Jesus used PARABLES. Can GOD use Parables in the BOOK of GENESIS?

Today at 10:54 PM Zadok001 said this in Post #19

I think we can agree that FoC is denying the possibility rather hastily.

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Is there any reason it would be hastily?

I believed evolution for over a decade, so the decision to take Genesis 1 literally was ANYTHING but hasty.

You shouldnt be like me and jump to hasty conclusions

Today at 04:50 PM Contrarian said this in Post #1

Jesus used PARABLES. Can GOD use Parables in the BOOK of GENESIS? 

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Back in the early 1900's there were a lot of people who were really wondering if the Bible was true historically. Sense then, there have been so many archology finds that no one who has looked into it, questions the historical accuracy of the Bible anymore.

For example, 100 years ago, no one had really heard of the Hittites other than the mention of them in the Bible. But then the archologists found an Ancinet Hittite city in Turkey from around (2000 bc) with 10,000 clay tablets with things on them like treatys, laws and a few stories about their kings. Then down in Egypt they began to find some inscriptions and pictures of Hittites.

The Hittites were the first people to work with iron, and the developed the wheel made out of wood and iron. They had charrots and were fierce in warfare. The Egyptians dreaded them, because they were so fierce in battle. The wheel did not really change much for 4000 years, tell Harvey Firestone came along and developed the rubber tire. The Egyptians adapted it from the Hittites as well as the Sumarians and later on the Greeks.

So now no one questions the historical accuracy of the Bible. No one questions that the people in the Bible are real people. Even now with the work David Rohl has done in researching the Garden in Eden. He feels that Adam and Eve were real people, and there really was a Garden.

When Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, around 1500 bc. written languages and laws had been around for at least 500 years. So a lot of things we find in our Bible, we can find earler records for them on clay tablets.

Yesterday at 11:54 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #22



Back in the early 1900's there were a lot of people who were really wondering if the Bible was true historically. Sense then, there have been so many archology finds that no one who has looked into it, questions the historical accuracy of the Bible anymore.

For example, 100 years ago, no one had really heard of the Hittites other than the mention of them in the Bible. But then the archologists found an Ancinet Hittite city in Turkey from around (2000 bc) with 10,000 clay tablets with things on them like treatys, laws and a few stories about their kings. Then down in Egypt they began to find some inscriptions and pictures of Hittites.

The Hittites were the first people to work with iron, and the developed the wheel made out of wood and iron. They had charrots and were fierce in warfare. The Egyptians dreaded them, because they were so fierce in battle. The wheel did not really change much for 4000 years, tell Harvey Firestone came along and developed the rubber tire. The Egyptians adapted it from the Hittites as well as the Sumarians and later on the Greeks.

So now no one questions the historical accuracy of the Bible. No one questions that the people in the Bible are real people. Even now with the work David Rohl has done in researching the Garden in Eden. He feels that Adam and Eve were real people, and there really was a Garden.

When Moses wrote the first 5 books of the Bible, around 1500 bc. written languages and laws had been around for at least 500 years. So a lot of things we find in our Bible, we can find earler records for them on clay tablets.

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By this same logic, Geography and Meteorology have proven The Wizard of Oz to be true.

In this historical document, Dorothy gets swept away from Kansas to Oz by a tornado. Geography tells us that Kansas is an actual place, and meteorology has proven that they do get quite a number of strong tornadoes there. Apparantly that's enough to show that the whole thing is true.

Congrats, Johnny. Perhaps you can provide evidence for Peter Pan next. If we can prove that London is a real place, then surely Neverland must exist as well?

"In this historical document, Dorothy gets swept away from Kansas to Oz by a tornado. Geography tells us that Kansas is an actual place, and meteorology has proven that they do get quite a number of strong tornadoes there. Apparantly that's enough to show that the whole thing is true. "


LOL wrong-0 quite a different tale there. but I would expect nothing less in this forum.

Today at 12:37 AM Outspoken said this in Post #24

"In this historical document, Dorothy gets swept away from Kansas to Oz by a tornado. Geography tells us that Kansas is an actual place, and meteorology has proven that they do get quite a number of strong tornadoes there. Apparantly that's enough to show that the whole thing is true. "


LOL wrong-0 quite a different tale there. but I would expect nothing less in this forum.

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Glad you got a laugh, but perhaps you can tell me what makes this line of reasoning any different from John's?

Yesterday at 09:48 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #15


Nathan Poe,
If you keep on this track, you may actually surprise me yet.

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You, on the other hand, will never be surprising. Biblists are very predictable.

