the Bible? If people accept that the bible is a accurate history book but reject the religion of the people who gave us that history, than at least they accept that much of the Bible as being true. Better than to reject all of it.

lemmein · Apr 12, 2003

YOU have THE SAME ARROGANCE that said everything revolved around the EARTH.

WHY do you denigrate and attack GOD's CREATION, the MONKEY?

Isn't something, like the monkey or the amoeba, created by God, HOLY?

STORY TELLING
Just as in computer history books , they say the newest computers are created by a single grain of sand.  Yet  computers went throught the lowly transistor tube, x86 chip, 386, 486, etc.... and the different variations in between and so on. YET these same computer books do not go through the ENDLESS models and types of chips created.

They say GREAT COMPANIES where created from a LOWLY Back yard Garage.....yet in do these history book go through each the day by day history of the business, NO!!!!! THEY DON'T

DO YOU SEE HOW GREAT STORIES ARE TOLD?

Do you know why God used the Monkey to create MAN?  Because GOD is EFFICIENT from the START and makes things correct from the START.  Why start from SCATCH if you don't have TO?

Was the Pentium computer build straight from scratch?  NO it wasn't. The Pentium certainly used the existing technology and knowledge of previous versions.

GOD's POSSIBLE CONVERSATION with MOSES
Let's say that God did take BILLIONS of YEARs, Do you see God speaking to Moses, "Well Moses, do you know what the word, "billion" means?  How about DNA? Are you familiar with that term? It's going to take a while for you to write this all down. I mean there are going to be some people out there who need the complete historical record of everything that every happened.  You know what, we are going to need some more forests because it's going to take a lot of paper. "

CAN YOU SEE CLEARLY NOW.......

Today at 05:20 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #68

Sorry, I may have worded that badly.

I accept the whole bible.

I was simply stating that I can accept science and the wonderful things that have been accomplished without accepting that I am 457th cousin to a chimp.

Evolution falsified ????
Not likely to happen.
Even if it were, too many careers depend upon it to just throw it away.

Aceldama · Apr 12, 2003

Well said! :clap:

Today at 11:11 AM lemmein said this in Post #71

YOU have THE SAME ARROGANCE that said everything revolved around the EARTH.

WHY do you denigrate and attack GOD's CREATION, the MONKEY?

Isn't something, like the monkey or the amoeba, created by God, HOLY?

STORY TELLING
Just as in computer history books , they say the newest computers are created by a single grain of sand.  Yet  computers went throught the lowly transistor tube, x86 chip, 386, 486, etc.... and the different variations in between and so on. YET these same computer books do not go through the ENDLESS models and types of chips created.

They say GREAT COMPANIES where created from a LOWLY Back yard Garage.....yet in do these history book go through each the day by day history of the business, NO!!!!! THEY DON'T

DO YOU SEE HOW GREAT STORIES ARE TOLD?

Do you know why God used the Monkey to create MAN?  Because GOD is EFFICIENT from the START and makes things correct from the START.  Why start from SCATCH if you don't have TO?

Was the Pentium computer build straight from scratch?  NO it wasn't. The Pentium certainly used the existing technology and knowledge of previous versions.

GOD's POSSIBLE CONVERSATION with MOSES
Let's say that God did take BILLIONS of YEARs, Do you see God speaking to Moses, "Well Moses, do you know what the word, "billion" means?  How about DNA? Are you familiar with that term? It's going to take a while for you to write this all down. I mean there are going to be some people out there who need the complete historical record of everything that every happened.  You know what, we are going to need some more forests because it's going to take a lot of paper. "

CAN YOU SEE CLEARLY NOW.......

Nathan Poe · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 12:20 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #68

Sorry, I may have worded that badly.

I accept the whole bible.

I was simply stating that I can accept science and the wonderful things that have been accomplished without accepting that I am 457th cousin to a chimp.

I'm going to ignore the strawman here, and stay on topic.

