J. Vernon McGee taught cheap grace

d taylor

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What about what it says in Romans 10:14, how will they hear without a preacher? The message should be embraced and that is not a work. It is a commitment before there is any outworking of that commitment. Yes, the object of faith is Christ himself, but it is only recognized as genuine faith under the weight of our own sinfulness, because it must sink in that we are really convicted of our own sinfulness, not just the sin of unbelief.

That is correct, to tell people about how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life by faith in Jesus The Messiah.
But many times that is not what is preached, to people. Too many times the object of faith becomes something other than Jesus. That is when the message, can not correctly teach a person, what to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If a gospel in its presentation, does not, only point to faith in Jesus, it is a failed gospel.
 
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That is correct, to tell people about how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life by faith in Jesus The Messiah.
But many times that is not what is preached, to people. Too many times the object of faith becomes something other than Jesus. That is when the message, can not correctly teach a person, what to do to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

If a gospel in its presentation, does not, only point to faith in Jesus, it is a failed gospel.
What about when it says that God's law is a schoolmaster that brings us to Christ (Gal 3:24)? The knowledge of our sinfulness reveals our need for the savior. Most of the preaching should in fact be about God's law so that we are thoroughly convinced that we are in a helpless state. And then and only then, preaching on the gracious offer presented to us is more well received. We can't just simply preach on the sin of unbelief only. And what do you think of John the Baptist rebuking an unbelieving man of his sin of adultery? I'm speaking about Herod the tetrarch.
 
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d taylor

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What about when it says that God's law is a schoolmaster that brings us to Christ (Gal 3:24)? The knowledge of our sinfulness reveals our need for the savior. Most of the preaching should in fact be about God's law so that we are thoroughly convinced that we are in a helpless state. And then and only then, preaching on the gracious offer presented to us is more well received. We can't just simply preach on the sin of unbelief only. And what do you think of John the Baptist rebuking an unbelieving man of his sin of adultery? I'm speaking about Herod the tetrarch.

Galatians continues to say that since faith has come, people are no longer under a tutor. Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, so sin is not an issue or an obstacle to belief/faith. If a person is persuaded by God's promise, that God's promise is true. Then they can believe in Jesus, there is nothing they have to do sin wise.

Preaching that is if a person what people to receive Eternal Life, should be only about Jesus and proving that Jesus is who He says He is. That is why the gospel of John was written, to tell people how to have life (eternal).

Joph the Baptist ministry was two fold to tell people how to have eternal life, by faith in Jesus. But his ministry was also to prepare the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah from The Tanakh.
 
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d taylor

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What about when it says that God's law is a schoolmaster that brings us to Christ (Gal 3:24)? The knowledge of our sinfulness reveals our need for the savior. Most of the preaching should in fact be about God's law so that we are thoroughly convinced that we are in a helpless state. And then and only then, preaching on the gracious offer presented to us is more well received. We can't just simply preach on the sin of unbelief only. And what do you think of John the Baptist rebuking an unbelieving man of his sin of adultery? I'm speaking about Herod the tetrarch.

If person who is on an island who has never heard of christianity. If they find a piece of paper washed up on the shore of the island and that piece of paper is readable. What is written on the paper is part of John chapter 11. With what is on the paper, do they have enough information to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

Below is what is written on the paper.

So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles away. And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”


Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
 
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RoBo1988

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I disagree with Dr. McGee on several things but I still listen to his 5 year Bible study through The Word of God on my way to work in the morning. I'm not ready to label him a heretic, though.

Most of his commentary on scripture is timeless, despite the fact he passed away almost 35 years ago (12-01-1988). I am thankful he "left the cookies on the bottom shelf". He would say about The Bible: "Read it. Pray about it. Hear what others say about it" I always felt that was a good guideline to study The Word by.

My wife and I both had his 5 volume set when we married- hers was paperback, mine was hardback so we gave hers away, and kept mine.
 
