Australia to Ban Vaping

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

CNN 2 March 2023 (Edited -OB)

Australia to ban recreational vaping in major crackdown on e-cigarettes as teen use soars

The Australian government will ban e-cigarettes through a heavy set of controls on imports and packaging to discourage vaping, especially among teens, under its biggest smoking reforms in more than a decade.

Australian Health Minister Mark Butler on Tuesday said vaping has become a top behavioral issue in high schools and a growing problem in elementary schools but recognized the products have a therapeutic use under the right circumstances…

“Vaping was sold to governments and communities around the world as a therapeutic product to help long-term smokers quit,” Butler said.

“It was not sold as a recreational product – in particular not one for our kids. But that is what it has become – the biggest loophole in Australian history.”

Announcing the new regulations, Butler said non-prescription vapes will be banned from importation, and vape products will be required to have pharmaceutical-like packaging, aimed at being sold as products to help smokers quit only.

Brightly colored, fun-flavored packs that lured younger users will be restricted, and all single-use and disposable vapes will be banned, Butler added.

Before the changes were announced Tuesday, the only legal way to sell a nicotine vape in Australia was through a prescription provided by a doctor to a pharmacy – but the products were still widely sold across the country.

A “black market” of convenience stores and gas stations selling the nicotine vapes without any labeling or warnings to minors have thrived under a lack of regulation and action, according to Butler.

“No more bubblegum flavors. No more pink unicorns. No more vapes deliberately disguised as highlighter pens for kids to be able to hide them in their pencil cases,” the health minister added.

Butler said. Australia’s tobacco tax will also be increased by 5% per year over the next three years starting on September 1.

(Australia already has high tobacco taxes along with a ban on all tobacco advertising and retail display. All tobacco products come in plain brown packaging with graphic photos of tobacco related medical problems..- OB)

More:
Australia to ban recreational vaping in major crackdown on e-cigarette black market | CNN
Vapes to be banned for recreational use, 'pharmaceutical' packaging to be required under crackdown - ABC News

Lost4words · May 2, 2023

Good. Wish it was banned in the UK and up tobacco by at least 50%...

Bob Crowley · May 2, 2023

Cigarettes are already expensive in Australia. It costs close to $2 a cigarette if people buy then from normal retail stores.

Cost Of Cigarettes In Australia: Prices And Tax Laws | Smokefree Clinic

We’re all aware of the health-related costs of smoking, but the financial costs are often an afterthought. So, what’s the cost of cigarettes in Australia?

smokefreeclinic.com.au

How Much Do Cigarettes Cost in Australia Now?
As of 2022, a pack of cigarettes costs $40 on average. For example, a 25 pack of a leading brand is now $48.95, while a 20 pack is around $35. To put these prices into context, a pack a day smoker (20 pack) would currently spend $12,775 on cigarettes per year. So, those who kick the habit are currently saving an extra $12,775 a year. That’s a lot of cash!

We don't have $2 notes anymore (they were replaced with coins), but if you smoke 10 cigarettes, you might as well roll your own using a $20 note.

There have actually been some ram raids on tobacco stores and other places selling cigarettes.

Handmaid for Jesus · May 2, 2023

I have never been a smoker, but, I have friends and loved ones that do. One friend stopped smoking using the e-cigarette so,imho vaping does have some value.

The IbanezerScrooge · May 2, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I have never been a smoker, but, I have friends and loved ones that do. One friend stopped smoking using the e-cigarette so,imho vaping does have some value.

I tried the e-cig route to quit way back when they first came out. For me I found that replacing a bad habit with the same actions, just "healthier" did not make me want to actually quit. It was the hand to mouth thing. That's what I needed to break. For me cold turkey was really the only way. I replaced the activity with something else completely different. I had withdrawals from nicotine, but I just powered through.

