At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville private Christian elementary school shooting; shooter killed by police

Desk trauma said:

There is zero chance of that happening

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Come on! Where's that American 'can do' spirit? It would be a long and difficult road, but even the longest journey begins with a single step.

It is not as if there is a majority for retaining them.

public hermit said:

You ask that as if God can't know how we are interrelated and make judgments accordingly. I'm not saying you or I pulled the trigger, Hale did. But no one functions in a vacuum wholly unrelated to the context in which they act. We are all part of that context. The Christian notion of a body functioning as one is intended to be a healthy version of a body disfunctioning as one, which is more often the reality. Humanity is a body more often than not disfunctioning as one. This is more clearly seen now than it used to be, but it has always been the case on some level.

My point is we need to rid ourselves of the tendency to view these events, or any event, in strictly individualistic terms. The fact that numerous individuals have committed horrendous acts with guns cannot be reduced to details about those individuals. And certainly, to condemn (eternally) an individual for what is surely a societal sickness is absurd.

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So murder is a societal sickness and we’re all responsible?

Whyayeman said:

Come on! Where's that American 'can do' spirit? It would be a long and difficult road, but even the longest journey begins with a single step.

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We have accepted this something that is going to happen, we need to stop pretending otherwise.

Tinker Grey said:

I've dealt with family members with mental health issues. It's a hard slog. The idea that when I am no longer capable of providing help that if my daughter should not be able to otherwise get that help and something happens that there would be those relishing her burning in Hell angers me.

Who should have the most sympathy? The families of the victims. Next? Classmates. Next? The officers that had to deal with the situation.

But, should a person suffering from mental illness get no sympathy? I say yes.

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Do we know that Hale was suffering from mental illness?

RDKirk said:

I'm going to push back on the way you said that.

God does call upon Christians to forgive others in the way God has forgiven us. It's one of Jesus' most strict commandments that He gave in the harshest terms possible.

But God does not forgive the unrepentant, nor did Jesus command us to forgive the unrepentant. And I think you use the word "sympathy" too casually. Sympathy involves feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune. I can't regard Audrey Hale with real pity and sorrow.

For the situation, the fact that sin has caused lives to be lost, yes, I have sorrow over that. But for Hale herself and whatever rationale she thought she had to commit murder...not so much.

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I can. Hale is (assuming we persist after death, which I do) created in the image of God, and one for whom Christ died out of love. The fact Hale committed this horrendous evil doesn't negate any of that, it only accentuates my sorrow for the person who commits such act. My heart also breaks for those who were slaughtered senslessly. Love, compassion, and sorrow for humans is not a zero-sum game-only reserved for those who suffer innocently, not if it is grounded and rooted in the Creator who loves all. How can we see a fellow human sink to the depths of depravity, to become inhuman, and not be heartbroken for their sake?

I think of that child who must have been, like all of us, full of wonder and joy, never imagining the horror they would bring into the world, never dreaming they would become the one to slaughter children. I don't understand it, but I definitely feel sorrow for them.

I also think about what their experience must be like in the divine presence of unmitigated love. To face what they have done, to face the brute fact of it all is not something that satisfies me or lessens my sorrow for them, but it breaks my heart even more because they must suffer. There is no doubt in my mind that this person is suffering immensely for this evil they committed. Why wouldn't I feel sorrow for them?

BPPLEE said:

Do we know that Hale was suffering from mental illness?

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I would a little further. Hale deserves some sympathy whether or not he or she was ill and that applies to all murderers. (Remember that there seven deaths, not six.)

Who doubts that some kind of turmoil was going on in Hale's mind?

public hermit said:

How can we see a fellow human sink to the depths of depravity, to become inhuman, and not be heartbroken for their sake?

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I agree; I just add that it is not limited to those with a religious standpoint.

Whyayeman said:

I would a little further. Hale deserves some sympathy whether or not he or she was ill and that applies to all murderers. (Remember that there seven deaths, not six.)

Who doubts that some kind of turmoil was going on in Hale's mind?

