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Christian History in 15 minutes
- Thread starter Meester-Chung
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timothyu
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Man is never content enough to just do as we are told by God, but driven to analyse why. It puts us back in the drivers seat and we've stolen the vehicle. Stick to caring for each other as commanded while He takes care of the rest.
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Nonsense. The only unfruitful aspect is the enduring schisms which began with Byzantine and Frankish politics and which were exacerbated by later corruption in the Roman church leading to the Reformation and Counter-Reformation (nothing like that has ever happened in the Christian East, which are neither Reformed nor counter-Reformed, because the constant fruit of martyrs we bear under Islamic and Communist persecution results in us not having the time for schism and heresy).
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@Meester-Chung
Thank you for your lovely posts; out of curiosity are you of the same Evangelical Catholic disposition as my LCMS/LCC friends @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis and @Ain't Zwinglian ?
The complexity with the Ecumenical Councils is that the Oriental Orthodox as they are now known were falsely accused of Monophysitism by Ibas, a crypto-Nestorian, when in fact their Christology was merely that of St. Cyril; conversely, the accusation one finds among some OO extremists (I’ve only really seen it from Armenian nationalists and Ethiopian monastics) that the Eastern Orthodox are Nestorians is also in error. Also while the Church of the East did come under the influence of Nestorian-aligned scholars from the School of Antioch who self-exiled to Nisibis, (and there is some evidence to suggest they exploited what was perceived as a minor theological dispute by some, in order to avoid persecution by the Sassanid Persian regime), during the time of Mar Babai the Great, the Church of the East renounced Nestorian Christology in favor of a Syriac translation of Chalcedonian Christology (which some people argue was still Nestorian, however, Nestorianism was expressly renounced by Catholicos Mar Dinkha IV, memory eternal, in 1974, although he spoke only for the Assyrian Church of the East, but given the cordial relations that existed not only between his church and the Syriac Orthodox, but between the Ancient Church of the East under Catholicos Mar Addai II, memory eternal, and the Syriac Orthodox , it seems likely this sentiment also exists in both groups. Certainly St. Isaac the Syrian, a monk of the Church of the East venerated by all four communions - the Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics, did not exhibit any trace of Nestorianism in his writings (although in recently translated texts by Sebastian Brock, we do see a belief in Apokatastasis, that was known to be popular in the Church of the East in the late first millenium; this belief also appears in the Book of the Bee, by Mar Solomon of Basra. However this belief is also no longer mainstream among the Church of the East.
Thank you for your lovely posts; out of curiosity are you of the same Evangelical Catholic disposition as my LCMS/LCC friends @MarkRohfrietsch @ViaCrucis and @Ain't Zwinglian ?
The complexity with the Ecumenical Councils is that the Oriental Orthodox as they are now known were falsely accused of Monophysitism by Ibas, a crypto-Nestorian, when in fact their Christology was merely that of St. Cyril; conversely, the accusation one finds among some OO extremists (I’ve only really seen it from Armenian nationalists and Ethiopian monastics) that the Eastern Orthodox are Nestorians is also in error. Also while the Church of the East did come under the influence of Nestorian-aligned scholars from the School of Antioch who self-exiled to Nisibis, (and there is some evidence to suggest they exploited what was perceived as a minor theological dispute by some, in order to avoid persecution by the Sassanid Persian regime), during the time of Mar Babai the Great, the Church of the East renounced Nestorian Christology in favor of a Syriac translation of Chalcedonian Christology (which some people argue was still Nestorian, however, Nestorianism was expressly renounced by Catholicos Mar Dinkha IV, memory eternal, in 1974, although he spoke only for the Assyrian Church of the East, but given the cordial relations that existed not only between his church and the Syriac Orthodox, but between the Ancient Church of the East under Catholicos Mar Addai II, memory eternal, and the Syriac Orthodox , it seems likely this sentiment also exists in both groups. Certainly St. Isaac the Syrian, a monk of the Church of the East venerated by all four communions - the Church of the East, the Oriental Orthodox, the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics, did not exhibit any trace of Nestorianism in his writings (although in recently translated texts by Sebastian Brock, we do see a belief in Apokatastasis, that was known to be popular in the Church of the East in the late first millenium; this belief also appears in the Book of the Bee, by Mar Solomon of Basra. However this belief is also no longer mainstream among the Church of the East.
