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Where the spiritual catastrophe began. GoGo Masses of the 60s and 70s.

JimR-OCDS

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Yes it’s all the converts fault Jim. Give me a break. :rolleyes: Talk about painting with a broad brush. It would be like me calling all cradle Catholics jerks. And there are a lot of those too. There has always been division. Just stay off the welcoming committee. The Church has itself to thank for its problems.
I never said that, so stop accusing me of something I never said.

FYI, there's a difference between a convert and a fundamentalist. Not all converts were or are fundamentalist, nor
do all bring their fundamentalist ways with them when they convert. Some do however and it's causing the divisions
we see today in the Catholic Church. They typically show a dislike for Pope Francis as some do in this very forum.
 
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mourningdove~

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(Working out in the yard always clears out my head abit! :) )

So I was thinking out there ...

If some life-long Cradle Catholics (ones that never left the Church ) call Fundamentalist Protestant converts "Fundamentalist Catholics" ...
even after being accepted and united to the Catholic Church, then ...

What do the life-long Cradle Catholics call persons like me? A cradle Catholic that left and reverted back?

Are persons like me forever known as "Excommunicated Catholics"? "Apostate Catholics"? "Censured Catholics"? "Reverted Catholics"? ...
even though we have been forgiven by God, accepted and are back in full communion with the Catholic Church?

I am not being snarky. Honest!
I am just wondering what life-long Cradle Catholics really think about those of us who have left and come back?
I am guessing they do have a name for us, though no one has ever told me what it is.

I would really like to know, and will not take offense at whatever is shared ... I will not take it 'personally'.
It would just be helpful for me to know.
 
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Michie

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(Working out in the yard always clears out my head abit! :) )

So I was thinking out there ...

If some life-long Cradle Catholics (ones that never left the Church ) call Fundamentalist Protestant converts "Fundamentalist Catholics" ...
even after being accepted and united to the Catholic Church, then ...

What do the life-long Cradle Catholics call persons like me? A cradle Catholic that left and reverted back?

Are persons like me forever known as "Excommunicated Catholics"? "Apostate Catholics"? "Censured Catholics"? "Reverted Catholics"? ...
even though we have been forgiven by God, accepted and are back in full communion with the Catholic Church?

I am not being snarky. Honest!
I am just wondering what life-long Cradle Catholics really think about those of us who have left and come back?
I am guessing they do have a name for us, though no one has never told me what it is.

I would really like to know, and will not take offense at whatever is shared ... I will not take it 'personally'.
It would just be helpful for me to know.
I don’t know but there is an undercurrent of tribalism/snobbery amongst certain types. You’ll know it when you see it. I have heard complaints concerning Christmas and Easter Catholics….
 
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mourningdove~

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I don’t know but there is an undercurrent of tribalism/snobbery amongst certain types. You’ll know it when you see it.

When I reverted the first time ... for that short time ... the women I came in contact with were all very kind, loving, welcoming.
I never felt any "stigma" when around them. But I only knew that small group, before leaving ...

I 'spose now that I'm back as a "permanent fixture", I may encounter new things.

I lived in a "transient" kind of city before ... lots of people moved in and out with their jobs.
There was a blend of persons there, all kinds of folks. I liked that kind of environment; 'fit in' well.

Where I am now, there are lots of "homesteaders". Persons who never left the area. Probably many that never left the Church, even though their churches are small and struggling.

I hope to soon make a decision on one of these churches, as to which will become my "church home".
Oddly, in a good way, this conversation has been helpful to me.
Maybe I need to give more consideration to the churches where "all types" are considered equal ...
where I will not encounter much tribalism or snobbery?

Life is short. Time is short. I personally do believe the Lord is returning soon.
And so, I do not have time to deal with pettiness in the Church. Nor do I want to.

It has been a long journey back to the Church ... since those "Go-Go" days (lol!) ... I want to appreciate and enjoy it now! :oldthumbsup:
 
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Michie

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When I reverted the first time ... for that short time ... the women I came in contact with were all very kind, loving, welcoming.
I never felt any "stigma" when around them. But I only knew that small group, before leaving ...