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Galatians continues to say that since faith has come, people are no longer under a tutor. Jesus came and took away the sin of the world, so sin is not an issue or an obstacle to belief/faith. If a person is persuaded by God's promise, that God's promise is true. Then they can believe in Jesus, there is nothing they have to do sin wise.

Preaching that is if a person what people to receive Eternal Life, should be only about Jesus and proving that Jesus is who He says He is. That is why the gospel of John was written, to tell people how to have life (eternal).

Joph the Baptist ministry was two fold to tell people how to have eternal life, by faith in Jesus. But his ministry was also to prepare the nation of Israel to accept Jesus as the promised Messiah from The Tanakh.
Now let me just think through this for a moment. We are no longer under a tutor? Don’t miss the big picture here, for it is unbelievers that are under the law, but for the believer they are under grace. Don’t you mean that the tutor leads us to or brings us to Christ? You could say the instrument of salvation is faith. But there is a logical necessity of sanctification and good works as a consequence of Christ’s free justification of sinners. You might say it is in seed form for a new believer but it is never divorced from justified sinners for some. But I should probably stop here, because I don’t know if I’m correct in calling sanctification as something in seed form for the new believer.





But what I want to say is that all true believers are sanctified in a certain sense. There are many degrees of sanctification, and not all believers are equally sanctified, for it is a process.


For the believer, they are no longer under a tutor, yes, but they still need to be taught about God’s Law to be reminded about what they are not under and if they hope to know how to serve Christ too, not for earning merit, but out of thanks.
 
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d taylor

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Now let me just think through this for a moment. We are no longer under a tutor? Don’t miss the big picture here, for it is unbelievers that are under the law, but for the believer they are under grace. Don’t you mean that the tutor leads us to or brings us to Christ? You could say the instrument of salvation is faith. But there is a logical necessity of sanctification and good works as a consequence of Christ’s free justification of sinners. You might say it is in seed form for a new believer but it is never divorced from justified sinners for some. But I should probably stop here, because I don’t know if I’m correct in calling sanctification as something in seed form for the new believer.





But what I want to say is that all true believers are sanctified in a certain sense. There are many degrees of sanctification, and not all believers are equally sanctified, for it is a process.


For the believer, they are no longer under a tutor, yes, but they still need to be taught about God’s Law to be reminded about what they are not under and if they hope to know how to serve Christ too, not for earning merit, but out of thanks.

What is this with the law, and a constant reference to the law. The law has noting to do with whether a person believes in Jesus. They need not know one single word of the law to be able to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life.
 
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d taylor

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If person who is on an island who has never heard of christianity. If they find a piece of paper washed up on the shore of the island and that piece of paper is readable. What is written on the paper is part of John chapter 11. With what is on the paper, do they have enough information to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.

Below is what is written on the paper.

So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles away. And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”


Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
-
I like how people (christians) will avoid this above question. Why because most (i believe) simply believe that it takes more than faith in Jesus to receive Eternal Life salvation.
 
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What is this with the law, and a constant reference to the law. The law has noting to do with whether a person believes in Jesus. They need not know one single word of the law to be able to believe in Jesus for Eternal Life.
A gospel presentation should contain more than just the good news because we need to understand the bad news to appreciate what is good. The law of God brings the knowledge of sin. Just read through Romans and see how much the subject of sin is brought up. It is sometimes compared to a cancer patient who doesn't know they have cancer and a doctor telling the patient to take a prescription and they will be made well. But the patient won't take the prescription because they have no reason to believe they are not well. But if the doctor explains what terminal condition they have and begin to show them the evidence that proves it, they will see the need for the cure.
Romans 3:19-20
 
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Jesus is YHWH

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A gospel presentation should contain more than just the good news because we need to understand the bad news to appreciate what is good. The law of God brings the knowledge of sin. Just read through Romans and see how much the subject of sin is brought up. It is sometimes compared to a cancer patient who doesn't know they have cancer and a doctor telling the patient to take a prescription and they will be made well. But the patient won't take the prescription because they have no reason to believe they are not well. But if the doctor explains what terminal condition they have and begin to show them the evidence that proves it, they will see the need for the cure.
Romans 3:19-20
When we read Pauls description of the gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-8 he talks about sin ( bad news ).

