Outrage as Florida Republicans pass ‘fascist’ bill to remove trans kids from parents’ custody

ralliann · Apr 21, 2023

Isilwen said:
The literal removal of these kids! If you want to have another doctor weigh in on it and say yay or nay, that is common sense. Removing the kids like this would be Draconian Law.

What? They want to look at the standards of the professi0onals involved, to make sure they are reasonable. You don't even know what those are? I don't think that is a reasonable response. It's tunnel vision. It needs regulations, standards. What are they and are they good enough. That is the question. If they are not, Kids are being abused.

BobRyan · Apr 21, 2023

Isilwen said:
My point is there should not be legislation that takes children away from their parents because the kid wants to be transgender.

Show me where the legislation says "Where the kid wants.." - anything. We have the link to it here on this thread.

BobRyan · Apr 21, 2023

Merrill said:
Parents did the same thing with depressed, psychotic, or mentally-challenged kids in the 30s and 40s, and elected to lobotomize those kids. Doctors were more than willing to provide those services, and were paid handsomely,

Careful - because some here are using the rule "if a doctor agrees to do it - it must be legit and ethical"

JimR-OCDS · Apr 22, 2023

Isilwen said:
The literal removal of these kids! If you want to have another doctor weigh in on it and say yay or nay, that is common sense. Removing the kids like this would be Draconian Law.

Except, Biden signed into law making it illegal for doctors to refuse transition therapies to children, who
come to them with a self-diagnosis.

JimR-OCDS · Apr 22, 2023

Isilwen said:
If a doctor signs off on it after the child has gone through therapy and other things to be absolutely sure that this is something that should happen, then it is not abuse.

If you want the law to state that two independent doctors need to sign off on it then that is fine with me as well and would be common sense.

Again, it's illegal for a doctor to refuse to provide transition drugs or surgery, when a child and parent come
to him for such. A doctor can lose his/her license to practice if they refuse.

Also, the child can be taken away from the parents if they refuse to provide transitioning for the child.

No one is complaining about this fact, which is in place today.

Maria Billingsley · Apr 22, 2023

Isilwen said:
Whether you agree with parents giving their children the go-ahead to transition or not or agree with kids transitioning or not, you have to see this as fascist and completely wrong. These children should not be removed from their parents. These kids are not being abused and a doctor has signed off on their care.

This is sickening and is in the very state where I live. I am hating this state more and more. I would have left, but I have two young children here that I will not leave behind from a previous marriage. , but I long for the days when I lived in the Mid-Atlantic where I was raised. This may actually even push me to be fully Democrat instead of in the middle as a moderate. I am seeing more and more that there seem to be not many moderate Republicans left for me to support.

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Republican lawmakers in Florida have sparked outrage after passing a bill that LGBTQ advocates say will strip trans children from their parents' custody.

SB254 — which one former lawmaker has called "fascist" legislation — would allow the state to rip children from their parents when they are "at risk" or "subjected" to gender-affirming health care. The bill is written so that even a child of Floridian parents living out of state could trigger the law.

“I can’t believe I’m writing this,” Carlos Guillermo Smith, a former House lawmaker, and the state’s first Latino LGTBQ representative, wrote on Twitter last month. “This is fascist.”

Kara Gross, the legislative director and senior policy counsel of the ACLU in Florida, called the state's assault on trans existence "shameful."

“It is shameful that our Florida Legislature continues to pass dangerous bills designed to silence, harm, and erase trans people in Florida," she said in a statement. "These bills directly threaten transgender Floridians’ fundamental human rights and safety. The Florida Legislature’s insistence on targeting trans people is bizarre, unnecessary, unconstitutional, and extremely dangerous."

Outrage as Florida Republicans pass ‘fascist’ bill to remove trans kids from parents

Honestly, I can't see how a parent could make such a rash decision for their child. I'm beginning to wonder if some parents were unhappy with their child's sex and just want to change it. Gender disappointment is an issue. What's to stop them from acting upon their selfish needs and claim gender dysphoria for their 6 year old! I imagine this would most definitely fall under abuse ! And this behavior is most likely unchecked.

