Who think, fundamentally, libraries are a good thing?

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
24,677
13,238
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟365,281.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
I'm truly curious.

Despite what may appear to be failings around DQSH, we COULD all see that libraries serve a (and I don't use this word lightly), VITAL role in the community, rigtht? Is it possible that this COULD BE a common ground idea?

I don't know what American local libraries do, but I can tell you that the libraries in my hometown do incredible things; bordering almost on social work.


Anyways, I guess they don't feel the same in Missouri. That or they love petty vindictiveness more.
Missouri Reps Just Voted to Completely Defund the State’s Public Libraries
 

Hazelelponi

:sighing:
Site Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,340
8,742
55
USA
✟686,677.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Libraries are essential.

However, if the left is turning those libraries into houses of trans-activism, I don't think the state should fund it - because it becomes something other than it's original purpose.

Take trans-activism out, and the state should fund libraries.

But so long as they are centers for activism instead of places for reading and learning while the state is paying for it and it becomes something the state is providing to indoctrinate the next generation. Aka : it makes the state itself a trans-activist.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: hislegacy
Upvote 0

SimplyMe

Senior Veteran
Jul 19, 2003
9,698
9,421
the Great Basin
✟329,011.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Libraries are essential.

However, if the left is turning those libraries into houses of trans-activism, I don't think the state should fund it - because it becomes something other than it's original purpose.

Take trans-activism out, and the state should fund libraries.

But so long as they are centers for activism instead of places for reading and learning while the state is paying for it and it becomes something the state is providing to indoctrinate the next generation. Aka : it makes the state itself a trans-activist.
How are Missouri libraries "centers for activism?" And that was every Missouri library?

I'm pretty sure Missouri passed a law making it a felony for librarians to do that type of thing, which is what the lobbying groups were complaining about (because it would be too easy to trump up felony charges because you were asked a question, not for activism).

And shouldn't you pass a law to try and resolve the issue, if there is one, rather than burn the whole thing down?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mark46
Upvote 0

Brihaha

Well-Known Member
May 6, 2021
2,285
2,574
Virginia
✟151,062.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Libraries are wonderful places. Along with the many resources of knowledge, libraries serve as centers of community fellowship. Sadly, political tribalism has engulfed parts of America today. It could almost be perceived that one tribe is against any education in their states.
 
Upvote 0

hislegacy

Memories pre 2021
Site Supporter
Nov 15, 2006
43,832
13,996
Broken Arrow, OK
✟698,862.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Curiosity question - show of hands - when was the last time you or your family has been in a library?

As for the OP:

Great topic - and I see it as an opportunity for citizens to make government work for them. The People of Missouri can do one of two things -

First: support the politicians who they voted into office or vote them out.

Second: If they oppose the actions, use their civic rights and responsibilities and phone them, do petitions, hold public meetings. Politicans listen to the people who vote for them. It is a powerful and more useful tool than just about anything else.

Reminds me of ROE - it passed because more people supported it, than took a stance against it and fought politically and civilly against it.

So often we speak of the 'popular' vote. Well it stands in state and local - if the majority want it defended - that is their right. If the majority do not want it defunded - that is their right.

No far Right or Left boogeymen (sorry, not trying to gender assign) - just a political position supported or not supported.
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,604
Hudson
✟283,812.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
I'm truly curious.

Despite what may appear to be failings around DQSH, we COULD all see that libraries serve a (and I don't use this word lightly), VITAL role in the community, rigtht? Is it possible that this COULD BE a common ground idea?

I don't know what American local libraries do, but I can tell you that the libraries in my hometown do incredible things; bordering almost on social work.


Anyways, I guess they don't feel the same in Missouri. That or they love petty vindictiveness more.
Missouri Reps Just Voted to Completely Defund the State’s Public Libraries
The issue of whether or not pubic libraries are fundamentally a good thing is a different issue then whether or not they should receive state funding. There are any number of fundamentally good things that don't all fit into the state budget, so there will always be fundamentally good things that are not funded by the state. The people who believe that public libraries serve a vital role in the community will support them regardless of whether their funds go directly to them or through the state first. However, the issue is whether or it is fundamentally good for public libraries to have sexually explicit books defined as “showing human masturbation, deviate sexual intercourse,” “sexual intercourse, direct physical stimulation of genitals, sadomasochistic abuse,” or showing human genitals. People should have the freedom to vote with their wallet whether or not that is fundamentally a good thing and those who think that sexually explicit books are vital for the community will personally support it. It is not was though public libraries require state funding in order to continue to exist.
 
Upvote 0

rambot

Senior Member
Apr 13, 2006
24,677
13,238
Up your nose....wid a rubbah hose.
✟365,281.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Greens
The issue of whether or not pubic libraries are fundamentally a good thing is a different issue then whether or not they should receive state funding. There are any number of fundamentally good things that don't all fit into the state budget, so there will always be fundamentally good things that are not funded by the state. The people who believe that public libraries serve a vital role in the community will support them regardless of whether their funds go directly to them or through the state first.
Here's the JOY about democracy, "fundamentally good things" COULD be supported by government budgets.
Things like food banks, libraries, health care.

