step-by-step

Marilyn C · May 25, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Sure there is 1260 days Revelation 11:3 & 42 months Revelation 13:5

These are parallel times frames consisting of 3.5 years

1260 days, 42 months, 3.5 years, all the same

I agree except it is 3.6 years of 30 day months.

Douggg · May 25, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Sure there is 1260 days Revelation 11:3 & 42 months Revelation 13:5

These are parallel times frames consisting of 3.5 years

1260 days, 42 months, 3.5 years, all the same

If they were all the same, then why in one verse in Revelation 11:2 it says 42 months and in Revelation 11:3 the very next verse is a different time expression of 1260 days ?

keras · May 25, 2023

Douggg said:
If they were all the same, then why in one verse in Revelation 11:2 it says 42 months and in Revelation 11:3 the very next verse is a different time expression of 1260 days ?

It is shown to us, in that way; in order for us to know that those 3 time periods will be exactly the same after the Sixth Seal earth moving event. Isaiah 13:13
Our orbit will be speeded up to a 360 day year, 12 30 day months.

Douggg · May 25, 2023

keras said:
It is shown to us, in that way; in order for us to know that those 3 time periods will be exactly the same after the Sixth Seal earth moving event. Isaiah 13:13
Our orbit will be speeded up to a 360 day year, 12 30 day months.

If they were meant to be the same time period, then both verses in Revelation 11 would have reflected that. Such as, verse 3 would have said something like - "And my two witnesses dressed in sack cloth shall prophesy at that same time."

There are three different time expressions to take place in the 7 years. They fall either within the first half or second half.

Combined with the evolving stages of the little horn person> then as the prince who shall come>then as the the Antichrist> then as the revealed man of sin/ then as the beast - - a person can get a proper perspective of how events will unfold. For after
all, aren't events really what we are all talking about?

keras, that is basically the secret eschatological formula - i.e. time expressions + evolving changes of the little horn person - that most people don't seem to latch onto. I am not being critical or judgmental, just hoping to open some eyes.

first half
1260 days, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

second half
42 months, Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
3 1/2 days, Revelation 11:9
time, times, half time, Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7

Spiritual Jew · May 25, 2023

Douggg said:
unto messiah - for example - in your above post, you did not say what "when He was first revealed to be the Messiah" was - according to what event ? What event - Spiritual Jew? You don't communicate as well as you think.

Is it my fault that you have a bad memory? No, it is not. I have already shown you this SEVERAL times before, so why should I have thought I needed to spell it out to you AGAIN? I should have known that you don't remember anything? Once again, I believe it is referring to this:

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

Spiritual Jew · May 25, 2023

Douggg said:
I did not say cutoff at the end of "69 weeks", in my post #53. You are misstating what I wrote, repackaging it. I wrote "places it" (using your words) at the end of 483 years.

Does the end of the 483 years not mark the end of the first 69 weeks in your view? I would think that it does. So, it does not say He will be cut off at the end of 483 years, which is the same as saying the end of the first 69 weeks. It says He will be cut off AFTER that. I have to wonder if you know exactly what I'm saying and are just pretending to not understand or what.

Douggg said:
In my post #53, I was replying to a post you made - post 51. Which in that post of yours, you also included copying and pasting verse 25 - which you now say you never referred to. Yet, you included it in your post. Go look at that post for yourself.

In my post #53, I wrote "places it" (using your words) at the end of 483 years (I did not write as the end of 69 weeks) - because I was pointing out the scale of the 4 days is a very very small fraction of 483 years. 483 years x 360 days/year = 173,880 days.

See, now you are proving exactly what I said. Why do you deny it? You say that He is cut off at the end of the 69 weeks rather than after it and your lame explanation for that is that an event occurring 4 days after another event is the same thing as that event occuring at the end of the other event. But, that is not true. An event occurring 4 days AFTER another event does not occur at the end of the first event. But, that is what you are trying to say and that is what I'm refuting. I think you are just pretending to not know what I'm talking about. I'll just assume that because the alternative would mean something that I won't say here.

Douggg said:
In my post #53, I also included my chart, for clarity. Which you say you don't look at my charts. In other words, you don't look at what I post....and choose to make false accusations over and over. My chart shows the messiah cutoff, V26, 4 days "after" the 62 weeks.

==================================================

In my post #56, I responded to your false accusation of a dishonest tactic.

In my post #56, I again reiterated that the 4 days are 4 days into the undefined gap between the 62 weeks (69 weeks total) and the 7 year 70th week. The 70th week has not begun yet.

"62 weeks unto messiah, Jesus rode into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. That's what I show on my chart.

After 62 weeks, 4 days after, the messiah is cutoff. That is what I show on my chart."

If you choose not to look at my charts - then complain - about my view, which is on my charts - then that's on you, Spiritual Jew.

So stop with all the twisting and false accusations - and post what your view is regarding Daniel 9, the 70 weeks - that is concise and understandable - if you can.

I'm not twisting anything or making any false accusations. You are proving in this post that my accusations were 100% accurate. You just aren't honest enough to admit that.