Why can't you accept this? Because you think the reasoning is flawed, or just becasue you don't want to be the 457th cousin to a chimp?

Science is not about personal likes and dislikes. It goes where the evidence points to. Think of it as a car. You're saying you like the car when it takes you to the Amusement park, but you hate it when it takes you to school.

Why are you blaming the car?

Evolution falsified ????
Not likely to happen.

Well, we agree on something.

Even if it were, too many careers depend upon it to just throw it away.

Yep, careers such as biology, zoology, and medicine, which probably wouldn't get too far if they were based on a wrong idea.

Follower of Christ · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 04:51 AM JohnR7 said this in Post #70

Do you accept all of the Bible? When the Bible says you must be born again, have you been born again? When the Bible says you will receive power from on High, have you received power? When we are told we are to lay hand on the sick and they will recover, do the sick recover when you lay hands on them? When we are told to take the gospel to the ends of the world, do you take the gospel to the very ends of the world? When the Bible says we are to be holy, do you live holy before God?

Do you accept all of the Bible? If people accept that the bible is a accurate history book but reject the religion of the people who gave us that history, than at least they accept that much of the Bible as being true. Better than to reject all of it.

I accept the entire bible as written.

-Born again of the spirit? yes.

-Recieved power on high? I would like to point out that some things were for a specific time. I was not around for that day of Pentecost.

-I am not real sure what you're asking because if you are saying that everytime a christians lays hands on the sick that they are healed, then I most definetly would like to check back with those healed folks to see where how they feel today.

-taking the Gospel to the ends of the earth. This is probably the one that means the most to me. I try to do what I can in this as I have a wife and children to tend to. Also this is another point where not everyone will be participating in the same manner. Long ago, I made the foolsh mistake of thinking everyone had to do as I was in spreading the gospel. This is not true, we all have a part to play as we are all part of the body of Christ and we are not all hands or all feet.

-Do I live Holy. I decided each day when I wake up to see if I can go that day without doing anything that I know that offends God. Some days I make it, Some days I dont. But the effort is constant.

''If people accept that the bible is a accurate history book but reject the religion of the people who gave us that history, than at least they accept that much of the Bible as being true. Better than to reject all of it''

Not so, it says ''even the demons believe, and tremble''
Even BELIEVING in God will not save.
Without FAITH it is impossible to please Him.

JohnR7 · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 11:16 AM Follower of Christ said this in Post #74

-Born again of the spirit? yes.

-Recieved power on high? I would like to point out that some things were for a specific time. I was not around for that day of Pentecost. 

There are lots of scriptures that talk about the same thing, lets try another one, sense you were not there to hear Peter's sermon.

Luke 3:16
    John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Have you been baptized with both the Holy Spirit and with fire?

-Do I live Holy. I decided each day when I wake up to see if I can go that day without doing anything that I know that offends God. Some days I make it, Some days I dont. But the effort is constant.

At least your on the right road. They teach us to start every day in prayer, seeking God for Him to show us how to be well pleasing to Him that day. Also we pray and ask God to give us the strength and all we need to be well pleasing to Him. So that we can be as much like Jesus as we can, in that the Father was always well pleased with Jesus. Sort of like that book that was popular recently, What Would Jesus Do?

Pete Harcoff · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 06:11 AM lemmein said this in Post #71

GOD's POSSIBLE CONVERSATION with MOSES
Let's say that God did take BILLIONS of YEARs, Do you see God speaking to Moses, "Well Moses, do you know what the word, "billion" means?  How about DNA? Are you familiar with that term? It's going to take a while for you to write this all down. I mean there are going to be some people out there who need the complete historical record of everything that every happened.  You know what, we are going to need some more forests because it's going to take a lot of paper. "

CAN YOU SEE CLEARLY NOW.......