These things COULD be supported by government budgets. The problem is Americans don't want good things. They ONLY want the things they want...some of which are also good. The difference there is, if folks saw the value of banding together and investing in things AS A SOCIETY AND CULTURE then society and culture would benefit. It is not JUST about what an individual wants, it's about what is good for many other people too.

However, the issue is whether or it is fundamentally good for public libraries to have sexually explicit books defined as “showing human masturbation, deviate sexual intercourse,” “sexual intercourse, direct physical stimulation of genitals, sadomasochistic abuse,” or showing human genitals.
1) I know my public library had certain books that had age restrictions for getting signed out
2) Who are YOU to dictate for me or another person whether I should have access to that material?
I would posit that you and yours should definitely avoid LOOKING at those books (personally, I would as well). But what the heck? How is America the land of freedom (and the right wing considered the party of freedom) when they want to ban books from libraries?

The right argued for more racism on twitter, or at LEAST being able to express racist ideas uninhibited.

Why advocate for racism but argue against books about consensual sexual acts?



People should have the freedom to vote with their wallet whether or not that is fundamentally a good thing and those who think that sexually explicit books are vital for the community will personally support it. It is not was though public libraries require state funding in order to continue to exist.

Seriously.... why do people worship the free market as the only way to make decisions? As if that's the ONLY WAY to dictate whether something should EVEN EXIST.
 
Upvote 0

Fantine

Dona Quixote
Site Supporter
Jun 11, 2005
37,095
13,146
✟1,086,418.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Libraries are centers of learning, providing books, periodicals, research materials and more both in their bricks and mortar facilities and online.

They have computers for those who don't have access. They have programs for every age--story hours, senior exercise classes, crafting, genealogy research, and more.

Besides the programs they host, they offer space for other groups to meet.

All of this is free for residents and reasonable to those who live out of the service area.

They are managed by professionals in library and media who have Masters degrees and the necessary expertise and professionalism to run them well.

Let's remember who in history has fought libraries. Hitler. MaoTseTung. Hmmm....
 
  • Agree
Reactions: tturt and Sif
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,604
Hudson
✟283,812.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Here's the JOY about democracy, "fundamentally good things" COULD be supported by government budgets.
Things like food banks, libraries, health care.

These things COULD be supported by government budgets. The problem is Americans don't want good things. They ONLY want the things they want...some of which are also good. The difference there is, if folks saw the value of banding together and investing in things AS A SOCIETY AND CULTURE then society and culture would benefit. It is not JUST about what an individual wants, it's about what is good for many other people too.
Things can be supported privately or through government budgets, so it does not follow that if someone doesn't think that something should be funded through the government that they therefore do not want it. If people think that things are vital as a society and culture, then they will fund them regardless of whether or not the government involved and they will have a much greater chance of making a better use of those funds without the government being involved.

1) I know my public library had certain books that had age restrictions for getting signed out
2) Who are YOU to dictate for me or another person whether I should have access to that material?
I would posit that you and yours should definitely avoid LOOKING at those books (personally, I would as well). But what the heck? How is America the land of freedom (and the right wing considered the party of freedom) when they want to ban books from libraries?

The right argued for more racism on twitter, or at LEAST being able to express racist ideas uninhibited.

Why advocate for racism but argue against books about consensual sexual acts?
The fact that I pay taxes means that I should have a say in how it is spent, especially if it is being used to support causes that I do not support. You have access to that material if you choose to fund it regardless of whether or not it is something that I support, so me not supporting it is not dictating to you whether you should have access to that material. Again, public libraries do to require state funds in order to exist.

The reason why the land of the free is not also the land where there are no laws is because we can abuse our freedoms to do things that we ought not to do, so true freedom is not the freedom to do whatever we want, but the freedom to do what we ought.

It is not uncommon for a black cop can shoot a black or white person and a white cop can shoot a white person without making any headlines, but a white cop shooting a black person often makes all sorts of headlines, with the left screaming about racism regardless of the the details of the situation and making them into a hero even if they had a criminal record a mile long. In my view, most of what I've seen labeled as being racist has nothing to do with racism, so the problem with censoring racist comments is that I have no trust whatsoever that the people doing the censoring to correctly determine what is racist and to not use it as a political weapon. People on the left have the freedom to say things that would cause an uproar if it were said by someone on the right, so there is a huge double standard. Just recently people got banned from twitter too because they quoted a verse from the Bible that spoke against taking vengeance in regard to trans people or if people raised concerns about violence being done by trans people, so there is no question it is being used as a political weapon. So whether something should be censored on twitter is different issue than whether my taxes should be used to support something that I don't support.

