Would you marry a woman who was a former stripper or X-rated star if she turned into a Christian ?

Divide · Nov 24, 2023

The Liturgist said:
That’s completely false! Most people in prostitution have been coerced and are being raped by their pimps; a minority do engage in it willingly, but only a minority. You should listen to @Paidiske on this point.

Human trafficking used to be called “white slavery” but this term was replaced as it was misleading and racially insensitive, in that a great many black people are also victims of human trafficking, but with that information…you know parents used to sell their children out to panderers, and in some countries still do? And also that many children are abducted and forced to engage in various activities that children should not do? And still other youths are seduced by a pimp, who will get them addicted to a drug or otherwise gain coercive control over them?

As I said earlier in the thread, most prostitutes did not wake up one morning and say “I want to be a prostitute.”

I can see that. I've been so far removed from the sex trade left holes in my logic hey? Good catch! I stand corrected.

That would be horse of a different color. I doubt that one is able to be hypothecized but it would take a real meeting with that girl and she might be ok to marry or she might not be for any one individual man.

I can wrap my heart around being able to love someone who was a victim of something bad that was not their fault. And at that point her past has nothing to do with it, and it's only the rest of her well rounded self which says marry me or not.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Nov 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
Oh, so you're going to give that bait a little bit of a jerk to set the hook?

I've said all that is necessary, in simple and direct assertions, to display my point of view.

I think you know the flawed conclusion of what you're advocating here. Because you do not believe it with regards to all sins. Some sins, we all rightly recognize, prohibit us from certain things in the future, even if we repent of them.

Forgiveness does not undo the damage done by sin to either ourselves or others. That includes sexual sin as much as it does violence and fraud.

Divide · Nov 24, 2023

Watchman1 said:
Dealing with a repentant believer on the basis of his or her past is a violation of the Gospel - that Jesus is a complete Saviour and that His death on the Cross totally finished the work of salvation by taking the total guilt, shame, and penalty of sin from those who put their faith and trust in Christ.

Paul's answer to those who desire to further punish people on the basis of their past is: "Who shall lay any charge to God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? It is Christ who gave Himself and died." (my paraphrase). So, if God has justified a repentant believer, who is going to exact the consequences for their past sinful life? Who is going to overrule God?

Who is condemning the poor girl? She is forgiven by God and she is justified now. The potential husband just asked me what does that have to do with a man looking for a wife?

Nothing in the salvific gospel says that if you turn one girl down for marriage and say yes to a different girl that you have done the first girl wrong.

It's wonderful that she is born again and clean before God and man! Praise the Lord!
Waitaminute, she just proposed to me? Well Praise the Lord but I'm not ready for something like that yet. It really depends on the girl. I would have to meet her.

Divide · Nov 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
"If we have a prospective member who confesses to being a repentant gambler saying, 'I'm struggling with my addiction. I've slipped and I may slip again...I'll need help to get through this,' the congregation would be glad to accept him.

"Or if we have brother who confesses to be a repentant inappropriate content addict saying, 'I'm struggling with my addiction. I've slipped and I may slip again...I'll need help to get through this,' the congregation would be glad to accept him.

I think the hole in your logic is that the previous SW girl will say it's all I know so I may slip again. And the congregation would welcome her and that's fine. But getting Married is a big horse of a different color so she can't demand the same acceptance rules. What do you mean you might slip again? In our Marriage? Wow, best not get married then!

Why is this about the girl? Does the man count? Is the man allowed the freedom to marry who he will out of the desires of his heart or not? Irregardless of anything.

I could say, her past may not be the actual deciding factor. But I wasnt raised in a bubble, and there are some most wonderful character traits that come along with experience in that trade. That would be what disqualifies her. It would bubble out of her personality and be easy to see and make me want to run.. But I aint the bad guy for being picky.

Divide · Nov 24, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Forgiveness does not undo the damage done by sin to either ourselves or others. That includes sexual sin as much as it does violence and fraud.

That was so well said that it bears repeating it!

timothyu · Nov 24, 2023

It is easy to forgive a friend or even just accept them for who they are., but a mate, be they female or male, requires a totally different set of rules and requirements.

RDKirk · Nov 24, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
I think you know the flawed conclusion of what you're advocating here. Because you do not believe it with regards to all sins. Some sins, we all rightly recognize, prohibit us from certain things in the future, even if we repent of them.

Forgiveness does not undo the damage done by sin to either ourselves or others. That includes sexual sin as much as it does violence and fraud.

I do believe that of all sins. It must be true of all sins. Do you think some of the members of Paul's congregations were not murders, child molesters, and prostitutes? They were Graeco-Roman pagans, after all.

As I've said more than once, it's simple but not easy.