I have already given my view of Daniel 9:24-27 and the 70 weeks MANY times. I even created a thread once giving my understanding of the fulfillment of each of the things listed in Daniel 9:24. It is not my fault that you don't remember anything that anyone says about what they believe. I am not going to repeat that to you every time you forget.

Truth7t7 · May 25, 2023

Douggg said:
first half
1260 days, Revelation 11:3, Revelation 12:6

second half
42 months, Revelation 11:2, Revelation 13:5
3 1/2 days, Revelation 11:9
time, times, half time, Revelation 12:14, Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7

I Disagree, the time frames you mention above are "Parallel" totaling 3.5 years, not 7 years "Chronological" as claimed

Douggg · May 25, 2023

Spiritual Jew said:
You say that He is cut off at the end of the 69 weeks rather than after it

No, that is not what I wrote. At the end of 483 years, not the end of 69 weeks. The reason you are intentionally falsely stating what I wrote is because your view can only be approached in weeks, not years, to make it seem more pausible, because you want to say the messiah is cutoff in the middle of the 70th week.

A week sounds like a brief amount of time, but 7 years does not, and is the reality of the matter.

And your view does not acknowledge that unto messiah was when Jesus rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey.

==========================================

Can you express your view in terms of years ?

Douggg · May 25, 2023

Spiritual Jew said:
John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him. 33 And I myself did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is the one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 I have seen and I testify that this is God’s Chosen One.”

John was in the wilderness, the Jordan river, not Jerusalem. The prophecy in Daniel 9:25 is to take place in Jerusalem, as that is what the 70 weeks are appointed to in Daniel 9:24 in the text. The center of activity for the prophecies in Daniel 9:24 is Jerusalem.

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Marilyn C · May 26, 2023

keras said:
It is shown to us, in that way; in order for us to know that those 3 time periods will be exactly the same after the Sixth Seal earth moving event. Isaiah 13:13
Our orbit will be speeded up to a 360 day year, 12 30 day months.

The 30 days is God`s consistent measurement, whereas the Lunar and the Solar are of different days in the month. Thus we can put God`s measurement on any calendar and get the right time.

Marilyn C · May 26, 2023

Douggg said:
If they were all the same, then why in one verse in Revelation 11:2 it says 42 months and in Revelation 11:3 the very next verse is a different time expression of 1260 days ?

God is revealing to us the whole time and then the individual parts which are of 30 day months. The Lunar and Dolar calendars have varying days but we can put God`s time on any and get the right time.

Douggg · May 26, 2023

Marilyn C said:
God is revealing to us the whole time and then the individual parts which are of 30 day months. The Lunar and Dolar calendars have varying days but we can put God`s time on any and get the right time.

Hi Marilyn,

This is why (the 1260 days) and (the 42 months) and (the time/times/half time) are not exact equivalents of each other...

Because of the 3 1/2 days that the two witnesses lay dead in the streets. And the war in the 2nd heaven time.

compoinets of the seven years in Revelaiton3 .jpg

Marilyn C · May 26, 2023

Douggg said:
Hi Marilyn,

This is why (the 1260 days) and (the 42 months) and (the time/times/half time) are not exact equivalents of each other...

Because of the 3 1/2 days that the two witnesses lay dead in the streets. And the war in the 2nd heaven time.

View attachment 331524

I believe they are equivalent - 1,260 days of 30 day months equals 42 months and 3 years and a half. God is revealing His measurement - 30 days.

The 2 witnesses are in the great trib, for that is when the A/C has the power to kill them eventually. The A/C is not a world leader in the first part of the trib. He only rule for 42 months, 1,260 days, 3 1/2 years, (which I see in your diagram.)

Douggg · May 26, 2023

Marilyn C said:
I believe they are equivalent - 1,260 days of 30 day months equals 42 months and 3 years and a half. God is revealing His measurement - 30 days.

Hi Marilyn,

What God is revealing is the timeline of events for the 7 year 70th week. The timeline of events for the 7 year 70th week is derived from...

the time expressions + the evolving changes of the little horn person. <<<< I am repeating because it is really key.

Marilyn C said:
The 2 witnesses are in the great trib, for that is when the A/C has the power to kill them eventually. The A/C is not a world leader in the first part of the trib. He only rule for 42 months, 1,260 days, 3 1/2 years, (which I see in your diagram.)

The 2 witnesses toward the end part (last 75 days) of their 1260 days time are in the great tribulation.... because the little horn person will have evolved into the beast, and the great tribulation begins when a statue image of the beast is placed on the temple mount.

Marilyn, Revelation 11 does not use the term the Antichrist, but instead "the beast", the final evolved stage of the little horn person.

After the two witnesses are brought back to life and ascend to heaven - on day 1263.5, the beast will have 42 months (a nominal expression) to reign without the two witnesses around to impede him.

============================================

the evolving changes of the little horn person is.... (this is really critical to realize)

the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

As the beast, he is no longer the Antichrist, the invalid King of Israel coming in his own name. Please look at the evolving changes line above.

