Did Adam have Eternal Life Pre-Fall?
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GenemZ
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Eternal life is the Holy Spirit given to church age believers. It does not refer to our human spirit that all OT believers received when they became born again. The human spirit makes us to be spiritual - able to comprehend and to know spiritual realities. Eternal life is God sharing His life with us. That happens by means of the filing of the Holy Spirit that is given to all who believe in the church age.
Here is one passage you showed us which holds the clue to what I speak:
10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him
and he would have given you living water.”
11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water?
12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”
13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them
will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
Living water?
Jesus told us what that living water is and we are told when that would begin to happen!
On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice,
“Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink.Whoever believes in me, as Scripture
has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” By this he meant the Spirit,
whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit
had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified." John 7:27-39
The Day of Pentecost is when that began its fulfillment.
The Holy Spirit is ETERNAL God! He is Eternal life!
We have been given eternal life because Jesus is now long been glorified after He ascended back to Heaven!
OT saints were given 'everlasting life.'
We have both everlasting life and eternal life because Jesus is Glorified and seated at the right hand of the Father!
Words hold meanings.
We need to learn to become exacting with the Bible if we are ever to find ourselves thinking with Christ, not simply thinking about Christ.
When we think with Christ? We are experiencing having the mind (thinking) of Christ!
And, we have been given the mind (thinking) of Christ! (1 Cor 2:16) He is the Word of God! (John 1:1)
Not all use it (thinking of Christ) by walking in the truth... but too many are only knowing 'about' the truth. Only having an academic knowledge of God's Word. Bible memorization only.
Walking in the truth by means of the filing of the Spirit is experiencing eternal life. Eternal to the capacity for us now given to experience on earth. But, simply knowing truth is not the same thing. (Bible memorization) The Spirit must make the truth be living inwardlly in us as an expression of our being in Christ! His thinking on a matter becomes our thinking on that matter.
Walking in the Spirit makes us able to become one with the Truth. Being filled with the Spirit is when truth becomes matter of fact in the sense that our eyes begin to see the world through they eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ. Its as if He is right there with us sharing in the thought.
That is when we will discover He is in us!
"On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you."
John 14:20
John 14:20
Mysteries are never simple at first.
grace and peace .....
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GenemZ
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How do you know that? Because to feel its right?
Feelings? You proclaim that Adam's spirit did not die based upon what?
"But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,
for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
for when you eat from it you will surely die.”
The Lord in the Hebrew warned Adam of something that translators often skim over. It is not literally translated often and they interpret rather than lay it out as it was said ...
You will surely die? When God says you die? Adding 'surely' is not needed. For everything God declares to be so is automaticaly absolute.
Well? The Hebrew states: "In dying you shall die."
That phrase mentions two deaths. Not one. Spiritual death, and then the resultant physical death.
Two deaths! First one (spiritual) leading to the second death (physical).
And, since we can know Adam and Eve repented during their hiding in fear? God restored them as like we made spiritual when we are born again.
God first covered for their sins by providing a blood offering. How? To have the animal skins to cover them with? An animal was killed. Blood was shed. The Lord restored their human spirits, but did not restore them to the way of life they had known before while remaining sinless.
God gives grace to the humble. To be humble means to be correctable and teachable. God does not give grace to the proud who are not correctable.. making them unteachable to sound doctrine..
Such teachings we see in debates are to reveal to us whom we are. Its the potters wheel in action.
grace and peace ....................
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GenemZ
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Adam would have had everlasting life. Not eternal life.
For the tree of life granted one would live physically forever. Everlsating life = life having a beginning, but never ending.
In contrast to everlasting life? Eternal life if God's life. Life having no beginning! And, having no end.
Everlasting life is created life - having a beginning!
If Adam passed the test and was told for him to eat from the tree of life? Adam would have then lived physically forever.
In contrast to everlasting life? God had no beginning and has no end. Now that is eternal life. Timeless being. Un-created life.
God is everlasting to everlasting! He goes back in time forever.. and forward in time forever. Always has been being! And, always will be being! Everlasting life simply has a start and then goes on forever. It was not existing until created.
We need to know and understand these differences to please the Lord with our thinking. Its why we get presented such puzzles to figure out, and hopefully to get to see the picture they present us. The big picture unfolds when the pieces we have colleceted are put in their place.
grace and peace ......................
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GenemZ
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Not quite...
If we walk in the pride of our ego? But, have a natural ability and knack for bible verse memorization?
We will not be, in our experience, " be in Christ."
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock.
If anyone hears my voice and opens the door,
I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."
Rev 3:19-20
If we walk in dogmatic error? Or, even false doctrine we accepted? Jesus will be on the 'outside' knocking on the door.