Terri Dactyl · Nov 24, 2023

QuestionQuest74 said:
What if she hasn’t healed mentally from her past ?

Healing may take time. The more she s with Christ, and a loving spouse, the more she will grow, with that love. Perhaps some Christian counseling. She may have had a past like that because she has felt she has no value. Remember Mary Magdalene and who she became.
God bless you.

Ignatius the Kiwi · Nov 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
I do believe that of all sins. It must be true of all sins. Do you think some of the members of Paul's congregations were not murders, child molesters, and prostitutes? They were Graeco-Roman pagans, after all.

As I've said more than once, it's simple but not easy.

Except this is in no way a good standard to have when it comes to marriage. If a woman felt uncomfortable marrying a convicted murderer, no one would say she needs to look past it and accept him as being forgiven by Christ. We would understand her hesitancy to be a result of the man's sin and that he has no entitlement to be married.

RDKirk · Nov 24, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Except this is in no way a good standard to have when it comes to marriage. If a woman felt uncomfortable marrying a convicted murderer, no one would say she needs to look past it and accept him as being forgiven by Christ. We would understand her hesitancy to be a result of the man's sin and that he has no entitlement to be married.

I wouldn't say anything any different than I did before:

Therefore, the repentant cannot be rejected for their past sin under any circumstance if they have repented. There may be other issues involved, but for Christians, rejection for the moral sin is not permitted if they have repented.

RDKirk · Nov 24, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Except this is in no way a good standard to have when it comes to marriage. If a woman felt uncomfortable marrying a convicted murderer, no one would say she needs to look past it and accept him as being forgiven by Christ. We would understand her hesitancy to be a result of the man's sin and that he has no entitlement to be married.

I wouldn't say anything any different than I did before:

Therefore, the repentant cannot be rejected for their past sin under any circumstance if they have repented. There may be other issues involved, but for Christians, rejection for the moral sin is not permitted if they have repented.

I she says, "I just can't get over his previous sin," that's not a righteous position because it's not Jesus' position; Jesus did get over his previous sin. Just like that person's murder required his own repentance and prayer, "I just can't get over his previous sin" is also going to require repentance and prayer.

It's simple, but it's not easy.

Sketcher · Nov 24, 2023

Watchman1 said:
This makes a mockery of what true conversion to Christ is all about. It is the denial of the Scripture: "If any [person] be in Christ, they are a new creature. Old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new."

To say that a person's past affects their future, after they have been converted to Christ, shows a faulty knowledge of what being born again in Christ really means. It also shows a belief that although a person is "converted" to Christ, they are not really fully converted. This is possibly because in many churches "conversion" means putting on the religious badge and joining up with the "Christian club", while the person is not really transformed at all. This is why people can be "angels" at church, and devils at home and at work. Just saying the sinners prayer at the front of the church does not convert a person to Christ. The person has to show the fruit of repentance, which means that there has to be a comprehensive, observable transformation in the person that shows that they have been truly converted to Christ. Just putting on the "christian" Sunday suit and strutting around saying, "I am a Christian now" just doesn't cut the mustard, and the person's unchanged lifestyle merely shows his hypocrisy.

Again, there is practice vs placement. Ephesians 4:1-6:20 shows that old habits aren't fully gone even after people have been truly saved. We also see this in Colossians 3:1-4:5, and 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12, and 1 Corinthians 5:1-7:40. You would either have to judge those Paul wrote to who still had these sin issues in their lives as unsaved in order for your logic to follow. But as we can see from reading elsewhere in those books, Paul was writing to people who had been saved, as he had recapped for them throughout these letters.

Furthermore, I know actual Christian married couples that have bad sexual pasts. And as these include close friends and family, I know a bit more than most people should about how their past sins presented challenges in their marriages which were totally unnecessary. If your logic were to follow we would have to judge them as unsaved too. Being as I know them, and you likely do not, and I know where they came from before they began following the Lord, that would be an ill-advised reach for you to claim that they are unsaved in order to prove your point.

QuestionQuest74 · Nov 24, 2023

Ignatius the Kiwi said:
Except this is in no way a good standard to have when it comes to marriage. If a woman felt uncomfortable marrying a convicted murderer, no one would say she needs to look past it and accept him as being forgiven by Christ. We would understand her hesitancy to be a result of the man's sin and that he has no entitlement to be married.

Thank you I knew i wasn’t the only one seeing that doctrine passed around amongst Christians too !
Women in the church are accepted for their selectiveness when picking men.

Men on the other hand as long as she is Godly we are supposed to pick them it’s supposed to be the only thing that matters for us.

timothyu · Nov 24, 2023

QuestionQuest74 said:
Men on the other hand as long as she is Godly we are supposed to pick them it’s supposed to be the only thing that matters for us.