In your attempt to be humorous (or is it patronizing?), you never denied or disputed my position: Since God, by definition, cannot fail in anything, then The Fall was not a failure, but a total success. He planned for Adam and Eve's fall the whole time.
Being Omniscient, he knew it was coming.
Being Omnitpotent, it was well within his power to prevent without infringing on anyone's free will.
The only remaining option is that He wanted it to happen all along.
Adam and Eve didn't "fall" from Eden, they were pushed. God gave us a Paradise, and intended to yank the rug out from under us from the moment he said "Let there be light," and now expects us to beg forgivness for Adam and Eve falling into his boobytrap, and thank him for the privilige.

Worship that? You gotta be kidding me. I would choose hell over an eternity of that, and I'm not alone.

All I have been trying to do is show that the God of the Bible is NOT the God most christians think he is.

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The God of your interpretation of the Bible sounds like a thug, a con artist, and an extortionist to me. Most Christians reject that as they would reject any other abomination, and choose a God of love instead.

Yesterday at 10:10 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #16

We cannot save ourselves by any means.

Christ says that only thru Him can one come to God.
There is no other way.

Knowledge cannot save. Only salvation through the blood of Christ.

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From your quote :
There is no point in studing the bible.(aquire knowledge god wants us to have)
There is no point to follow god's word to obtain salvation(save oneself)
We can do whatever we want(kill, fornicate, curse, insult, etc..) since our only salvation is through the blood of christ, and he already gave it to all of us.
You are saying all we are expected to do, is nothing...

Yesterday at 06:14 PM Osiris said this in Post #6

I think someone searching for the truth will not try to ridicule God's word.
I believe the bible did say knowledge will lead to salvation.

I believe we must find that knowledge our selves, since one can only save oneself.
Most religious people don't try to search for the knowledge, God made humans with an intelligence, why did he give us that ability when people only repeat what they are told to repeat.

Questioning what your preacher teaches you is not wrong. Remember, he is not Jesus, but a human whose knowledge has been passed down from others, a human who hasn't put much effort in finding the knowledge God wants us to aquire. If you want to be more certain in your faith, don't believe only what you were raised believing, because your faith will be based on tradition. 


--Osiris

 

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Today at 08:10 AM Nathan Poe said this in Post #26



You, on the other hand, will never be surprising. Biblists are very predictable.

In your attempt to be humorous (or is it patronizing?), you never denied or disputed my position: Since God, by definition, cannot fail in anything, then The Fall was not a failure, but a total success. He planned for Adam and Eve's fall the whole time.
Being Omniscient, he knew it was coming.
Being Omnitpotent, it was well within his power to prevent without infringing on anyone's free will.
The only remaining option is that He wanted it to happen all along.
Adam and Eve didn't "fall" from Eden, they were pushed. God gave us a Paradise, and intended to yank the rug out from under us from the moment he said "Let there be light," and now expects us to beg forgivness for Adam and Eve falling into his boobytrap, and thank him for the privilige.

Worship that? You gotta be kidding me. I would choose hell over an eternity of that, and I'm not alone.



The God of your interpretation of the Bible sounds like a thug, a con artist, and an extortionist to me. Most Christians reject that as they would reject any other abomination, and choose a God of love instead.

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I really have a hard time with you.
You see some of the bigger picture, but not quite from the proper view.
You are on to some of it, but not quite all of it.

You see some truth, but instead of looking to why God does things in the manner He has, you get offended by it and reject it.

Most Christians that i know would reject the God of the OT if they would actually read it.
I know Christians who avoid the OT like the plague.
So then when they are confronted by it, it tears through their faith like an old wet tissue.

Yes, God knew Adam would fall.
He knew before He even laid the foundation of the earth.
He had planned for His Christ to come from that that fall.

This will, no doubt, cause turmoil in some to hear this.
But Christianity is faltering because His people do not know Him.

If you ever step back and ask yourself one question to all that you see and think you see, ''WHY'', you may very well stumble onto the truth and through the answer of that one question, I may one day call you brother.

Today at 09:47 AM Osiris said this in Post #27



From your quote :
There is no point in studing the bible.(aquire knowledge god wants us to have)
There is no point to follow god's word to obtain salvation(save oneself)
We can do whatever we want(kill, fornicate, curse, insult, etc..) since our only salvation is through the blood of christ, and he already gave it to all of us.
You are saying all we are expected to do, is nothing...

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My, we ran quite a ways with that ball, didnt we?

Knowledge is not what saves, Only the Blood of Christ can do that.
It takes no knowledge other than understanding that He is the Son of God who came to die for our sins.
All the rest is icing on the cake.

Now dont get me wrong, I believe as James says that ''faith without works is dead'', but That can simply mean being kind to someone.

Today at 01:04 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #29



My, we ran quite a ways with that ball, didnt we?

Knowledge is not what saves, Only the Blood of Christ can do that.
It takes no knowledge other than understanding that He is the Son of God who came to die for our sins.
All the rest is icing on the cake.