I 'spose now that I'm back as a "permanent fixture", I may encounter new things.

I lived in a "transient" kind of city before ... lots of people moved in and out with their jobs.
There was a blend of persons there, all kinds of folks. I liked that kind of environment; 'fit in' well.

Where I am now, there are lots of "homesteaders". Persons who never left the area. Probably many that never left the Church, even though their churches are small and struggling.

I hope to soon make a decision on one of these churches, as to which will become my "church home".
Oddly, in a good way, this conversation has been helpful to me.
Maybe I need to give more consideration to the churches where "all types" are considered equal ...
where I will not encounter much tribalism or snobbery?

Life is short. Time is short. I personally do believe the Lord is returning soon.
And so, I do not have time to deal with pettiness in the Church. Nor do I want to.

It has been a long journey back to the Church ... since those "Go-Go" days (lol!) ... I want to appreciate and enjoy it now! :oldthumbsup:
A great attitude to have.

I don’t know what it is…it almost verges on jealousy ot feeling threatened is my impression. Some I think feel born into it. Had family there for generations, etc. and a different mindset and excitement toward the faith with converts or reverts may be rocking the boat in their view. We are supposed to ask questions and voice concerns just like anyone else. There are many that deeply believe in seniority, etc. It’s odd. I have been to many different Churches before converting but never felt this type of thing until I entered the Catholic Church. I suppose they have them in every parish. Maybe part of our job is to offset that behavior and make it more welcoming.
 
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mourningdove~

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"Go-Go" churches ... (lol!)

You know, I'm not normally attracted much to the more modern Catholic parishes.
I'm really a very old fashion, Traditional Catholic.
If there was a TLM near me, there I would be.

But the modern parish here has a 5:30pm Mass on Sundays. Some weekends, that is the Mass I can make.
(lol ... I refer to it to myself as the "last chance Mass", as it is the last Mass available in the area!)

When I was looking to come back to the Church ... go to confession ... I emailed (4) parish offices, to get details about 'how' their church 'does' confession. Of all 4, which one answered me back? The modern parish! The associate pastor wrote me, addressed my concerns personally.

I really was kind of shocked to hear from him directly! I expected to hear from a secretary.
And I was disappointed to not hear back at all from the other three ...

I realize lately that I've been too harsh in my assessment of some of these modern Catholic parishes.

Going to the modern parish now a few times, I see there are some serious Catholics in the service ... a couple women even praying rosaries during the Mass! And there are persons there singing the responses and hymns with much fervor.

... they have daily Mass and Eucharistic Adoration at this modern parish. (I think I need to check those out!)

Maybe there is a "wide variety' of Catholics to be found in this more modern Catholic parish?
I need to think about that. While I have Traditional beliefs, my life journey has not been so traditional ...

:idea:
 
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mourningdove~

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Maybe part of our job is to offset that behavior and make it more welcoming.

Maybe. Always maybe. We do not always know what the Lord may be doing thru us in these kinds of situations ...
 
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Michie

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"Go-Go" churches ... (lol!)

You know, I'm not normally attracted much to the more modern Catholic parishes.
I'm really a very old fashion, Traditional Catholic.
If there was a TLM near me, there I would be.

But the modern parish here has a 5:30pm Mass on Sundays. Some weekends, that is the Mass I can make.
(lol ... I refer to it to myself as the "last chance Mass", as it is the last Mass available in the area!)

When I was looking to come back to the Church ... go to confession ... I emailed (4) parish offices, to get details about 'how' their church 'does' confession. Of all 4, which one answered me back? The modern parish! The associate pastor wrote me, addressed my concerns personally.

I really was kind of shocked to hear from him directly! I expected to hear from a secretary.
And I was disappointed to not hear back at all from the other three ...

I realize lately that I've been too harsh in my assessment of some of these modern Catholic parishes.

Going to the modern parish now a few times, I see there are some serious Catholics in the service ... a couple women even praying rosaries during the Mass! And there are persons there singing the responses and hymns with much fervor.

... they have daily Mass and Eucharistic Adoration at this modern parish. (I think I need to check those out!)