Gender Disappointment Is Normal During Pregnancy—Here's How to Cope

Your heart was set on having a girl (or a boy), but genetics decided otherwise. It's perfectly normal to feel disappointed about your baby's biological sex. Here's how to work through the confusing feelings.

www.parents.com

I's2C · Apr 22, 2023

I am sorry, not sorry!!! If a so called grownup (parent) thinks it is a good idea to mutilate a child because they think he/she is in a wrong body; that parent needs their children taking away until they (the parent) seeks help. A boy 8 years old; plays with a doll 1 day and the supposedly grownup (parent) takes into a doctor, and doctor says for greed that they need to be changed from their biological sex and experimented on with experimental surgery, that is irreversible, is insane.!! I don't believe in even given children drugs of any kind. Doctors for greed are over prescribing drugs to kids when they don't need them. Case in point: a 8 year old boy is disrupting in class; pulling girls pony tails; school nurse says he needs to be on drugs to calm him down. NO he doesn't he is being a boy, I was the same way and never took a pill for it; it is called being a boy. And people wander why their are no more Alpha males? Girls cut their breast off thinking they want to be a boy one day then another day they want to be a girl again; sorry you went through an irreversible surgery and are scarred for life; so now you are so severely depressed you want to get a rifle and decide to shoot up a school full of innocent children. Suicide of young people have sky rocketed sense the trans gendering indoctrination by Gov. ed has confused these very impressionate minds into thinking they can change their sex; instead they should of been telling them to be happy with what they have. GOD gave you the body you have and HE being a GOD of effeminate power and wisdom is much better suited to do it, not man. They have confused these poor innocent children to a point of snapping and now we see almost every day the results of these suicidal people who have went through it. The insanity has to stop!!

Postvieww · Apr 22, 2023

Isilwen said:
If a doctor signs off on it after the child has gone through therapy and other things to be absolutely sure that this is something that should happen, then it is not abuse.

If you want the law to state that two independent doctors need to sign off on it then that is fine with me as well and would be common sense.

This is not a sickness, a disease or a birth defect, no child should be subjected this madness, doctors , parents or not. This is sinister at best and absolute evil at worst, any doctor that signs off on children being surgically altered, and drugged for this insanity should be barred from practicing medicine. This is absolutely child abuse.

Wings like Eagles · Apr 22, 2023

JacksBratt · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
Whether you agree with parents giving their children the go-ahead to transition or not or agree with kids transitioning or not, you have to see this as fascist and completely wrong. These children should not be removed from their parents. These kids are not being abused and a doctor has signed off on their care.

This is sickening and is in the very state where I live. I am hating this state more and more. I would have left, but I have two young children here that I will not leave behind from a previous marriage. , but I long for the days when I lived in the Mid-Atlantic where I was raised. This may actually even push me to be fully Democrat instead of in the middle as a moderate. I am seeing more and more that there seem to be not many moderate Republicans left for me to support.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Republican lawmakers in Florida have sparked outrage after passing a bill that LGBTQ advocates say will strip trans children from their parents' custody.

SB254 — which one former lawmaker has called "fascist" legislation — would allow the state to rip children from their parents when they are "at risk" or "subjected" to gender-affirming health care. The bill is written so that even a child of Floridian parents living out of state could trigger the law.

“I can’t believe I’m writing this,” Carlos Guillermo Smith, a former House lawmaker, and the state’s first Latino LGTBQ representative, wrote on Twitter last month. “This is fascist.”

Kara Gross, the legislative director and senior policy counsel of the ACLU in Florida, called the state's assault on trans existence "shameful."

“It is shameful that our Florida Legislature continues to pass dangerous bills designed to silence, harm, and erase trans people in Florida," she said in a statement. "These bills directly threaten transgender Floridians’ fundamental human rights and safety. The Florida Legislature’s insistence on targeting trans people is bizarre, unnecessary, unconstitutional, and extremely dangerous."

Outrage as Florida Republicans pass ‘fascist’ bill to remove trans kids from parents

Do you think it's right for other states to allow children, who are minors, to get irreversible changes to their bodies, without the parents consent?

Kids cannot get a tattoo, ear piercing, cigarettes, alcohol or drive a car... but they can get puberty blockers without the parents knowledge in some states...

Abuse is abuse. It's time we recognize it for what it is.

JacksBratt · Apr 23, 2023

Tropical Wilds said:
Why anybody would stay in Florida is beyond me. I used to go to Florida at least twice a year for vacation, but I haven’t been back since before the pandemic and won’t be. I just can’t support what’s going on down there with my dollars.

Well, from what I am reading, people are moving from blue states to red states in huge numbers. Not only that but people are moving from blue counties to red counties in their same state... in huge numbers....

If you are of the political mind set that opposes what Florida is doing.. they probably don't want you there anyway.

It's great that the US is still under this democratic process where Florida's elected officials can do this with the electoral power that they have.

It's also great the the US is still free enough that you don't have to live somewhere that has a government policy that you don't agree with.

JacksBratt · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
If a doctor signs off on it after the child has gone through therapy and other things to be absolutely sure that this is something that should happen, then it is not abuse.

If you want the law to state that two independent doctors need to sign off on it then that is fine with me as well and would be common sense.

Children can go through all the therapy that they want... but... until a child is mature and at an age where it can make decisions for itself... This kind of permanent bodily damage should be halted.

