Yesterday at 07:31 PM Ragman said this in Post #253
Yes, the Bible says different. The Spirit of God says different. Paul says different. Jesus says different. Athanasisus says different. Ireneaus says different. Just about everybody except Calvanists say different.
This is not true. And if you will humor me and read all the following scripture before you comment. You see, I once believed the same way you do. But when I finally came to the end of myself and read the bible as God's Holy Word, not something I could turn and twist to suit me, with His guidance I saw the plain truth for what it was.
See my signature, it was written by Paul through inspiration from God. Also see the following:
Words and teaching from Jesus:
Matthew 24:22-24 22And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elects sake those days will be shortened. 23Then if anyone says to you, Look, here is the Christ! or There! do not believe it. 24For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 24:31 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Luke 18:6&7 6Then the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge said. 7And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?
From Paul:
Romans 11:6&7 6And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work. 7What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Colossians 3:12 2Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
2Timothy 2:10 10Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
These verses clearly show that His elect will be saved and others will not.
Romans 8:30 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Ephesians 1:11 11In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
Predestined - "marked out beforehand" But why? Is it because, as many say, He looked into the future and saw that we would choose Him, so he chose us? Doesn't that leave God reacting to us, His creation? Or is He truly sovereign? Sovereign- all powerful, needing nothing from outside of itself, or in this case Himself.
We see that God chooses us not according to anything we do or will do, or may do. He chooses us according to His will for his pleasure alone. See here: Romans 9:13-21 13As it is written, Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.
14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! 15For He says to Moses, I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth. 18Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens. 19You will say to me then, Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will? 20But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, Why have you made me like this? 21Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
Shall I go on?
