step-by-step

Spiritual Jew said:

It also doesn't say after 69 weeks and 4 days. We both come to our conclusions regarding how long after the 69th week He is cut off based on our understanding of other scripture. It would be nice if you could just be honest and admit that instead of trying to deceitfully redefine the word "after" to mean "at the end of".

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The messiah's arrival in JERUSALEM at the end of 69 weeks is 4 days before he is cutoff.

What do you have happening 3 1/2 years before the messiah is cutoff in your 69 1/2 week interpretaton of the text ? I think you may say Jesus's baptism by John the Baptist in the Jordan River - which is NOT in Jerusalem.

What your interpretation lacks is that the 69 week is unto the messiah in JERUSALEM in Daniel 9:25.

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Keep in mind, I have heard scores of posters' view of Daniel 9. It is impossible to keep every one of them tucked away in one's memory.

That is one reason you need a chart of your view. That you can present your view instantaneously. It will save you a lot of frustration when discussing with others.

keras said:

It isn't dishonest to post our beliefs. You made a very inappropriate accusation, one that shows your hardened and embittered attitude toward other people here.

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Thanks, keras. When a poster disagrees with the view(s) made by another poster, just say that they are wrong, or made a mistake in their interpretation, or understanding - not that they are being dishonest - and present why, with whatever it is that you think is correct.

Spiritual Jew said:

LOL. I'm not going to create charts just to cater to the needs of one person. That would be a colossal waste of time. You have deluded yourself into thinking that anyone cares about your charts or can make any sense of them.

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Charts you make, you can repost them over and over whenever it is neccessary to make your view clear. I am sure that I am not the only person here who disagrees with you on certain topics, yes ?

Spiritual Jew said:

That is what I normaly do except in the case when blatant dishonesty is occurring. When that occurs, I am not afraid to call it out. When you try to change the definition of the word "after" to mean "at the end of", I will call out that lie every time. You continue to do that after being corrected on that long ago already, so that's how I know you are just being blatantly dishonest rather than just mistakenly defining a word incorrectly.

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There is no word "after" in verse 25 to change the definition of.

The problem is not with my saying "at the end of", but your not understanding of what "unto" messiah means in verse 25.

There is no "after" in verse 25.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Spiritual Jew said:

I can make my view clear without charts. If someone besides just you requests me to make charts then I will reconsider. Until then, I will continue to not bother making charts just for you.

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Then put your view in order of event completion format. such as....

1. Daniel received the message from Gabriel.
2. 7 weeks (49 years) later, the command went forth to rebuild Jerusalem
3. from the command, another 62 weeks (434 years) unto messiah riding a donkey into Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah. Zechariah 9:9
4. 4 days later, after the 62 weeks, the messiah was cutoff

Show everyone your version.

Spiritual Jew said:

Are you just pretending to not know what I was talking about? I was, of course, NOT talking about Daniel 9 verse 25, bur rather verse 26.

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Are you pretending to not know that I have been saying "unto" messiah is in verse 25.

Spiritual Jew said:

You have claimed several times before that the Messiah would be cut off at the end of the 69 weeks, but it says He would be cut off AFTER the 69 weeks (it says after 62 weeks, but we all know that the 62 weeks followed the first 7 weeks).

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No, I have been saying that the messiah arrives in Jerusalem at the end of 62 weeks on my charts, fulfilled in John 12:12-15.

Spiritual Jew said:

Don't try to tell me what to do, Douggg. No matter how much you want me to, I'm not going to cater my posting style just for you.


I have already explained it many times. So, everyone besides you who doesn't need a chart to understand what others believe, already knows what I believe about this. It's similar to your understanding that you listed except I believe when it says "unto Messiah" it's talking about when He was first revealed to be the Messiah rather than talking about when He would ride into Jerusalem on a donkey. So, I see Him as having been cut off about 3.5 years after the end of the 69th week rather than only 4 days as you believe.

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Your communication skills are not as great as you think they are.

unto messiah - for example - in your above post, you did not say what "when He was first revealed to be the Messiah" was - according to what event ? What event - Spiritual Jew? You don't communicate as well as you think.

According to the bible, Jesus was first revealed to be the messiah when Gabriel appeared to Mary, then Joseph, that she would give birth to the messiah. 33 years before He was cutoff.

Spiritual Jew said:

No, not at all. I have referenced your misuse of the word "after". When have I ever claimed that had anything to do with verse 25? Never. That's why I ask if you're pretending to not know what I was talking about because I have never said anything about you misusing a word in verse 25 that doesn't even exist in verse 25, but obviously is there in verse 26 instead.

You have a bad memory. You have said before that you believe that He was cut off at the end of the 69 weeks. Are you saying you don't believe that anymore? If He was cut off after the 69th week then what week does that place His death in? The 70th week. But, you don't want to acknowledge that.