Maybe there is a "wide variety' of Catholics to be found in this more modern Catholic parish?
I need to think about that. While I have Traditional beliefs, my life journey has not been so traditional ...

:idea:
There is only one Catholic Church in town here. Mine I think would be considered more modern. I’ve only been to a smattering of other parishes when out of town. I do not have a lot of experience with various Catholic Churches.
 
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mourningdove~

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There is only one Catholic Church in town here. Mine I think would be considered more modern. I’ve only been to a smattering of other parishes when out of town. I do not have a lot of experience with various Catholic Churches.

In the old days, you went to the parish in the neighborhood where you lived. Wasn't even a question.
And it was fine ...

But nowadays, with easy access to transportation ... families relocating, etc. ... and just the modern mindset that we need to "church shop" ...
deciding on a church home has become more complicated.

I think "church shopping" is really a very Protestant thing. I know quite a few Protestants that, years later, still can't "decide" on a church.
And we see many Protestants here on CF, that have been churchless (or "church changers") for years now ...

Good for you, for settling into the parish where you live!
God knew where you would be living, what you would need there, what your parish would need of you ...
with age, I've learned to trust much in Divine Providence!
:oldthumbsup:

I am going to research more into this 'modern looking' parish.
I've been quick to "write them off" but I haven't really taken a close look at them.
And that the associate pastor 'cared enough' to respond to my email about confession, and the others did not?
That's 'speaking' to me right now ...
 
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WarriorAngel

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When I was so very young I loved the drums and such at Easter.
[And only at Easter] but it used to get my mom so annoyed.
I was a kid. I don't remember how old. I am not sure if I was still gnawing the pew in front of me at that point. :sorry:

I don't prefer it now.

It was definitely a heart pumper.
 
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RileyG

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Wolseley

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Totally groovy, man---I mean, like wow, can you dig the colors? Copic!

groovy man.jpg


Agghh. :mad: May the good and merciful Lord preserve us from the "Spirit of Vatican II", with its guitars, drums, accordions, tin whistles, cow bells, and kazoos.
 
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Michie

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It is always a privilege to go to Mass, one for which some people in the world risk their lives. And if I weren’t such a wretched sinner, I am sure I wouldn’t notice it as much as I do, but the only thing more painful to me than a guitar-strumming “folk mass” by baby boomers with songs from the 1970s is listening to them after Mass, justifying this awful adventure in irrelevance with the comment: “We do it for the young people.”

I defy them to go through the music of young adults and find even one CD or mp3 with St. Louis Jesuit-type music. If some people in a parish favor such music, fine. But please, don’t claim it is being done for the young people. That is a falsehood and, in its way, a dangerous one.

Frankly, it hasn’t been the music “of the young” perhaps ever, but certainly not since the mid-sixties. I was in college in the early 1980s, and no one listened (without being forced) to the music of the St. Louis Jesuits and their ilk. We liked the Beatles, the Who, Bob Dylan, Dire Straits, the Cars, and a host of others. The small cultural group that liked “folk music” had passed on years before. Even Dylan moved on. Did people assume that Peter, Paul, and Mary would be popular forever?

I can remember going to my first Catholic Mass and thinking: “These Catholics have the right idea: stand up, sit down, kneel, stand up: keep the blood flowing.” The “sermon” was mercifully short. But the music! After it was over, I said to my Catholic friends: “I liked it, but two things. You need to get rid of the orange carpet, and you need a good Methodist hymnal.” I said this as someone who always hated singing those long Methodist hymns. I still do. But a test-your-patience, eight-verses long Methodist hymn was still preferable to “Gather Us In.”

Now, granted, being the sinner I was, I had always hated this sort of sappy religious music. In my teens, I rejected all Christianity because “youth ministry” taught me that “Christianity” meant guitar music and sappy slogans on posters of waterfalls or sunrises, and so I wanted nothing to do with any of it. It didn’t help that many of the guys doing “youth ministry” were using it as a way to pick up girls.

Continued below.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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The liturgical reforms of Vatican II had Protestant accommodation as a principle motive. Unfortunately it also costs us a bit of identity,
1. The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council.