We've never been known for our shopping abilities

Ignatius the Kiwi · Nov 24, 2023

RDKirk said:
I wouldn't say anything any different than I did before:

Therefore, the repentant cannot be rejected for their past sin under any circumstance if they have repented. There may be other issues involved, but for Christians, rejection for the moral sin is not permitted if they have repented.

I she says, "I just can't get over his previous sin," that's not a righteous position because it's not Jesus' position; Jesus did get over his previous sin. Just like that person's murder required his own repentance and prayer, "I just can't get over his previous sin" is also going to require repentance and prayer.

It's simple, but it's not easy.

Yes, sometimes people can't get over someone else's sin, let alone marry the person. It's because sin has real and tangible effects and to say there is an obligation, to ignore in all cases the result of a sin, is impractical. It simply cannot be done.

If a man discovers his fiance had slept with a hundred men, while he has slept with no one, it is going to cause a reaction in that man. Heck even if the man has only been with a few women it would cause a reaction. Namely one of disgust and deep uncomfort.

The man is not condemning her to hell but his image of her was shattered and he should not force himself to marry someone who affects him as such. Only if he wants to and is able to move beyond it. If he cannot, then he can break it off and he has done nothing wrong in doing so.

timothyu · Nov 24, 2023

People had no trouble picking Barabbas over Jesus. There are all kinds in the world and someone for everyone.

QuestionQuest74 · Nov 24, 2023

timothyu said:
We've never been known for our shopping abilities

What you mean ?

com7fy8 · Nov 24, 2023

Sketcher said:
That's flat-out not true. The past affects the present and often still is the present. That will affect a couple's ability to keep the commitments they make to each other, and their happiness in doing so.

My past can affect my future, by being an example of what is not loving; and my past wrongs can be reminders of how I need to constantly submit to God and depend on Him to do with me all He wants, so I grow in how He has me loving in sharing with Him and His people. And I can use my past things to help others also to see what is anti-love, so they too can learn from my past and see how there is hope for God to change us out of any evil.

Another item > Satan's evil spirit can try to get me to do what I used to do in Satan's kingdom. And he can bring back memories in order to fool me into supposing those things of my past are still my problem, when they are not but they are Satan's spirit attacking me.

And with God I can refuse to give in to how Satanic thinking and feelings would try to get me back into past evil behaviors. God can share His almighty immunity with me, against any and all anger, frustration, unforgiveness, cruel and dominating drives, and tempting pleasure feelings.

timothyu · Nov 24, 2023

QuestionQuest74 said:
What you mean ?

Women are usually picky shoppers and men just usually grab what they need

Presbyterian Continuist · Nov 25, 2023

Sketcher said:
Again, there is practice vs placement. Ephesians 4:1-6:20 shows that old habits aren't fully gone even after people have been truly saved. We also see this in Colossians 3:1-4:5, and 1 Thessalonians 4:1-12, and 1 Corinthians 5:1-7:40. You would either have to judge those Paul wrote to who still had these sin issues in their lives as unsaved in order for your logic to follow. But as we can see from reading elsewhere in those books, Paul was writing to people who had been saved, as he had recapped for them throughout these letters.

Furthermore, I know actual Christian married couples that have bad sexual pasts. And as these include close friends and family, I know a bit more than most people should about how their past sins presented challenges in their marriages which were totally unnecessary. If your logic were to follow we would have to judge them as unsaved too. Being as I know them, and you likely do not, and I know where they came from before they began following the Lord, that would be an ill-advised reach for you to claim that they are unsaved in order to prove your point.

1. If old habits have not fully gone after a person has professed Christianity, it shows that they have not yet been fully converted to Christ. Conversion to Christ does not come automatically. One has to earnestly seek God until the transformation is complete. Although it will not be fully complete in our lifetime, it doesn't mean that we rest on our laurels and think that we have arrived. Seeking God to develop our sanctification is a lifetime quest. Paul says that it is like a race in which we ran as hard and fast as we can to reach the final finish line.

2. We give every professing Christian the benefit of the doubt, and leave the judgment to Go whether they are sincere or hypocritical. We can see only on the outward appearance, and these are deceptive. God sees the heart, and we could make the mistake of negatively judging a person whom God sees as pure in heart.

3.It is not up to us to say whether a professing Christian is saved or unsaved based on what we see on the outside. Faith in Christ trusts God's promises involving salvation. If a person says they have faith and shows it through their behaviour and conduct, then we have no basis for condemnation or bringing charges against them.

4. If a couple becomes friends and bonds together to the point where they decide that they want to be together for life, and they believe that God is blessing their union, then who are we to judge otherwise?

Would you marry a woman who was a former stripper or X-rated star if she turned into a Christian ?

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