I know not everyone can do that, but it's really the best advice I can give anyone trying to quit. I've had several friends who tried to switch to vaping from smoking and it either just became a bigger habit than before or they went right back to smoking. I've also had friends that started vaping who never smoked who eventually "graduated" to cigarellos and cigarettes. For them it was like a gateway habit.

Whyayeman · May 2, 2023

Not really a ban, more the imposition of strict controls over access, particularly of minors.

A similar problem has developed in the UK. Expect a ban with the coming change of government...

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Whyayeman said:
Not really a ban, more the imposition of strict controls over access, particularly of minors.

I'm not sure if you are referring to Australia or the UK in this quote.

Australia will actually ban vapes from Sept this year. They will only be legally available from chemists on a doctor's prescription as part of a program to overcome nicotine addiction which will also include nicotine gum and patches or counselling as other options.

OB

Whyayeman · May 2, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I'm not sure if you are referring to Australia or the UK in this quote.

Australia will actually ban vapes from Sept this year. They will only be legally available from chemists on a doctor's prescription as part of a program to overcome nicotine addiction which will also include nicotine gum and patches or counselling as other options.

OB

Well if they are only available on prescription that is nearly a ban but they will still be available for the purpose of weaning people off tobacco. We are not at odds.

The situation is different here. I should think the new UK government (when the terrible Tories are consigned to oblivion) will take similar measures. There is an explosion of use among under-eighteens.

grasping the after wind · May 2, 2023

I bet the black marketeers are loving this. Ever heard of prohibition or the war on drugs? Banning alcohol and marijuana among other drugs? Seems to me that the rationale is exactly the same. The government protecting their wayward subjects from their bad habits. When does the ban on candy and any other foods that government officials find bad for one's health take effect?

Brihaha · May 2, 2023

I have read these vape pens can damage lungs and throats of users by literally burning them. I don't think regulators even know the damage vape pens inflict on people yet. I really think they were legalized far too quickly in the United States too. I am a cigarette smoker who rolls my own cigarettes. I see no need to add more risk to my health by toking on a vape pen.

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

grasping the after wind said:
I bet the black marketeers are loving this. Ever heard of prohibition or the war on drugs? Banning alcohol and marijuana among other drugs? Seems to me that the rationale is exactly the same.

Because we're an island, border protection for a whole range of prohibited substances (plant, animal and drugs) is well developed but, yes, the black market will be a problem. The advantage with banning vaping is that its early days and the vaping market is still limited. Limiting supplies will limit the level of addiction and help to reduce demand. Apart from addiction the only other attraction of vaping is probably the 'cool' factor since vaping is not a social drug like alcohol. We've had a fair success so far in reducing tobacco usage by turning cigarettes into a dirty habit. There will be a campaign to do something similar to discredit vaping.

grasping the after wind said:
The government protecting their wayward subjects from their bad habits. When does the ban on candy and any other foods that government officials find bad for one's health take effect?

You'll find that Australians have a very different attitude to government interventions like this when compared to Americans. "Public good' usually rates higher than individual preference. Our limitations on guns (and knives) and our nationalised medical scheme are examples of this. It's one of the reasons our life expectancy is higher than yours.

OB

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I have never been a smoker, but, I have friends and loved ones that do. One friend stopped smoking using the e-cigarette so,imho vaping does have some value.

It's true vaping can be useful in helping people quit smoking.

It's also true that vape manufacturers (basically tobacco companies) have been loading vapes with nicotine to create an addiction which leads people back to cigarettes or results in an addiction to vaping.

OB

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Brihaha said:
I have read these vape pens can damage lungs and throats of users by literally burning them. I don't think regulators even know the damage vape pens inflict on people yet. I really think they were legalized far too quickly in the United States too. I am a cigarette smoker who rolls my own cigarettes. I see no need to add more risk to my health by toking on a vape pen.

The problem with vapes (apart from nicotine) is that there have been no definitive studies looking at the long-term effects of the, usually toxic, substances they contain.

