Let's get specific on works, concerning salvation

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eldermike

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If you believe works are required for salvation it would seem important that one knows what specific works you should be doing. Can we list them on this thread and link them to salvation?

Rules: The link must be solid, no fuzzy stuff. Something like John 3:16. It must be from the Bible. Not-sinning is not a "work" in this question. Baptism has been talked to the paralysis of analysis so lets throw that out as a "work" for the purpose of this question. Let's find the works that we all keep calling "works", what are they exactly?

Let's say that you desire to post that Jesus said" If you love me you will keep my commands". OK, what are they?
Note: If you didn't give all your money and property to the poor you missed one, did you not? So; if you want to use this route to explain your position you are allowed, as long as you followed it yourself. (My hat if off to you). But if you desire to use this route but pick-and-choose from His commands, please don't post. In-other-words; if you are doing it, post it, and, support it biblically as a requirement for salvation. But be prepared to defend against the ones you choose to ignore. (as long as it's done in Christian love)

Now, everyone here knows where I stand on this, but let me state clearly that I am not, in any way, attacking, flaming or belittling anyone's views concerning salvation. I respect your view and will be the first to defend any attacks, remarks or suggestions that any of us are right or wrong here and by that rightness or wrongness one is either saved or lost. This is a discussion forum and I respect your right to be here and believe as you choose, and request you to do the same.


OK, Let's list them:

1 -

(I don't have any)

Blessings
 

Ezra

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Then said they unto Him, What shall WE DO, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that YE BELIEVE on Him whom He hath sent. -- John 6:28-29.

Christ excluded all human effort and pointed out that FAITH in Him alone is all that is expected. Why? Because "For what saith the Scripture? Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it was counted [imputed or reckoned] to him for righteousnes" (Romans 4:3).

Whose righteousness is it that is IMPUTED to the believer? God's righteousness. Christ's righteousness, since He too is God: "For if by one man's [Adam's] offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive ABUNDANCE OF GRACE and of the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ." (Romans 5:17).

If these Scriptures do not settle the question, nothing will.
 
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Yekcidmij

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"eldermike

I know this is a riddle (parable of eldermike) and I think I have the answer........

1) believed (past tense)

2) believe (present tense)

3) believing (future tense)

Now I BELIEVE we have 3"



What does all of this mean? It confused me more than anything else.

Ive always believed that there is nothing we can do but accept God's grace. There is a list of things you can do though. It is the 10 commandments. Though list to live up to, I know Ive broken most of them at some time or another. Remember if you mess up on one, then you cannot enter the presence of God. That is why grace is so important......I want to type more but i have to get up early....ill come back tomorrow.
 
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Good thread eldermike.  I agree with most of what has been said.  We cannot be saved by works in any way at all!  Salvation is solely by grace through faith; it can never be earned.  But we must also remember that faith without works is dead (James 2:17).  In other words, the works do not save us, the faith does.  But the works are a natural result of faith.  We cannot claim to have faith completely void of works.  The works spoken of here are simply a loving obedience to Christ's commands (those spoken through Him directly and also through His appointed apostles).  This is a progressive process.  Peter tells us to grow in the grace and knowledge or our Lord (2 Peter 3:18).  Our continued effort to grow in grace; to grow in our obedience; to become holy as He is holy is all part of the process called sanctification.  It is something that will continue for the rest of our lives here as long as we remain in Christ.  It is something that we can do by the power of the Holy Spirit.  But to not be growing in these things and claim you have faith would be questionable. God bless!

 
 
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"For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."
(Ephesians 2:8-10 MKJV)

FOC:

People have charged me with Ephesians 2: 8-9 time and again saying that works are unimportant.
And I always present the very next verse (SEE ABOVE).

We are the elect as God has elected us before the foundations of the world, and He also ordained our works as well.
Anyone NOT believing that works are important, I would ask that you open your Bibles to the book of James.
One thing that needs to be understood though, is the definition of "works".

"Works" may simply be giving a man food to fill his stomach, or helping someone with an overdue electric bill.

"But will you know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Do you see how faith worked with his works, and from the works faith was made complete? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness, and he was called the friend of God." You see then how a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. "
(James 2:20-26 MKJV)
 
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dadof10

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Mike,

Good topic. I don't believe we are saved by any "works", but we are, as&nbsp;James says, justified by our deeds. By works, Paul is writing about something specific, works of the Jewish law. If he meant all deeds, he would be contradicting James.

Here are some examples of deeds that are necessary for salvation.

"And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. But women<SUP> </SUP>will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." (1Tim 2:15)

So we have childbearing (sacrafice), faith, love and holiness necessary for salvation.