I am still amazed that there are people out there who completely ignore the time period and cultural context in which the Bible was originally written. Sometimes I think these Biblical literalists would be happier if we went back to living in mud huts and spent every waking moment just trying to maintain the basic necessities for survival.

JohnR7 · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 02:02 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #76 
Sometimes I think these Biblical literalists would be happier if we went back to living in mud huts and spent every waking moment just trying to maintain the basic necessities for survival.

The people that I know who live in mud huts, seem to spend most of their time complaining about not being able to find a job anywhere. Although to be sure, their life would be easier if they had a machine to till the ground with. There is a village in India that we have been trying to do a little bit to help out. I know it is a dream for the village there, to come up with $2000 to buy a power tiller so they can plant their crops and feed the children. It amazed me how few people I have been able to find, who would even be willing to contribute $20 toward that project.

http://community.webshots.com/album/52246004fqsMVm

Follower of Christ · Apr 12, 2003

Today at 01:37 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #75

There are lots of scriptures that talk about the same thing, lets try another one, sense you were not there to hear Peter's sermon.

Luke 3:16
    John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Have you been baptized with both the Holy Spirit and with fire?

How about I just answer this question the way you probably need me to

No, I am not Pentecostal, Apostolic or in of the Holiness denominations.
Do I believe in this ''baptism'' you speak?
Yes, very much so as It is scriptural.

Do I believe that the initial evidence is speaking in tongues?
No I do not for every person.
Some do, some dont.

And Yes, I have spoken in tongues and it had nothing to do with the baptism of fire.
Do I desire to speak in tongues again?
I would much rather be able to lead one to Christ without the theatrics and have them just rely on simple faith in Jesus.

Tongues is not for every believer. To say it is goes agianst scripture.

Hope I havent offended. I just wanted to let you know what I think about the Baptism you ask about.

q123 · Apr 13, 2003

Yesterday at 11:11 AM lemmein said this in Post #71

YOU have THE SAME ARROGANCE that said everything revolved around the EARTH.

WHY do you denigrate and attack GOD's CREATION, the MONKEY?

Isn't something, like the monkey or the amoeba, created by God, HOLY?

STORY TELLING
Just as in computer history books , they say the newest computers are created by a single grain of sand.  Yet  computers went throught the lowly transistor tube, x86 chip, 386, 486, etc.... and the different variations in between and so on. YET these same computer books do not go through the ENDLESS models and types of chips created.

They say GREAT COMPANIES where created from a LOWLY Back yard Garage.....yet in do these history book go through each the day by day history of the business, NO!!!!! THEY DON'T

DO YOU SEE HOW GREAT STORIES ARE TOLD?

Do you know why God used the Monkey to create MAN?  Because GOD is EFFICIENT from the START and makes things correct from the START.  Why start from SCATCH if you don't have TO?

Was the Pentium computer build straight from scratch?  NO it wasn't. The Pentium certainly used the existing technology and knowledge of previous versions.

GOD's POSSIBLE CONVERSATION with MOSES
Let's say that God did take BILLIONS of YEARs, Do you see God speaking to Moses, "Well Moses, do you know what the word, "billion" means?  How about DNA? Are you familiar with that term? It's going to take a while for you to write this all down. I mean there are going to be some people out there who need the complete historical record of everything that every happened.  You know what, we are going to need some more forests because it's going to take a lot of paper. "

CAN YOU SEE CLEARLY NOW.......

Follower of Christ · Apr 13, 2003

Today at 06:18 AM q123 said this in Post #79

 

What was this, a brownie point post???

OOHH...better be careful or you'll blow your cover banned one

Jesus used PARABLES. Can GOD use Parables in the BOOK of GENESIS?

Übermensch

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Standing in the Gap

Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

You may enter up to 25 ch

Well-Known Member

Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

Well-Known Member

PeteAce - In memory of WinAce

Well-Known Member

Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

Member

Literal 6 Day Creationist<br />''An Evening and a

Similar threads