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What you have done is make false accusations over and over, to what I wrote and show on my chart.

My chart that shows what I believe regarding the arrival of the messiah. I have stated over and over that "unto messiah" in verse 25 is at the end of the 62 weeks.

Look at my chart. See where it is annotated "John 12:12-15, Messiah arrives, V25"? It is at the end of the 62 weeks - not at the beginning, not in the middle, not after - the 62 weeks. Because those terms are not found in verse 25.

4 days after his arrival in Jerusalem, the messiah is cutoff. after the 69 weeks are over.

Spiritual Jew said:

You have a bad memory. You have said before that you believe that He was cut off at the end of the 69 weeks. Are you saying you don't believe that anymore? If He was cut off after the 69th week then what week does that place His death in? The 70th week. But, you don't want to acknowledge that.

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I did not say cutoff at the end of "69 weeks", in my post #53. You are misstating what I wrote, repackaging it. I wrote "places it" (using your words) at the end of 483 years.

In my post #53, I was replying to a post you made - post 51. Which in that post of yours, you also included copying and pasting verse 25 - which you now say you never referred to. Yet, you included it in your post. Go look at that post for yourself.

In my post #53, I wrote "places it" (using your words) at the end of 483 years (I did not write as the end of 69 weeks) - because I was pointing out the scale of the 4 days is a very very small fraction of 483 years. 483 years x 360 days/year = 173,880 days.

In my post #53, I also included my chart, for clarity. Which you say you don't look at my charts. In other words, you don't look at what I post....and choose to make false accusations over and over. My chart shows the messiah cutoff, V26, 4 days "after" the 62 weeks.

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In my post #56, I responded to your false accusation of a dishonest tactic.

In my post #56, I again reiterated that the 4 days are 4 days into the undefined gap between the 62 weeks (69 weeks total) and the 7 year 70th week. The 70th week has not begun yet.

"62 weeks unto messiah, Jesus rode into Jerusalem hailed as the messiah. That's what I show on my chart.

After 62 weeks, 4 days after, the messiah is cutoff. That is what I show on my chart."

If you choose not to look at my charts - then complain - about my view, which is on my charts - then that's on you, Spiritual Jew.

So stop with all the twisting and false accusations - and post what your view is regarding Daniel 9, the 70 weeks - that is concise and understandable - if you can.

Truth7t7 said:

I Disagree, the tribulation will be 3.5 years, and it will start when the future evil human man is revealed to the world

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It is not "the" tribulation - in the bible. Jesus called that time "great tribulation".

When does it start ?

Jesus said in Matthew 24:15...

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand: )

So we go to Daniel 12:11-12

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

So it is a thing "set up".

Being a thing "set up" , the abomination of desolation is not the revealing of the man of sin.

The revealing of the man of sin will actually take place a little before the abomination of desolation is setup.

The revealing of the man of sin will be when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claiming to be God, in 2Thessalonians2:4. That act will be the "transgression of desolation" found in Daniel 8:12-13.

the transgression of desolation - the act by the Antichrist, revealing him as the man of sin.
followed by....
the abomination of desolation - the statue image of the beast, placed on the temple mount.

the little horn>prince who shall come>the Antichrist>the revealed man of sin>the beast - are all the same person at different stages on his path to the lake of fire.


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There is no "3 1/2 years", stated as such in the bible.

There are three ways that people mistakenly base that term. The three ways sound rationale, but in bible prophecy, their rationale leads them amiss in their interpretations (I say that respectfully of my brothers and sisters in Christ, and not being condescending).

The three ways....

1. They think that the expression a time/times/half time is a biblical way of saying 3 1/2 years. But it is not. The time/times/half time is actually a little less or a little more than 3 1/2 years depending upon the context.

a time/times/half time is "nominally 3 1/2 years" to give us an approximation, but it is not exactly 3 1/2 years. Just like a two by four, 2x4 in lumber that you buy down at Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. is not actually 2 inches x 4 inches. It is "nominally" 2x4 - but less, if you were to actually measure it - 1 3/4 inches x 3 1/2 inches.


2. The other way is by people doing unit conversions - 1260 days to 3 1/2 years, and 42 months to 3 1/2 years. But that is a mistake to do so because the time expressions 1260 days and 42 months are there expressed differently for a reason - and are not "exact" equivalents to each other in bible prophecy. If a person were baking a cake, or solving an engineering problem - then , yes, those sorts of conversions of units would apply - but not in bible prophecy.


3. They read Daniel 9:27, which says "in the midst of the week" - and take the midst of the week as being the exact middle of the 7 years. And conclude 3 1/2 years.

When what the verse is actually meaning is in the middle part of the week. Not the exact middle day.