Only the Holy Spirit is guaranteed to never leave us even if He is being grieved or squelched by us!
Jesus is not 'at home' with the believer who prefers false teaching. False teaching makes us outside of Christ in our experience.
We all need corrections along the way to our growing Christ. Its to be expected! For his ways are not our ways. His thoughts are not our thoughts. Until shown the truth we tend to gravitate to our ways until corrected.
Once corrected, and accepted? = transformation by grace.
And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed
into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
2 Corinthians 3:18
into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
2 Corinthians 3:18
That is the process of being made more and more in Christ!
grace and peace ...................
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GenemZ
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Some clarification is needed, please.
God arranged for the body for Christ to be produced without male sperm. He did not create Christ.
Your body is not you. Your soul in that body is you.
That factor was revealed when Christ said the following concerning the body he was to inhabit as a man....
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me." Heb 10:5
Those words spoken were by a mature adult. Not a child's words.
Words spoken about the fetus that was prepared (not created) and was to become his body when born of Mary.
Christ was never created anywhere. For Christ is God. And, God is never created.
Just wanted to clarify..
grace and peace .........
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God created Jesus as God in the Flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16
"God is A Spirit".
"The Holy Spirit".
The Holy Spirit created the God Man, inside the womb of Virgin Mary.
The Angel Gabriel said of this Holy SEED, in Mary... ...""""you will conceive in your womb and bear a son"""
To "conceive" is when sperm and egg become joined.
IN this case, God's seed was the Holy Word manifesting Christ the living Word, as joined to Mary's womb, eventually birthing "Emmanuel " "God with us".
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fhansen
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As long as man heeds the voice of God, he will live. Adam failed that test at some point in Eden. We're here to have Adam's choice reversed in us, his doubt, his lack of faith, hope, and love. We're here, with the help of revelation and grace-combined with the experience of a godless world-to come to regain the knowledge of God, and to heed His voice again.
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GenemZ
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The one we now call Jesus ( with the exception of his body ) had existed before the Incarnation.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will
but to do the will of him who sent me. John 6:38
He came down from heaven to make himself become as a man!
Jesus was not 'created' as God in the flesh. He became God in the flesh, manifesting Himself as a man.
Rather, the Lord God of Israel in heaven, willingly changed how He was to be manifested. He 'made' himself to become as a man. He did so with His soul inhabiting the sinless human body provided through the virgin Mary.
Being both God and Soul in union ( I can explain how that was possible if you wish) he had to make Himself to become as a man.
He was not simply some man that God had created.
Who, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Philippians 2:6-8
grace and peace ........
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Before Jesus was virgin born as the God man, He was the Bread of Heaven, and the Word who was God.
He was manifested as God...... 1 Timothy 3:16, as a human. To take away the sin of the world.
Jesus, was fully man and fully God.
He had to be born of a woman to become a Human.
He Father is God.
The Seed that created Him, as God wrapped in Human Flesh was the Holy Spirit.
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Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit inside a Virgin's womb as a HUMAN
"Jesus".
This is GOD wrapped in HUMAN flesh, come down from Heaven to do this.. = "Jesus came into the world to SAVE sinners".
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GenemZ
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How could he have been created when He has always been God?
Only the body was created. The Soul of Jesus was with God *before* the Incarnation!
The Soul of God was revealed in the OT, but easily overlooked while reading a passage...
Jesus being fully man had to have a soul!
That soul was always being in heaven in union with God being manifested as the Lord God of Israel!
Here are some examples !
(keep in mind. God is 'spirit', not 'soul')
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16
(two natures)
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates." Psalm 11:5
(two natures)
“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isaiah 1:13-14
(two natures)
Jesus in John 4:23-14 said that God is 'spirit!' = God is not 'soul.'
Those passages reveal plainly two different natures were being in union in Heaven before the Incarnation!
Jehovah and Soul! The Lord God of Israel.
Therefore: It was only his human body that was created. The Soul of Jehovah then entered that body to make Himself become as a man!
grace and peace ............................
...............................
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He was God, pre-incarnate as John 1.
AS Jesus, "God became a Man"... 1 Timothy 3:16
God the Spirit, = The WORD was God
Jesus = "the Lord is that Spirit". 2 Corinthians 3:17
He's also "the Bread come down from Heaven"
He is also...>Jesus said....I am from Above and You are from Below
He is also ascended back to where He was before
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Then why do you keep saying "Jesus was created by the Holy Spirit inside a Virgin's womb as a HUMAN"?
Do you think His humanity didn't exist prior to the Incarnation?
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GenemZ
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And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory."
It says God was manifested in the flesh. Being God in the flesh does not make him into a man.
It takes a *soul* to make him a man.
Where did his soul come from?
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