Seriously.... why do people worship the free market as the only way to make decisions? As if that's the ONLY WAY to dictate whether something should EVEN EXIST.
It is not not worshipping the free market to think think that people should have the freedom to vote with their wallet about what they think is vital. Furthermore, there is nothing about not wanting sexually explicit books to be purchased with state funds that dictates whether or not that they should exist or be available through other means. The government is supported by the people, so there is nothing that the government does with tax money that can't be privately supported instead. The people in government represent the will of the people, so if the people don't consider something to be vital to support without government funding, then I see no grounds for the people in government to consider it to be vital.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,604
Hudson
✟283,812.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Libraries are centers of learning, providing books, periodicals, research materials and more both in their bricks and mortar facilities and online.

They have computers for those who don't have access. They have programs for every age--story hours, senior exercise classes, crafting, genealogy research, and more.

Besides the programs they host, they offer space for other groups to meet.

All of this is free for residents and reasonable to those who live out of the service area.

They are managed by professionals in library and media who have Masters degrees and the necessary expertise and professionalism to run them well.

Let's remember who in history has fought libraries. Hitler. MaoTseTung. Hmmm....
It is natural that your post did not refer to public libraries being used to view sexually explicit books and it is absurd to compare those who are against public libraries having sexually explicit books to Hitler and MaoTseTung.
 
Upvote 0

durangodawood

Dis Member
Aug 28, 2007
23,566
15,704
Colorado
✟431,767.00
Country
United States
Faith
Seeker
Marital Status
Single
It is natural that your post did not refer to public libraries being used to view sexually explicit books and it is absurd to compare those who are against public libraries having sexually explicit books to Hitler and MaoTseTung.
What about books with explicit violence?
 
  • Optimistic
Reactions: USincognito
Upvote 0

adrianmonk

Recursive Algorithm
Jan 14, 2008
598
699
Seattle, WA
✟217,371.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
As someone who currently donates to his local library I think libraries are great for everyone. When I was unemployed just before the great recession, I was able to borrow books from my local library to enhance my skills and start a business.
 
Upvote 0

WolfGate

Senior Member
Site Supporter
Jun 14, 2004
4,168
2,090
South Carolina
✟448,246.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, they serve a vital role. A role for all of society, not just liberals or conservatives, religious or atheists, immigrant or native, English speaking or ESL, smart or not-so-smart. Just as we can let parents decide in other areas, we can let parents decide which of the books in the library their child can bring home or read.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

perplexed

Senior Member
Jun 22, 2005
2,069
467
50
✟100,304.00
Faith
Seeker
Curiosity question - show of hands - when was the last time you or your family has been in a library?

Only occasionally go to libraries but It did seem to be serving older people and on the first floor there are usually a group of mothers and young children interacting with each other and not using screens ,

I am sympathetic to arguments better of selling of the land though, Their primary function of providing knowledge is much better served by the internet
No far Right or Left boogeymen (sorry, not trying to gender assign) - just a political position supported or not supported.
Lol
 
Upvote 0

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,635
7,841
63
Martinez
✟902,616.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm truly curious.

Despite what may appear to be failings around DQSH, we COULD all see that libraries serve a (and I don't use this word lightly), VITAL role in the community, rigtht? Is it possible that this COULD BE a common ground idea?

I don't know what American local libraries do, but I can tell you that the libraries in my hometown do incredible things; bordering almost on social work.


Anyways, I guess they don't feel the same in Missouri. That or they love petty vindictiveness more.
Missouri Reps Just Voted to Completely Defund the State’s Public Libraries
Dark ages....here we come !
 
Upvote 0

jacks

Er Victus
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
3,805
3,053
Northwest US
✟672,361.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Public libraries are a good thing. Ideally they should be apolitical, serving only to provide information, not opinions. It doesn't really bother me personally, but my local library definitely has a political agenda, that I see could put some people off. This is shown by what activities they sponsor and what books and films they highlight. Libraries should be depositories of information, not vehicles of social preferences.
 
Upvote 0

Pommer

CoPacEtiC SkEpTic
Sep 13, 2008
16,484
10,363
Earth
✟141,074.00
Country
United States
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
Public libraries are a good thing. Ideally they should be apolitical, serving only to provide information, not opinions. It doesn't really bother me personally, but my local library definitely has a political agenda, that I see could put some people off. This is shown by what activities they sponsor and what books and films they highlight. Libraries should be depositories of information, not vehicles of social preferences.
One man’s “information” is another man’s “vehicle of social preferences”.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jacks

Er Victus
Site Supporter
Jun 29, 2010
3,805
3,053
Northwest US
✟672,361.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
One man’s “information” is another man’s “vehicle of social preferences”.
I see what you are saying, but giving only information on one side of an issue or only highlighting information about certain issues and not others; then "information" becomes a "vehicle of social preference". That's why I can see why some people may get upset with the library.
 
Upvote 0