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Uh, Christianity was meant as an insult. It means "little Christ." And guess what? Jesus was Jewish. I know, this is shocking to hear for some people. But don't worry, because Jesus is still Jewish. You could make a religion out of this...
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David Lamb
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Where do you find the idea that "Christian" means "little Christ"? The word "Christian" is formed from the title "Christ" and the suffix "ian" which comes from the Latin for "of" or "belonging to."
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Wrong. In Latin “Little Christ” would be “Christulus.” The Latinate -ian format from which the word “Christian” was derived meant “followers of” or “belonging to” Christ, in Greek the -ianos format as heard in Antioch where the Believers were first called Christians and recorded in the New Testament with no critical commentary (Acts 11:26) it could also mean “little Christ” but not in a literal diminutive but rather an associative diminutive format, in that in calling us Christians, they are saying we are followers of or little Christs in Greek, which is accurate, because that is literally what being a disciple of Christ is - to be a follower of Him, to seek to become by grace what He is by nature.
According to inheritance, yes, however, Jesus Christ abolished the practice of Second Temple Judaism and established the New Covenant, his Ekklesia or Church, the belief in which we confess in the Nicene Creed, which I would assume you agree with (since the Nicene Creed is the normative definition of Christianity in its Constantinopolitan 381 recension).
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Have you read the Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians?
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither male nor female, for all are one in Christ Jesus.”
The New Covenant was made with all of humanity - and Christ expressly set in motion the conversion of the Gentiles even before the events of Acts (see, for example, the miracles He performed for the Canaanite woman and the healing of the Centurion’s servant in Matthew 8 / Luke 7.
So I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here but you’re delivering it in a belligerent manner which ignores historical context and seems worded to offend traditional Christians such as myself.
Also please verify whether or not you agree with the Nicene Creed because I don’t even want to be having this conversation with someone who does not adhere to Nicene doctrine vis a vis the Trinity, the Incarnation and so on.
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We don't say male and female are the same. The same is true for Jews and Gentiles.
That is not my intention. I am just sick and tired of the "Church" denying the Jewish roots of Jesus for the sake of "historical context," rather than what the Bible says.
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Which Church?
My Church openly affirms that Christ was a Jew, as were His Apostles, and celebrates the Holy Prophets and Patriarchs of Judaism.
The only people I know of who deny the Jewish roots of Christ our True God are adherents of various heretical sects that share the beliefs of Marcion of Sinope, a first century heretic who attempted to claim that Christ was not the son of YHWH and who rejected the validity of the Old Testament, and of other related sects sometimes referred to as “Gnostics” who usually also rejected, or in the case of Marcion, heavily modified, the New Testament, introducing or augmenting it with their own apocrypha such as the Tripartite Tractate, the Pistis Sophia and so on.
These cults have been having a resurgence of late, both among those interested in the Occult, and through heretical sects like Christian Science, and in the form of “Positive Christianity”, a movement directly connected to National Socialism (that is to say, the Nazi Party, the NSDAP that killed millions of Jews and dissenting Christians like St. Dietrich Bonhoeffer during the Holocaust in WWII and killed millions of Orthodox Christians during the invasion of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (which had also been killing the same Christians) after previously being in an alliance with the same USSR to kill other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians and Jews in the Baltic States and Poland (the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact).
However all mainstream Christian denominations denounce these beliefs and we Orthodox Christians regard them as not only heretical but as anti-Semitic and racist.
Additionally, the largest numbers of Christians of Jewish heritage are in the Assyrian, Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches and related Eastern Catholic Chruches specifically, in the Antiochian Orthodox, Alexandrian Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Tewahedo Orthodox, Eritrean Tewahedo Orthodox, Melkite Greek Catholic, Assyrian Church of the East, Chaldean Catholic, Syro Malabar Catholic, Syriac Orthodox, and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, and the Indian Orthodox, and the Malankara Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Churches of India.
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To get my point across better, I will ask you a question.
Do you celebrate Easter or Passover?
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Passover is a shadow of its fulfilment in the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus. We celebrate the fulfilment, not the shadow.
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And the Bible never says that we should celebrate Easter over Passover.
Christ abolished nothing. He fulfilled. He says that nothing will pass away until He returns.
This is just a plain rejection of what the Bible explicitly states for the sake of Gentile traditions which are influenced by Pagan thought.
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Your response is typical of the ignorant nonsense spouted by modern churches with no historical link to the early Church.
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