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
 
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d taylor

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A gospel presentation should contain more than just the good news because we need to understand the bad news to appreciate what is good. The law of God brings the knowledge of sin. Just read through Romans and see how much the subject of sin is brought up. It is sometimes compared to a cancer patient who doesn't know they have cancer and a doctor telling the patient to take a prescription and they will be made well. But the patient won't take the prescription because they have no reason to believe they are not well. But if the doctor explains what terminal condition they have and begin to show them the evidence that proves it, they will see the need for the cure.
Romans 3:19-20

Jesus message did not when, He spoke to the woman at the well. He simply offer her the free gift of living water (Eternal Life)
 
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Pastor Bonhoeffer, who coined the term "cheap grace", meant something specific by this term.

Costly grace, for Bonhoeffer, is real grace--it's costly because it is Jesus Christ living, Incarnate, and crucified; it cost God the life of His only-begotten Son. And thus such grace can never be cheap, it is costly--it is the life of the Son of God poured out unto death for the sake of unworthy sinners, and thus free and for all.

"Since we have grace let us go on sinning" is not real grace, that is cheap grace. It is cheap grace because we treat grace as cheap, we cheapen it, we call the great cost of the life of the Son of God cheap.

It is, in Bonhoeffer's words, forgiveness without repentance. But that's not real grace. Real grace is not forgiveness because of our repentance; but it is forgiveness that heals and mends the wounded and broken sinner. Real grace means there is real sin, and real sin means confessing that we are sinners; it is beholding ourselves truthfully, honestly, actually as we are in the mirror of God's Law which proclaims us sinners, declares us condemned because of our sin.

Apart from grace we are wretches, sinners, condemned and damned sinners. Such produces despair and grief. And it is to the despairing, grieving, broken, wounded, hurting sinner that God says, "I forgive you".

It is the sick who need a physician, Jesus says. He says, "I did not come to call the righteous, but the unrighteous to repentance."

We make grace cheap by saying, "I am a good person, so of course God loves and forgives me." and we are not forgiven.
But real grace compels us to say, "I am a wretch and a sinner, God have mercy on me" and we are forgiven.

We are forgiven our sins because we are real sinners who need forgiveness.

This is not religious theater, we are not putting on a production, we are not a holy club of sanctimonious and pious people living our best lives with rainbows and farts that smell like roses.

We are dirty, rotten, wicked, and damned sinners. And God says to those who are dirty, rotten, wicked, and damned sinner: "Here is the gift of My beloved Son, His life for yours, you are forgiven." And He does that for no other reason than because He loves us.

Why should God love us? Because that's Who and What He is.

He loves us because of Who He is.
He saves us because of Who He is.

Not by anything we have done, not by any good we could produce, not by any merits we could offer. But solely by the super-abundant kindness and mercy of a God who sees us--sees us in our stark naked shame--and says, "Come and feast in My house as My child" and who washes us clean, clothes us with the white linens of His only-begotten Son, and declares us members of His household, not as slaves, but as children.

See how great the Father's love for us. Behold how wondrous His kindness toward us.

The error of "Lordship salvation" is that it denies that grace is grace at all.
And those who preach a cheap grace refuse to be forgiven because they refuse to confess what they are apart from grace and how deep their need for God's mercy.

The free grace of God is the price He paid on Mt. Calvary to declare you and me, wretched and unworthy sinners, righteous and forgiven entirely on the basis of Christ's own righteous obedience alone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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fhansen

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And those who preach a cheap grace refuse to be forgiven because they refuse to confess what they are apart from grace and how deep their need for God's mercy.
Yes, or those who preach a cheap grace might even accept that they're forgiven but then deny that they must, as a child of God, now walk in His ways, by His grace.
 
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Mark Quayle

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When we read Pauls description of the gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-8 he talks about sin ( bad news ).