"A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone. You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother." (Lk 18:18-19)

You asked for some examples of keeping Jesus' commands. Here are five, but I'm sure the list is not exhaustive.

"For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death." (2Cor 7:9-10)

&nbsp;"Sorrow [that] brings repentance" is another....And, of course...

"In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand--with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him." (1PT 3:20-22)

I don't know why you didn't want to discuss baptism.&nbsp;Do you consider it necessary, yet not a "work"?

God Bless,

Mark

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of our Lord and still a virgin.
-- Martin Luther, Martin Luther's Works, vol 11&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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InspectorVol

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Here are some examples of works and what the Lord thinks of those who do them and those who don't. Is this the type of stuff you were asking for?

Matt. 25:

[<B>33</B>] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[<B>34</B>] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[<B>35</B>] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[<B>36</B>] Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[<B>37</B>] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[<B>38</B>] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[<B>39</B>] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[<B>40</B>] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[<B>41</B>] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[<B>42</B>] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[<B>43</B>] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[<B>44</B>] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[<B>45</B>] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[<B>46</B>] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
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There is no power in the law to save a single transgressor of that law. The law convicts and condemns the sinner, but it is not in its province to pardon the least or greatest sin. If we sin we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. The sinner gets into trouble with the Father through transgression of his law. Christ, the sinner's Advocate, pleads in his behalf. The law cannot release the sinner from the consequence of his transgression, but Christ himself pays the penalty the sinner has incurred by his disobedience.

The apostle Paul inquires, 'Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid.' Shall we presume upon the mercy of Christ by living in transgression of the law of God? Paul declares to the elders of the church, 'I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have taught you publicly, and from house to house, testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks, repentance towards God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.' Repentance toward God because of his law transgressed, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, as the sinner's Advocate. Said Paul, 'What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin but by the law, for I had not known lust except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.' Again Paul sums up the matter: 'Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.'

Christ did not come to excuse sin, nor to justify a sinner while he continued to transgress that law for which the Son of God was to give his life to vindicate and exalt. Had it been possible for the law to be repealed, Christ would have had no need to come to our earth, and to die, the just for the unjust. God could have taken the sinner back into favor by annulling the law. But this could not be. The law holds the transgressor in bondage, but the obedient are free. The law cannot cleanse from sin, it condemns the sinner. The sinner may stand justified before God only through repentance toward him, and faith in the merits of Jesus Christ. The law is a great mirror by means of which the sinner may discern the defects in his moral character. But the mirror cannot remove those defects. The gospel points to Christ as the only one able to remove the stains of sin by his blood. Though the law has no pardoning power, it is the only means by which to explain to the sinner what sin really is. By the law is the knowledge of sin. Without the law, Paul tells us sin is dead.

It is folly to bid the sinner come to Christ before being convicted of his sin by being brought before the mirror of the law of God. What is the sinner to be converted from? The transgression of God's law to obedience of it. But if he is told that he cannot keep the law of God, and that if he should attempt it he would be brought into bondage, to what is he then converted,--transgression of the law to a continuance in that transgression? This is absurd. Yet professed ministers of Christ tell the sinner that he is guiltless while disloyal to the law of God. Such conversions are not ratified in heaven.

Our Christ was the Saviour of the ancient worthies as much as he is our Saviour. They looked forward by faith, to a Saviour to come. Adam was saved by the gospel as virtually as we are saved to-day. Abraham was saved by faith in Christ as the Lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world. Moses was saved by the merits of Christ, who was the angel that led the armies of Israel in all their travels through the wilderness. God commanded, 'Provoke him not, for he will not pardon your transgressions, for my name is in him,' All who have died in faith, from righteous Abel unto our day are saved by the merits of Jesus Christ.

Jesus said: 'Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you; depart from me ye that work iniquity.' How many there are who cry Christ, Christ, only believe on Christ, when they do not the works of Christ. Such are represented by the class mentioned by our Saviour as workers of iniquity. They transgress the law of God, and by precept and example teach others to do likewise. Nominal profession of faith in Christ will not save a soul; neither will nominal observance of the law. The law of God must be obeyed from the heart; its principles must be carried out in the life; and faith in Jesus Christ as the world's Redeemer must be manifested in the life and character, or there is no true conversion.

The law of God is changeless in its character as the eternal throne. The types and shadows reached to the antitype and substance, Jesus Christ. At his death they ceased to have any force or significance. But the law of the ten commandments, instituted in Eden, when the foundation of the world was laid, when the morning stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy, was to be as enduring as the heavens and the earth. Christ pronounced his benediction upon all who keep sacred the law of God: 'Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.'
 
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