Now dont get me wrong, I believe as James says that ''faith without works is dead'', but That can simply mean being kind to someone.

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As before, from your quote:

The whole world knows that Jesus is the son of god and that he came to die for our sins, so there is NO POINT in studing the bible.   (Why do you even read it then? You know who Jesus is, you know why he came here. Why do you still read it?)
There is no point to follow god's word to obtain salvation(save oneself) 
Becase we can do whatever we want(kill, fornicate, curse, insult, etc..) since our only salvation is through the blood of christ. I can kill, fornicate, curse, insult, ect., but I know that Jesus is the son of God, and that he came to die for our sins, doesn't matter what I do, I am saved.
And you are still saying all we are expected to do, is nothing..., just to know that Jesus is the Son of God, and he came here to die for our sins

If you are right, the bible should just be 1 page then, containing:

Bible Chapter 1

1. Jesus is the Son of God. 2. He came here to die for our sins 3. Know this and you will be saved

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Now dont get me wrong, I believe as James says that ''faith without works is dead'', but That can simply mean being kind to someone.

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That can simply mean do what you are expected to do from God as well.

Today at 01:32 PM Osiris said this in Post #30



As before, from your quote:

The whole world knows that Jesus is the son of god and that he came to die for our sins, so there is NO POINT in studing the bible.   (Why do you even read it then? You know who Jesus is, you know why he came here. Why do you still read it?)
There is no point to follow god's word to obtain salvation(save oneself) 
Becase we can do whatever we want(kill, fornicate, curse, insult, etc..) since our only salvation is through the blood of christ. I can kill, fornicate, curse, insult, ect., but I know that Jesus is the son of God, and that he came to die for our sins, doesn't matter what I do, I am saved.
And you are still saying all we are expected to do, is nothing..., just to know that Jesus is the Son of God, and he came here to die for our sins

If you are right, the bible should just be 1 page then, containing:

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I think we're talking apples and oranges here, and if so, I apologize.

SALVATION does not depend upon, for example, reading the book of 2 Chronicles.

But if what youre saying is that fervent Bible study is absolutely necessary, Then I may have misunderstood your point earlier as I wholeheartedly agree.

Today at 01:40 PM Osiris said this in Post #31



That can simply mean do what you are expected to do from God as well.

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''My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him? But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food, and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works. ''
(James 2:14-18 LITV)


You really like to add to things

Sometimes ''works'' are merely doing what Christ would have done in a situation.


''for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them. ''
(Ephesians 2:10 LITV)

Today at 01:51 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #33



''My brothers, what is the gain if anyone says he has faith, but he does not have works? Is the faith able to save him? But if a brother or a sister is naked and may be lacking in daily food, and any one of you say to them, Go in peace, be warmed and filled, but does not give them the things the body needs, what gain is it? So also faith, if it does not have works, is dead being by itself. But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith out of my works. ''
(James 2:14-18 LITV)


You really like to add to things

Sometimes ''works'' are merely doing what Christ would have done in a situation.


''for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God before prepared that we should walk in them. ''
(Ephesians 2:10 LITV)

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Isn't that what God expects us to do?? To do what Christ would have done in that situation??

Today at 02:01 PM Osiris said this in Post #34




Isn't that what God expects us to do?? To do what Christ would have done in that situation??

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Exactly.
I have a friend who is a believer that seems to think God is calling him to shake up the world.
Now tis may very well be, but he treats his wife horribly as she seems to be content in being a good wife and mother.

He tries to make her feel as if she is not christian if she doesnt have the same desires as him.
God gives each of us our own thing to do in this life.

Years ago when i first became a chrsitain, I started going out on thursday nights door to door with the eldersof the church I was in.
I remember thinking that there were all those people in that church and only 4 of us ''doing anything''
BUT, how did I know what the other were doing?
Who am I to judge the servant of another?

I just think we each need to make ourselves available to God and He will show us what to do, and that may simply be for some, raising up thier children in the ways of the Lord.

Exactly, that's what I was trying to say before. That we can only be saved indivudally(or save oneself), because not everyone is the same, and lives the same situations.

Today at 12:59 PM Follower of Christ said this in Post #28



I really have a hard time with you.
You see some of the bigger picture, but not quite from the proper view.
You are on to some of it, but not quite all of it.

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Well then, how fortunate that I have you to give us all "the proper view."

You see some truth, but instead of looking to why God does things in the manner He has, you get offended by it and reject it.

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Probably because I've never had the opportunity. God doesn't allow questioning of His actions.

Which is a shame, because I find some of his OT actions highly questionable.

Most Christians that i know would reject the God of the OT if they would actually read it.
I know Christians who avoid the OT like the plague.
So then when they are confronted by it, it tears through their faith like an old wet tissue.

