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Which denomination is the right one?

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Fervent

Fervent

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AV1611VET said:
I can't fully understand this sentence.

But it looks like you hit on the right answer:

"The most prominent figures in the movement."

Do you know what would have happened to any church back then who put "Baptist" or "Anabaptist" on their name, and the Catholics and Protestants found it?
Click to expand...
Your entire question is incredibly anachronistic, and is nothing but a distraction. I'm not going to engage in a game of speculative hypotheticals, that's not evidentiary support. So far, it seems that the only thing you have to go on is the writings of a 20th century baptist minister and seem to think that "Who are you going to believe, this baptist minister or thousands of professional scholars?" is a good argument. So rather than asking me to suppose things, how about you provide some historical documentation of baptist doctrine prior to the 16th century anabaptists.
 
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AV1611VET

AV1611VET

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Fervent said:
Your entire question is incredibly anachronistic, and is nothing but a distraction.
Click to expand...

Then have a good day.

It was nice meeting and chatting with you.

Fervent said:
I'm not going to engage in a game of speculative hypotheticals, that's not evidentiary support.
Click to expand...

The only reason I'm under fire by you guys is because I dared answer the OP as it was written, isn't it?

You guys surely won't.

But I will.

I'm not afraid to.

Fervent said:
So far, it seems that the only thing you have to go on is the writings of a 20th century baptist minister and seem to think that "Who are you going to believe, this baptist minister or thousands of professional scholars?"
Click to expand...

Then you haven't read the pamphlet, have you?

On pages 75 & 76 are seventy-nine (if I counted right) sources listed.

Including the Encyclopedia Britannica.

Fervent said:
So rather than asking me to suppose things, how about you provide some historical documentation of baptist doctrine prior to the 16th century anabaptists.
Click to expand...

Right.

Everyone was writing everyone else and making their chances of celebrating their next birthday moot, weren't they?

Have a good day, sir.
 
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Fervent

Fervent

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AV1611VET said:
Then have a good day.

It was nice meeting and chatting with you.
Click to expand...
Nice meeting and chatting with you as well.
AV1611VET said:
The only reason I'm under fire by you guys is because I dared answer the OP as it was written, isn't it?

You guys surely won't.

But I will.

I'm not afraid to.
Click to expand...
You're not "under fire," you're being asked to support your claims.
AV1611VET said:
The you haven't read the pamphlet, have you?

On pages 75 & 76 are seventy-nine (if I counted right) sources listed.

Including the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Click to expand...
Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to generate a few for us to look at, should it? So why instead do you turn to suppositions?
AV1611VET said:
Right.

Everyone was writing everyone else and making their chances of celebrating their next birthday moot, weren't they?

Have a good day, sir.
Click to expand...
Historical documentation exists, whether or not "everyone" was doing it. If the author of trail of blood didn't just make up the notion that these groups were baptist, how did he know? How did he know that these groups, who the historical record shows believed things very different from what baptists of any stripe believe, were actually secretly baptist all along?
 
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AV1611VET

AV1611VET

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Fervent said:
Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to generate a few for us to look at, should it?
Click to expand...

Didn't you say this earlier:

I'm stating what I have gleaned from reading the historical sources,

Makes me wonder what information was censored before it got to you.
 
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Fervent

Fervent

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AV1611VET said:
Didn't you say this earlier:

I'm stating what I have gleaned from reading the historical sources,

Makes me wonder what information was censored before it got to you.
Click to expand...
I can't help but notice you didn't answer my questions. Why should we trust trail of blood over mountains of textual evidence that contradicts it? If the historical record was tampered with to such an extent that the historical documents that exist are all untrustworthy, how did the author of trail of blood come by his knowledge of history? When and why did that censorship stop, to allow trail of blood to be proliferated in the first place? What makes Carroll a more trustworthy source over, say, Augustine, on what the Donatists believed? Where did he get his information on them?
 
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AV1611VET

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Fervent said:
I can't help but notice you didn't answer my questions.
Click to expand...

That's because one answer generates more questions.

I would assume the answers you're looking for are embedded in those seventy-nine references provided by the pamphlet.

Including the Encyclopedia Britannica.
 
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Aaron Rich

Aaron Rich

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TheCabinetGuy said:
Was the Pope crucified for you?
Was Luther crucified for you?
Was Calvin crucified for you?
Was Wesley crucified for you?
Was Miller crucified for you?
Fill in the blank...

In my hometown, there were only 4 churches nearby to choose from. But when I moved to Belton, MO I was overwhelmed with all the different churches to choose from. I knew that they couldn't all be right. Made me start studying church history...

Some splits were about baptism, or spiritual gifts, or the Sabbath, or the color of carpet, etc. but the biggest thing is a disconnect with the Jewish roots of the faith.

Jesus is Jewish, the Bible was written by Jews, and Christianity started out as a sect of Judaism called the Messianics or the followers of "The Way."

If you are blessed to have a Messianic synagogue near you, that would be my suggestion. As long as they aren't Sacred Namers, or teaching weird Kabbalah stuff (Jewish mysticism/ gnosticism), or using the writings of the Pharisees such as the Talmud as authoritative.

If you happen to be in Kansas City, Or HaOlam Messianic Congregation is a great choice. Was going there for several years until I moved to Texas.
Click to expand...
I agree with TheCabinetGuy. Messianic Jewish would be my answer.

It's the closest I've found to what is described by the Apostles regarding the first-century Body of Messiah. They strive to strip away all the Western mentality that disguises the Jewishness of Jesus and significantly distorts the authorial intent of the Apostle's writings.

Is it perfect? No. Everyone in the Messianic Jewish circle is just as fallible as the next person you meet.

Does my opinion that Messianic Jewish is the right denominational view mean I even remotely believe that's the only denomination with people who are saved? No. I'm around a lot of different people from a lot of different denominational backgrounds and it's obvious they are all worshipping the same God I am. We may disagree on a few (or many) points. But the goal is to have a constructive relationship in spite of those differences.
 
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Yusuphhai

Yusuphhai

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Messianic will recognize himself as a part of the entire Israeli family. The revival of the Messianic perspective also influenced the Eastern world. Samaria, Edom, and Ishmael will prioritize the covenant alliance with Judah. Greek and Latin, on the other hand, do not belong to the Semitic people and are not obligated to join race of Middle Eastern, nor are they obligated to adopt Middle Eastern etiquette. I can only say that many ways in which the Holy Spirit works are difficult for me to experience and understand. It is difficult to judge a Christianity form in a different cultural background that I am not familiar with, using my familiar theological system.
 
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