What I mean is that although things such as TLM are forms that point to deeper reality, they are also all we have here on the surface of life for us to hold on to and ground ourselves in. The essence of the NO Mass is still the same as always, Christ, but our sensory experience of it changed us. it is no wonder that many find this difficult. I am please with the NO Mass but part of me still thinks the stability of Keeping TLM might be a good thing.
 
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mourningdove~

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A great attitude to have.

I don’t know what it is…it almost verges on jealousy ot feeling threatened is my impression. Some I think feel born into it. Had family there for generations, etc. and a different mindset and excitement toward the faith with converts or reverts may be rocking the boat in their view. We are supposed to ask questions and voice concerns just like anyone else. There are many that deeply believe in seniority, etc. It’s odd. I have been to many different Churches before converting but never felt this type of thing until I entered the Catholic Church. I suppose they have them in every parish. Maybe part of our job is to offset that behavior and make it more welcoming.

Don't know that it's been a great attitude, maybe more like being naive.
Naivety can be very enjoyable for a time, but eventually reality hits.

I've been very hopeful about some things, but honestly, I don't have the time, energy, or desire to engage in "seniority" games ...
games like "who is the better Catholic", "who should be the boss", etc. Persons that think that way are so 'not' where I am at.

Ministries like EWTN, Women of Grace, Science of Sainthood, etc., have been very instrumental in my journey home.
None of those have ever expressed any kind of prejudice towards reverts or converts. They have all been very welcoming.
(Zealous "Plug" for Science of Sainthood (Matthew Leonard): It's a tremendous program.)

I can understand the prejudice ... self-righteousness ... that some may feel towards reverts or converts.
But I wonder if God sees it that way, too? (I suspect not.)

Yes, many reverts have walked a more crooked Catholic path. But that does not mean they were not walking with God ...
or that the waters they travelled with Him have not been deep ...

You @Michie make this place a very welcoming one. I have always appreciated that, as I suspect do others. :hibiscus:
 
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Michie

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Don't know that it's been a great attitude, maybe more like being naive.
Naivety can be very enjoyable for a time, but eventually reality hits.

I've been very hopeful about some things, but honestly, I don't have the time, energy, or desire to engage in "seniority" games ...
games like "who is the better Catholic", "who should be the boss", etc. Persons that think that way are so 'not' where I am at.

Ministries like EWTN, Women of Grace, Science of Sainthood, etc., have been very instrumental in my journey home.
None of those have ever expressed any kind of prejudice towards reverts or converts. They have all been very welcoming.
(Zealous "Plug" for Science of Sainthood (Matthew Leonard): It's a tremendous program.)

I can understand the prejudice ... self-righteousness ... that some may feel towards reverts or converts.
But I wonder if God sees it that way, too? (I suspect not.)

Yes, many reverts have walked a more crooked Catholic path. But that does not mean they were not walking with God ...
or that the waters they travelled with Him have not been deep ...

You @Michie make this place a very welcoming one. I have always appreciated that, as I suspect do others. :hibiscus:
Thank you mourningdove. :) I dunno, people can do what they want as far as laying out the welcome mat for us. I think what gets me more than anything is blaming converts for all the problems in the Church. Talk about tunnel vision! Lol! I listen to my priest on this matter. :) Don’t let it get to you. You do you and act accordingly. ;)
 
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mourningdove~

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Wolseley

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Holy Michael and good St. Patrick. :( Talk about godawful. I couldn't listen to more than about 45 seconds of any of those.....they reminded me waaaay too much of the 1970s (shuddershuddershuddershudder).

Probably the worst was the go-go dancers in the gold lamé pants---not because of the music (I mean, yeah, it's Dion and the Belmonts with different words, sure), but because watching a bunch of young women prancing around in skin-tight pants and low-cut leotard tops shaking their grande chi-chis and money-makers does not, to say the least, inspire feelings of reverence and devotion in worshipping God.

It inspires a few other things, but purity and self-control are not among them. :( That sort of stuff needs to stay inside one of Denise Austin's all-female workout rooms.
 
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