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Because most Christians don't realize that a good chunk of the OT simply does not apply to them anymore.

The OT was a book of Law, with God as the ultimate enforcer. But according to Christian doctrine. Christ came to fulfill that law. He said as much atthe sermon on the mount. He fulfilled, clarified, and in a couple of cases, tossed out the OT codes and replaced it with a law of love.

Christians, true Followers of Christ, embrace God's love. They neither fear his "judgment" nor do they wish it upon others.

Yes, God knew Adam would fall.
He knew before He even laid the foundation of the earth.
He had planned for His Christ to come from that that fall.

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So redemption is a scam. God created a perfect world, and chose to bungle it on purpose so that we would need Him to set it right.

Worship that? You got to be kidding me.

This will, no doubt, cause turmoil in some to hear this.
But Christianity is faltering because His people do not know Him.

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Christianity is faltering because His people are starting to know Him the way you portray him:as a sadistic tyrant.

Is it any wonder they run off in droves? 

If you ever step back and ask yourself one question to all that you see and think you see, ''WHY'', you may very well stumble onto the truth and through the answer of that one question, I may one day call you brother.

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The truth, so far as He/you have explained it to me, has been "Because I said so. Now shut your mouth and do as you're told." If you ever call me brother, it'll be as one slave to another.

Today at 08:26 PM Nathan Poe said this in Post #37



Well then, how fortunate that I have you to give us all "the proper view."



Probably because I've never had the opportunity. God doesn't allow questioning of His actions.

Which is a shame, because I find some of his OT actions highly questionable.



Because most Christians don't realize that a good chunk of the OT simply does not apply to them anymore.

The OT was a book of Law, with God as the ultimate enforcer. But according to Christian doctrine. Christ came to fulfill that law. He said as much atthe sermon on the mount. He fulfilled, clarified, and in a couple of cases, tossed out the OT codes and replaced it with a law of love.

Christians, true Followers of Christ, embrace God's love. They neither fear his "judgment" nor do they wish it upon others.



So redemption is a scam. God created a perfect world, and chose to bungle it on purpose so that we would need Him to set it right.

Worship that? You got to be kidding me.



Christianity is faltering because His people are starting to know Him the way you portray him:as a sadistic tyrant.

Is it any wonder they run off in droves? 



The truth, so far as He/you have explained it to me, has been "Because I said so. Now shut your mouth and do as you're told." If you ever call me brother, it'll be as one slave to another.

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Paul, and Timothy, slaves of Jesus Christ, .....
(Philippians 1:1 LITV)

Jude, a slave of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to ...:
(Jude 1:1 LITV)


Simon Peter, a slave and apostle of Jesus Christ, ...(2 Peter 1:1 LITV)

as free, and not having freedom as a cover of evil, but as slaves of God;
(1 Peter 2:16 LITV)


James, a slave of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to ...
(James 1:1 LITV)

Paul, a slave of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ accord...
(Titus 1:1 LITV)


Paul, and Timothy, slaves of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are in Philippi, with the overseers and ministers:
(Philippians 1:1 LITV)

Paul, a slave of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, separated to the gospel of God,
(Romans 1:1 LITV)







God created man with a great purpose in His heart.

He does allow us to ask Him questions.
I had asked for years about some things and when God finally answered me He used the disease I have to do it thru.

I will probably eventually die from what I have as my case in more severe than most.
But I would not now want to not have it as God used it to show me the answers to every prayer I had asked Him.

As I said, you seem to have caught onto a lot of details, If you could only slow down long enough just to try to find out WHY the things that you see are the way they are.
Its all not what you think.
God isnt sadistic or cruel, you just have to try to understand from another perspective.

I really enjoy your comments as you dont just ramble, there is much understanding in your words.

"perhaps you can tell me what makes this line of reasoning any different from John's?"

Sure. The bible proposed facts that were unknown and lead people to find out they are true. In your wrongful comparison you take something that is known already and say if a fiction proves it, then it is right. Again, something very different but if you read closely when I asked you to you would have seen that right?

Today at 12:52 AM Outspoken said this in Post #39

"perhaps you can tell me what makes this line of reasoning any different from John's?"

Sure. The bible proposed facts that were unknown and lead people to find out they are true. In your wrongful comparison you take something that is known already and say if a fiction proves it, then it is right. Again, something very different but if you read closely when I asked you to you would have seen that right?

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If the Bible proposed the facts, then they weren't unknown after all, now were they?
The point is that yes, the Bible does contain some historical facts, but that doesn't mean that the whole thing is true.
The Wizard of Oz contains some historical facts. Does that make it the inspired Word of the Wizard?
If you're going to judge the whole of a work based on the truth of a few parts, then you better be ready to apply that criteria to all works.