At least with tobacco you know what the risks are.

(I smoked for 50+ years before giving up)

OB

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Whyayeman said:
Well if they are only available on prescription that is nearly a ban but they will still be available for the purpose of weaning people off tobacco. We are not at odds.

The situation is different here. I should think the new UK government (when the terrible Tories are consigned to oblivion) will take similar measures. There is an explosion of use among under-eighteens.

The UK is about to start giving free vapes to smokers:

As part of the world-first national scheme, almost 1 in 5 of all smokers in England will be provided with a vape starter kit alongside behavioural support to help them quit the habit as part of a series of new measures to help the government meet its ambition of being smokefree by 2030 - reducing smoking rates to 5% or less.

Smokers urged to swap cigarettes for vapes in world first scheme

Pregnant women will also be offered financial incentives to help them quit as part of a sweeping package of measures to cut smoking rates in England.

www.gov.uk

OB

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Lost4words said:
Good. Wish it was banned in the UK and up tobacco by at least 50%...

The UK is about to start giving vapes away:

As part of the world-first national scheme, almost 1 in 5 of all smokers in England will be provided with a vape starter kit alongside behavioural support to help them quit the habit as part of a series of new measures to help the government meet its ambition of being smokefree by 2030 - reducing smoking rates to 5% or less.

Smokers urged to swap cigarettes for vapes in world first scheme

Pregnant women will also be offered financial incentives to help them quit as part of a sweeping package of measures to cut smoking rates in England.

www.gov.uk

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

The IbanezerScrooge said:
I tried the e-cig route to quit way back when they first came out. For me I found that replacing a bad habit with the same actions, just "healthier" did not make me want to actually quit. It was the hand to mouth thing. That's what I needed to break. For me cold turkey was really the only way. I replaced the activity with something else completely different. I had withdrawals from nicotine, but I just powered through.

I know not everyone can do that, but it's really the best advice I can give anyone trying to quit. I've had several friends who tried to switch to vaping from smoking and it either just became a bigger habit than before or they went right back to smoking. I've also had friends that started vaping who never smoked who eventually "graduated" to cigarellos and cigarettes. For them it was like a gateway habit.

I smoked for 50+ years and tried to quit many times by unsuccessfully using patches or gradual weaning off.

In the end I bit the bullet and went cold turkey. It's now been over ten years without a cigarette and I still, very occasionally, get a faint echo of the urge.

I think the cost of smoking is what eventually motivated me to quit.

OB

The IbanezerScrooge · May 2, 2023

Occams Barber said:
I smoked for 50+ years and tried to quit many times by unsuccessfully using patches or gradual weaning off.

In the end I bit the bullet and went cold turkey. It's now been over ten years without a cigarette and I still, very occasionally, get a faint echo of the urge.

I think the cost of smoking is what eventually motivated me to quit.

OB

Congrats on breaking the habit!

Exact same for me. The cost and my newborn were the final straws.

Occams Barber · May 2, 2023

Bob Crowley said:
Cigarettes are already expensive in Australia. It costs close to $2 a cigarette if people buy then from normal retail stores.

Cost Of Cigarettes In Australia: Prices And Tax Laws | Smokefree Clinic

We’re all aware of the health-related costs of smoking, but the financial costs are often an afterthought. So, what’s the cost of cigarettes in Australia?

smokefreeclinic.com.au

We don't have $2 notes anymore (they were replaced with coins), but if you smoke 10 cigarettes, you might as well roll your own using a $20 note.

There have actually been some ram raids on tobacco stores and other places selling cigarettes.

It was the cost which finally convinced me to give up smoking.

OB

USincognito · May 2, 2023

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I have never been a smoker, but, I have friends and loved ones that do. One friend stopped smoking using the e-cigarette so,imho vaping does have some value.