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
Agreed, and, as we know, all scripture works together. Thus, any mention of sin in scripture invokes everything that scripture brings to bear on the subject. (Which, as we also know, is beyond any of us to fully comprehend.)

I also wanted to remark that according to Romans 1, we naturally know God to some degree, but the natural man suppresses that knowledge, yet we remain without excuse. We naturally do not want to face the fact that we are sinners. We KNOW sin is more horrible than we can ever admit. And we know that admitting to the reality of who God is, invokes submission, and by nature we CANNOT ALLOW THAT! All that is brought to bear in the Gospel. These are what the born again WERE. These are the ones confronted with the Gospel.
 
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When we read Pauls description of the gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-8 he talks about sin ( bad news ).

Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas,[b] and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.
I should also make note that there was more to the analogy of a man being proved he had cancer. Just as the ten commandments are a mirror to show us who we are in truth (a moral compass), the analogy of a doctor showing the ten signs and symptoms would be more than enough evidence to point to the reality of our condition. What is all of this to say? we are to see more than just the sin of unbelief in our selves when we come to repent and that is why we are to repent of our sins (not just the sins of unbelief) and put our trust in Christ. And this makes sense when it comes to a congregation on the Lord's day. If the preacher presents the gospel and calls unbelieving sinners to repent of all their sins and place their trust in Christ, the believer can hear that and understand how they too need to repent of all their sins (as there is always a time God may show us more sins we need to repent of progressively throughout our lives) and they can see how that plea applies to them as well in their progressive sanctification.
 
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Der Alte

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If person who is on an island who has never heard of christianity. If they find a piece of paper washed up on the shore of the island and that piece of paper is readable. What is written on the paper is part of John chapter 11. With what is on the paper, do they have enough information to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation.
Below is what is written on the paper.
So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles away. And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. Now Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You.”
Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
Romans 4:15
(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Romans 2:14
(14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:​
 
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d taylor

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Romans 4:15​

(15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13

(13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Romans 2:14

(14) For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

Nothing in the verses posted that address the question i posted.
 
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Der Alte

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Nothing in the verses posted that address the question i posted.
The 3 vss. answer the question if anyone does not have the law there is no sin, small children, infants, the mentally challenged, peoples who live in remote areas and have never heard the gospel, etc. do they go to hades or sheol? Where there is no law there is no sin. But if you want to believe otherwise who am I to stand in your way.
 
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d taylor

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The 3 vss. answer the question if anyone does not have the law there is no sin, small children, infants, the mentally challenged, peoples who live in remote areas and have never heard the gospel, etc. do they go to hades or sheol? Where there is no law there is no sin. But if you want to believe otherwise who am I to stand in your way.

My illustration was not about a person not having the law. It was about a person finding words from The Bible telling a person how to have God's free gift of eternal Life.

Is the verses from John 11, enough information for that person to believe in Jesus and receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Plus Jesus has taken away the sin of the world, so at the great white throne judgment. Unbelievers are not judged based on their sin.
 
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My illustration was not about a person not having the law. It was about a person finding words from The Bible telling a person how to have God's free gift of eternal Life.

Is the verses from John 11, enough information for that person to believe in Jesus and receive God's free gift of Eternal Life.

Plus Jesus has taken away the sin of the world, so at the great white throne judgment. Unbelievers are not judged based on their sin.
If someone never heard of the Bible or Christianity and stumbled upon a chapter in John 11 it might be enough to pique their curiosity. And maybe if they flip to the back of the page and read 1 John chapter one it may be enlightening. But one wonders if they are receiving cryptic messages from the shore they can probably get the whole revelation if they are really seeking for it. Most people have heard pieces of the Bible told to them so that might play on someone's conscience as they are focused on just one chapter. But God would certainly lead the person to know more if he is interested to know more of this book and where he can hear more about it.
But you must repent. This means a complete change regarding sin. -- genuine sorrow and shame at the vileness and filthiness of your sin and forsaking it and changing the direction of your life. To repent is to go in a new direction, seeking wholeheartedly to live in a way that pleases God.
 
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