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Sympathy for someone who murders children? Do you feel sympathy for a police officer who kills a person of color?

BPPLEE said:

So murder is a societal sickness and we’re all responsible?

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Have you looked around? Every day people are mowing each other down. We have politicians making family Christmas photos while holding their weapons. That's insane. "Let's celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace with these murder tools." Good Lord. The same ones who are about to celebrate the one who gave his life for others will also refuse to entertain the possibility of legislating weapons that have one primary purpose: murder. Some of us are more culpable than others, for sure, but we all have a responsibility to work together to make real changes.

BPPLEE said:

So murder is a societal sickness and we’re all responsible?

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To some extent we are.

Sometimes when I see a person who was raised with abuse/neglect or terrible adult examples or having a serious mental illness or other ongoing circumstances that can warp a persons character, I wonder if I would have come out in better in the same situation. I cant say for sure sure I would. So I count myself lucky.

BPPLEE said:

Do we know that Hale was suffering from mental illness?

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It has been reported that Hale was undergoing treatment for an emotional disorder. What specific disorder that was has not been disclosed.

BPPLEE said:

$115 billion would go a long way on protecting our schools. How much money has the US given Ukraine? That’s more than Russia spends on the military per year. Russia military budget 2021 | Statista

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Given the amount of the assistance to Ukraine is "in-kind" I wonder which equipment the school defense force would find most useful. Perhaps a nice M777. Great for long range defense, especially if you know where the attacker lives and want to explode a 155-mm shell in their house before they wake up. Maybe a mobile M2A2 ODS would do the trick. Fire a few 25-mm AP rounds and that will take care of even the best armoured Honda Fit.

public hermit said:

Have you looked around? Every day people are mowing each other down. We have politicians making family Christmas photos while holding their weapons. That's insane. "Let's celebrate the birth of the Prince of Peace with these murder tools." Good Lord. The same ones who are about to celebrate the one who gave his life for others will also refuse to entertain the possibility of legislating weapons that have one primary purpose: murder. Some of us are more culpable than others, for sure, but we all have a responsibility to work together to make real changes.

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You seem to have more contempt for someone who had their picture taken while holding a gun than you do for someone who murdered 6 people, 3 of which were children

RDKirk said:

Genuine sympathy is not free. A person genuinely sympathizes at a real psychological cost to himself.

I don't think you meant to say that in the way you did, given what you'd said just above it.

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Thanks. Fixed.

BPPLEE said:

You seem to have more contempt for someone who had their picture taken while holding a gun than you do for someone who murdered 6 people, 3 of which were children

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You seem to be avoiding the point.

Hans Blaster said:

Given the amount of the assistance to Ukraine is "in-kind" I wonder which equipment the school defense force would find most useful. Perhaps a nice M777. Great for long range defense, especially if you know where the attacker lives and want to explode a 155-mm shell in their house before they wake up. Maybe a mobile M2A2 ODS would do the trick. Fire a few 25-mm AP rounds and that will take care of even the best armoured Honda Fit.

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Absurd. I’m talking about money not hardware. We’re going to have to replace what we give to Ukraine

RocksInMyHead said:

It has been reported that Hale was undergoing treatment for an emotional disorder. What specific disorder that was has not been disclosed.

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Gender dysphoria maybe?

public hermit said:

You seem to be avoiding the point.

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No I just don’t subscribe to your premise.

BPPLEE said:

Absurd. I’m talking about money not hardware. We’re going to have to replace what we give to Ukraine

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Some of it, yes, but a lot of it is just writing down unused equipment from storage.

That said. Militarization of school zones to protect against armed intruders is not really a viable option.

It would be much easier to just remove the mass shooters weapons of choice from their possession. (Plus we wouldn't also need to fortify our shopping centers, grocery stores, churches, outdoor markets, barber shops, restaurants, etc.)

BPPLEE said:

No I just don’t subscribe to your premise.

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You don't think we have a collective responsibility to try and make things better, specifically in regard to mass shootings?