The IbanezerScrooge said:
I tried the e-cig route to quit way back when they first came out. For me I found that replacing a bad habit with the same actions, just "healthier" did not make me want to actually quit. It was the hand to mouth thing. That's what I needed to break. For me cold turkey was really the only way. I replaced the activity with something else completely different. I had withdrawals from nicotine, but I just powered through.

I know not everyone can do that, but it's really the best advice I can give anyone trying to quit. I've had several friends who tried to switch to vaping from smoking and it either just became a bigger habit than before or they went right back to smoking. I've also had friends that started vaping who never smoked who eventually "graduated" to cigarellos and cigarettes. For them it was like a gateway habit.

Occams Barber said:
I smoked for 50+ years and tried to quit many times by unsuccessfully using patches or gradual weaning off.

In the end I bit the bullet and went cold turkey. It's now been over ten years without a cigarette and I still, very occasionally, get a faint echo of the urge.

I think the cost of smoking is what eventually motivated me to quit.

OB

I'd smoked for 30 years, heavily for much of them and I was having issues with blood pressure and heart rate. My doc wanted me to quit, and had a Chantix prescription for me, but I just couldn't do it. I finally started vaping as an alternative, but always went back to the cigs. Finally had a tachycardia incident that sent me to the ER and I made the commitment - Vaping only and I'd cut down my nicotine to zero.

That was October 2016. Started with 18mg, then 12mg, then 6mg, then 3mg then 0mg by September 2017. I still enjoyed the flavor of the vape and the muscle memory holding it to my mouth, inhaling and exhaling a nice big cloud. In December 2019 I thought, "Why are you still doing this?", and finally stopped the vaping as well.

My lungs have improved to the point that during Covid I was able to do an hour on an elliptical machine while wearing both a medical and cloth mask.

I do not favor the outlawing of flavored liquids that are used in mods and pens, though I would like to see nicotine levels limited to ~10mg. For people trying to quit, the boutique liquids and the adjustable nicotine level can be just the thing. The one use pens sold by the tobacco companies should be outlawed. They load those up with ~40mg of nicotine, or the same as an entire pack of cigarettes, to cause addiction and get people to start smoking.

Occams Barber · May 3, 2023

Sounds like you had a real struggle with kicking the habit. I really do know how it feels

USincognito said:
I do not favor the outlawing of flavored liquids that are used in mods and pens, though I would like to see nicotine levels limited to ~10mg. For people trying to quit, the boutique liquids and the adjustable nicotine level can be just the thing. The one use pens sold by the tobacco companies should be outlawed. They load those up with ~40mg of nicotine, or the same as an entire pack of cigarettes, to cause addiction and get people to start smoking.

I'm going to disagree with you about outlawing vapes. I want to see them go ... permanently.

There are a few reasons:

Firstly, we've found that we can't trust vape manufacturers. Ostensibly nicotine free vapes have been shown to contain nicotine.

Secondly, even without nicotine, the vaping process emulates smoking and is likely to, subtly, guide kids towards trying cigarettes. Some vape brands owned by tobacco companies, emulate cigarette branding to tighten the link between vapes and cigarettes.

Thirdly, nobody really knows about the long-term effects of inhaling whatever it is they put in vape liquid. Eventually we'll start to find out. If it's problematic, we're likely to have a generation disabled by whatever forms of disease vapes cause - just like we have with tobacco

Finally, vapes are an ideal medium for quietly introducing (possibly legal) mildly addictive substances. There's a chance we could simply duplicate the tobacco problem all over again.

From my point of view, it isn't worth the risk. I can see no upside to vaping.

OB

Australia to Ban Vaping

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Australia to ban recreational vaping in major crackdown on e-cigarettes as teen use soars​

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Cigarettes are already expensive in Australia. It costs close to $2 a cigarette if people buy then from normal retail stores.​

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That's grasping after the wind

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I can't believe what I'm hearing...

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Cigarettes are already expensive in Australia. It costs close to $2 a cigarette if people buy then from normal retail stores.​

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