Atheists: Don't deny your God!!

Nathan Poe · Apr 10, 2003

Today at 08:45 PM Willowolf said this in Post #52

Lucaspa, The Bible is God's Word. No where in the Bible does it say God created an evolutionary process.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God created bell-bottom pants, Rap music, the internet, or the cure for polio. Yet here they are.

Genesis 1:21
" And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good."

God Created and they were. Notice it says He created "after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind..."
God didn't create one or a few simple creatures and allow them to evolve into the existing kinds.

Where is the kangaroo? I've read the Bible cover to cover and found no kangaroos whatsoever. What "kind" are they?

Also suspiciously absent are the dung beetle, the English Sheepdog, the hammerhead shark, the hermit crab, the black widow spider, the bobcat, and the emporer penguin. This raises some questions:

1: what "kinds" are these?

2: how did Noah fit them all on the ark? Since you put so much faith in a literal Bible, where did he put the English Sheepdogs? (Away from the Bobcats, I hope)

If you accept evolution you deny God, you are therefore an atheist.

God Bless, Willowolf

If you accept evolution you deny a word-for-word literal interptretation of the first two chapters of the book of Genesis, and are therefore a pretty rational and levelheaded person.

WinAce · Apr 10, 2003

Today at 08:29 PM lucaspa said this in Post #43

(1) Is that the same as two wrongs make a right?

Well, neither posting condescending Bible verses nor jokingly replying to them in like is a "wrong", so why do you ask?

(2) Depends on the methodology.  Since we are looking for a very small difference between groups -- since you can't have a control group without intercessory prayer -- I haven't seen a study with the power necessary to say conclusively there is no effect.

Click to expand...

I suppose if one of those is ever produced, theists could still rationalize it away somehow... they always do.

OTOH, there have been several good studies showing an effect of intercessory prayer! Care to discuss those?  Would you accept these as evidence of the existence of God? Why or why not?

Click to expand...

A physical effect linked to prayer would certainly hint that something weird was going on behind the scenes. I suppose after that's established, one could do studies on the comparative effects between praying to different gods or doing various other superstitious invocations.

Why, where there any studies that weren't biased as badly as that Byrd study and that showed prayer had a statistically significant effect?

Arikay · Apr 10, 2003

He isn't eternal

Yes he is.

He didn't create the universe and all that is therein

Yes he did.

He didn't create me

Yes he did.

He didn't help humanity as God helped his chosen people Israel

Yes he did.

He didn't send His only son to die on the cross for my sins

He sent himself.

He didn't give us his holy word the Bible

Nope, he gave them to use, inside ourselves, where no other can tamper with them (as has happend with the bible)

He doesn't answer prayers

Yes he does.

He doesn't intercede on my behalf before the throne of God

He is god, talk to him dirrectly.

He isn't preparing a place for me in heaven

Yes he is.

He isn't coming back for me one day

Yes he is.

Isnt this fun. Now that I have destroyed your reasons, you must believe in "Odin" or be comdemned.

Today at 05:56 PM Willowolf said this in Post #58

Hey Arikay
I wouldn't accept "odin" because
He isn't eternal
He didn't create the universe and all that is therein
He didn't create me
He didn't help humanity as God helped his chosen people Israel
He didn't send His only son to die on the cross for my sins
He didn't give us his holy word the Bible
He doesn't answer prayers
He doesn't intercede on my behalf before the throne of God
He isn't preparing a place for me in heaven
He isn't coming back for me one day

God Bless, Willowolf

MartinM · Apr 10, 2003

Today at 01:59 AM Nathan Poe said this in Post #61 Nowhere in the Bible does it say that God created bell-bottom pants...Yet here they are

Pretty conclusive disproof of God, if you ask me.

Zadok001 · Apr 10, 2003

Sheesh. This thread is cicular in the extreme. Willowolf. You believe God exists because the Bible tells you God exists and the Bible is infalliable because God wrote the Bible, which implies God exists. Your logic is as follows:

1. God exists.
2. God wrote the Bible.
3. Therefore, the Bible is infalliable.
4. The Bible tells me God exists.
5. Therefore, God exists.

See the problem here?

Nathan Poe · Apr 10, 2003

Today at 09:01 PM MartinM said this in Post #64

Pretty conclusive disproof of God, if you ask me.

Well, if you accept that God created Man in His image, then the existence of Carrot Top is what does it for me.

Willowolf · Apr 10, 2003

Zakok001, the atheists logic is as follows:

1. God does not exist.
2. God did not write the Bible.
3. The Bible is fallible.
4. The Bible does not tell me God exists.
5. Therefore, God does not exist.

See the problem here?

MartinM · Apr 10, 2003

Yes. The problem here is that you're making this up as you go.