He will become the Antichrist, invalid King of Israel, as the 7 years begin. Then in the middle part, around 3 years into it, he goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God - revealing himself as the man of sin.

The Jews at that point will be mortified and will reject him as continuing as their King of Israel - which ends his time as being the Antichrist.

God has him killed for his audacious act, but brings him back to life in disdain for him, and as part of God's plan to deal with Satan, who is the one who will convince the person that he can achieve God-hood.

Brought back to life, he becomes the beast. As the beast, he becomes ruthless, cunning, and totally evil, a tool of Satan - who following the exit of the two witnesses, and the 7th trumpet sounding, will be cast down to earth.

Truth7t7 · May 26, 2023

Douggg said:
After the two witnesses are brought back to life and ascend to heaven - on day 1263.5, the beast will have 42 months (a nominal expression) to reign without the two witnesses around to impede him.

Your claims are "False"

From the time the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven, it's "Minutes" until the 7th Trump blows in (The End) as the Lord reigns forever!

Revelation 11:11-15KJV
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Douggg · May 26, 2023

@ Marilyn C

the little horn > becomes the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist > becomes the revealed man of sin > becomes the beast

Marilyn, I want to comment on those two evolving stages of the little horn person - as the prince who shall come > becomes the Antichrist

Those two stages are actually the rider the on white horse in Revelation 6:2.

2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

In that verse, he is rider - a rider who comes. He has a bow. The Jews are expecting the messiah to fight the battles of God in defending Israel. He is also riding a white horse - implying that he is a messiah figure.

The crown given to him is that he will be anointed the King of Israel. Thus, becoming the Antichrist. He will bring his EU army into the middle east, following Gog/Magog, on the premise of keeping peace in the region. The world will be saying peace and safety, as it will think the messianic age has begun.

Douggg · May 26, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claims are "False"

From the time the (Two Witnesses) are raised to heaven, it's "Minutes" until the 7th Trump blows in (The End) as the Lord reigns forever!

Revelation 11:11-15KJV
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Verse 14 indicates that the third woe comes quickly. There is no third woe between the lines of verses 14-15.

The third woe - and only remaining woe in the text of Revelation - is in Revelation 12:12, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, knowing that his time is short. The time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14.

From that, the understanding of verse 15 can made. When the seventh angel sounds, it begins the process which God takes the kingdoms of this world out from under Satan's grip over the nations. And at the pinnacle to end Satan's grip on the nations, Jesus returns to have Satan cast into the bottomless pit. And the Kingdom of God and of His Christ becomes the reigning kingdom over the nations.

That process begins with Satan and his angels being cast down to earth in Revelation 12, as God starts dismantling Satan's mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great - Babylon is fallen, is fallen, is talking about the collapsing of Satan and his angels' kingdom - responsible for all who have been slain upon the earth (Revelation 18:24).

Once Satan is cast down to earth, at the end of his remaining time/times/half time, he will be visibly exposed and will be made a terror no more. Ezekiel 28:19

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Truth7t7 · May 26, 2023

Douggg said:
When the seventh angel sounds, it begins the process which God takes the kingdoms of this world out from under Satan's grip over the nations.

Your claim is "False"

When the 7th Trump/Angel sounds its (The End) time no longer, the mystery of God is finished

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Douggg · May 26, 2023

Truth7t7 said:
Your claim is "False"

When the 7th Trump/Angel sounds its (The End) time no longer, the mystery of God is finished

Revelation 10:5-7KJV
5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

"time no longer" is an expression to mean, no more delay. In the "days" of the voice of the seventh angel - i.e. the time/times/half time period, the mystery of God should be finished. The mystery of God is the ending of Satan and his angels grip over the nations, the destruction of their mystical kingdom of Babylon the Great, and the bringing of the Kingdom of God and His Christ to become the ruling kingdom over the nations of the earth.

Spiritual Jew · May 26, 2023

Douggg said:
No, that is not what I wrote. At the end othf 483 years, not the end of 69 weeks.

LOL. What is the difference? Do you not believe that each week represents 7 years? That means 69 weeks represents 483 years.

Douggg said:
The reason you are intentionally falsely stating what I wrote is because your view can only be approached in weeks, not years, to make it seem more pausible, because you want to say the messiah is cutoff in the middle of the 70th week.

I'm not intentionally falsely stating anything. That is a lie. Excuse me for thinking that 69 weeks is the same as 483 years. Which is true if you understand each week to represent 7 years.

Douggg said:
A week sounds like a brief amount of time, but 7 years does not, and is the reality of the matter.

Whatever. The fact of the matter is that Jesus was cut off AFTER the first 69 weeks, comprising 483 years, ended. Are you trying to get around that?

Douggg said:
And your view does not acknowledge that unto messiah was when Jesus rode into Jerusalem riding a donkey.

That is correct. My view does not acknowledge that falsehood.

Douggg said:
Can you express your view in terms of years ?

It indicates that the Messiah, who we know is Jesus, would be cut off after the first 483 years of the 490 year prophecy ended. And the prophecy itself does not specify how long after that He would be cut off. We all determine that using other scripture.

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