There are examples of people, now in their adulthood, who have had these treatments done to them at a young age, who are wishing that it was never done. and pleading for it to be stopped from being done on others.

JacksBratt · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today urged governors to oppose state legislation that would prohibit medically necessary gender transition-related care for minor patients, calling such efforts “a dangerous intrusion into the practice of medicine.” In a letter to the National Governors Association (NGA), the AMA cited evidence that trans and non-binary gender identities are normal variations of human identity and expression, and that forgoing gender-affirming care can have tragic health consequences, both mental and physical.

“Decisions about medical care belong within the sanctity of the patient-physician relationship,” the AMA wrote in its letter. “As with all medical interventions, physicians are guided by their ethical duty to act in the best interest of their patients and must tailor recommendations about specific interventions and the timing of those interventions to each patient’s unique circumstances. Such decisions must be sensitive to the child’s clinical situation, nurture the child’s short and long-term development, and balance the need to preserve the child’s opportunity to make important life choices autonomously in the future. We believe it is inappropriate and harmful for any state to legislatively dictate that certain transition-related services are never appropriate and limit the range of options physicians and families may consider when making decisions for pediatric patients.”

AMA to states: Stop interfering in health care of transgender children

There is no such thing as "medically necessary gender transition-related care" Especially for minor patients.

There is no way on earth for a minor to be able to have any sniff of an idea or concept of what is best for them as far as permanent gender alteration.

That...... is a big lie.

JacksBratt · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
Your opinion is duly noted.

My point is there should not be legislation that takes children away from their parents because the kid wants to be transgender. With attitudes like I am seeing within this thread and others that are lock-step with people like DeSantis, it makes me question if I want to be a Christian because it seems the majority of Christians care about controlling those who aren't Christians and that is not at all who I am or want to be!

You stated the reason right there....." the KID wants to be"

Some kids think that they are cats. lions, dogs, fish...

They are kids... We don't pack their bags and send them off on their own when they are six years old because they are not birds, cats, fish.. they are humans....

Humans have not been aloud to make decisions for themselves or the community until they are 18, for voting, 16 for driving a car, 21 for drinking and other age minimums for other adult decisions.

Yet people want to allow a children to have far far more life altering changes made to their tiny bodies... before they can even grasp the concept of what they are used for... or what they will be when they grow up as a profession or career..

grasping the after wind · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
I am saying that if the parents and child went through counseling, and therapy, and were working with a doctor for a year, why should we tell them no?

Just how much and of what quality therapy are we now requiring for saying yes, it is a great idea to permanently mutilate a child's body because the child believes it will gain him or her more acceptance from his or her peers.

Angeldove97 · Apr 23, 2023

JimR-OCDS said:
The actual law. It only temporarily gives the state emergency jurisdiction over the child.

Senate Bill 254 (2023) - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

In other words, a parent who is sending their child for gender transition therapy, will
have the state look at abuse of the child in this matter.

Fact is, gender transition therapy using drugs or surgery for a child under 18, is abuse, there is no two ways about it.

Taking a child from their parents for ANY IDIOTIC REASON (and yes this falls into an IDIOTIC reason) is horrible. It will cause trauma to the child and parent and no, I don't trust any state or government to "just give back" the kid. If we are going to pull the "parent knows best", then even if a situation doesn't fit your religious belief, the state has NO RIGHT to take away the child.

Angeldove97 · Apr 23, 2023

grasping the after wind said:
Just how much and of what quality therapy are we now requiring for saying yes, it is a great idea to permanently mutilate a child's body because the child believes it will gain him or her more acceptance from his or her peers.

That's between the child (the person dealing with all of this), the parent (who has known the child since their birth), and God. The state needs to stay out of it.

Angeldove97 · Apr 23, 2023

JacksBratt said:
You stated the reason right there....." the KID wants to be"

Some kids think that they are cats. lions, dogs, fish...

And educated medical professionals will work with the child and their parents to understand what the child truly means and needs to live a successful life. Are you going through this? Is a child of yours going through this? Then I wouldn't worry too much about it. Let parents parent and medical professionals do their jobs.

Angeldove97 · Apr 23, 2023

Isilwen said:
I am saying that if the parents and child went through counseling, and therapy, and were working with a doctor for a year, why should we tell them no?

Amen! It is between the child and God. Do we think that the child is so "gone" that the Holy Spirit can't help them discern the pathway they've been called to?

grasping the after wind · Apr 23, 2023

Angeldove97 said:
That's between the child (the person dealing with all of this), the parent (who has known the child since their birth), and God. The state needs to stay out of it.

The state is responsible for the physical well-being of its citizens. If parents are allowing their children to be abused by predatory medical professionals the state must step in to protect the child from such abuse.

Outrage as Florida Republicans pass ‘fascist’ bill to remove trans kids from parents’ custody

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