Osiris · Apr 10, 2003

Today at 09:02 PM Zadok001 said this in Post #65

Sheesh. This thread is cicular in the extreme. Willowolf. You believe God exists because the Bible tells you God exists and the Bible is infalliable because God wrote the Bible, which implies God exists. Your logic is as follows:

1. God exists.
2. God wrote the Bible.
3. Therefore, the Bible is infalliable.
4. The Bible tells me God exists.
5. Therefore, God exists.

See the problem here?

1. Odin exists
2. Odin wrote the statement through Arikay in this post that he exists.
3. Therefore, Arikay's words are infalliable
4. Arikay's post tells me Odin exists
5. Therefore, Odin exists 

Jerry Smith · Apr 10, 2003

Joseph Ford has said: 'More than most, [scientists] are content to live with unanswered questions.'

Joseph Ford, the "evangelist of chaos", Georgia Tech? I met him! (My only little brush with fame.) He even gave me some one-on-one (one-on-two if you count my friend Royce) instruction under the thin veil of Freshman Undergrad Independant Study Not For Credit. I have to admit that I learned more from reading Gleick (Gork!) than from the lips of the Evangelist, but still, I can say I was there.

Willowolf · Apr 10, 2003

Where is all this Odin stuff coming from?

MartinM · Apr 10, 2003

You're right, I reckon my Ogdar the Mighty, Overlord of the Seventh-and-a-half Plane of Overbearing Flamingoes stuff is better.

Zadok001 · Apr 10, 2003

"1. God does not exist.
2. God did not write the Bible.
3. The Bible is fallible.
4. The Bible does not tell me God exists.
5. Therefore, God does not exist."

*beep,* wrong.

1. If the Bible were infalliable, it would contain only true statements.
2. The Bible contains contradictions and historic information which is fallacious.
3. Therefore, the Bible is falliable.
4. The Bible says God exists.
5. Since the Bible is falliable, it is not necessarily the case that God exists.
6. I find no evidence for God in empirical reality.
7. By merit of the lack of evidence presented to me, I CHOOSE not to believe in God.

Note: I'm not concluding "God doesn't exist." Atheists don't make that claim. Atheists merely say "I do not believe God exists."

Arikay · Apr 10, 2003

From Odin of course.

His spirit inhabits me and speaks his perfect word through me.

Today at 06:51 PM Willowolf said this in Post #71

Where is all this Odin stuff coming from?

MartinM · Apr 10, 2003

Note: I'm not concluding "God doesn't exist." Atheists don't make that claim. Atheists merely say "I do not believe God exists."

Well, that's true of most of us. There are some hardcore atheists who go further.

Zadok001 · Apr 10, 2003

MartinM:

Yah, but they're nutballs.

I don't think anyone can rationally say "I know for a fact that there is no God," since the concept of God is inherently non-falsifiable.

I think most of those folks just don't understand the fallacy of what they're saying - If they understood the rules of logical reasoning, they wouldn't say those things.

Willowolf · Apr 10, 2003

Hey Zadok001,
Quote:
"2. The Bible contains contradictions and historic information which is fallacious."

Show me in the bible some of these contradictions and fallacies. Don't give me some quotes from a magazine. Do the study for yourself.

God Bless, Willowolf

MartinM · Apr 10, 2003

Yah, but they're nutballs

True enough.

Arikay · Apr 10, 2003

Yeah, I think some people get confused about atheists.

Generally most atheists are what we would call weak atheists. But most atheists seem to get catagorized as Strong atheists.

A weak atheist doesnt believe in god, but knows they have no proof in the non existance of god. However, for one reason or another, those have chosen not to believe in god.

Today at 06:55 PM MartinM said this in Post #75

Well, that's true of most of us. There are some hardcore atheists who go further.

Zadok001 · Apr 10, 2003

Willowolf:

Apologists are remarkably capable of making any contradictions in the Bible appear to not be contradictory. My personal favorite is the failed value of pi in Kings 7:23. Now, any person reading that with an open mind would conclude that the book is clearly wrong - Pi does not equal 3.

But hey, if you start from the assumption the Bible is infalliable, you can explain it away by twisting around the words.

Since it's clear you are not the most rational, even minded person in the world (neither am I, btw), I don't expect you to accept any contradictions or historical fallacies in the Bible I bring up. I'm not going to be able to convert you, so why try? All that matters is that I *FIND* the Bible to have fallacies. As such, I *FIND* it is not infalliable.

But here's a challenge for you. Find some mathematician somewhere, and explain to him that you found a circular pool with a diameter of 10 meters and a circumfrence of 30. This individual will NOT have started the conversation with the assumption that you are infalliable, and he will instantly conclude that you are incorrect in your statement. This little experiment should show you fairly conclusively that a person taking this statement with no prior bias will find it to be wrong.

Hence, you must approach the Bible with a pre-determined disposition that it is correct in order to conclude that it is correct.

Atheists: Don't deny your God!!

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