Discussion New Apostolic Reformation, Infights and Hunts, Sorting True from False?

GoldenKingGaze

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I typed into a website and found criticism of it by some who said it was NAR, and NAR was new to me. I had to look it up. I never read any of C P Wagner works. I also judge not to agree with the end times transfer of wealth from the unrighteous to the just... I hold to Bible promises. I want the life of blessings.

I think the old witch hunter and thirty years war type of people look for reasons to infight, using NAR currently. Some prayers we all pray are now considered NAR and the infighters want them cancelled. Like "Dear God, give us government with faith and Christian values." These prayers are ancient. Even going back to Constantine.

Wouldn't it be great if China became a Christian country? I think it unfair that a person can be labelled NAR. It is a theological movement and has no members. It based on Wagner's observations of dynamic expanding churches across the world back in 1988... and so if he got it askew, it is not fair for them to be labelled and cancelled by his mistake... we need church expansion, it is God's Kingdom will, His commission. Lives depend on it. I don't think NAR is all wrong, but partly so it needs sorting.

From Wikipedia, what is right or wrong with this? How can we bless churches that expand while not erring in our ways? How can we deal with the jealous and otherwise motivated infighters? New Apostolic Reformation Description
 

hislegacy

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I typed into a website and found criticism of it by some who said it was NAR, and NAR was new to me.
Curious - your statement says NAR is new to you - but you have been talking about NAR for almost eight years now?

Question: Does NAR have a large following? The reason I ask is that I don't generally hear about it except on message boards.

C. Peter Wagner Passed away 7 years ago - they do not even have a website.

Can you expand on who they are and if they are active somewhere - thank you.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Curious - your statement says NAR is new to you - but you have been talking about NAR for almost eight years now?
OK, NAR was new to me then.
Question: Does NAR have a large following? The reason I ask is that I don't generally hear about it except on message boards.
Wikipedia is inaccurate so I do not know. C P Wagner was a lecturer but I am not sure if his students agree with his ideas. One local one doesn't. I doubt there are many churches under his umbrella. Those Wikipedia say follow him, some say they don't. Looking at Randy Clark. It also mentions a website belonging to the late C P Wagner.
C. Peter Wagner Passed away 7 years ago - they do not even have a website.

Can you expand on who they are and if they are active somewhere - thank you.
Global Harvest
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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It's funny that most of people who are using NAR as a pejorative are Calvinist, so they are criticizing a movement that is 10,000 times more scriptural than they themselves even care to be.
Can you bring forward some examples or quotes? Bearing in mind, Catch the Fire Toronto has Calvinist members.
 
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Pioneer3mm

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I don't think NAR is all wrong, but partly so it needs sorting.
Good point.
---
NAR..often called..The Third Wave.
---
The First Wave
- The Pentecostal Movement
- Azusa Street Revival
- Early 20th century.
---
The Second Wave
- The Charismatic Movement
- Beginning in 1960s.
---
The Third Wave
- Late 1980s.
---
*According to Peter Wagner.
- I met him..many years ago.
---
I have been observing/involved in..the Charismatic Movement..
- since 1970s.
 
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jiminpa

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Can you bring forward some examples or quotes? Bearing in mind, Catch the Fire Toronto has Calvinist members.
I'm changing my response. I will just say that most of the accusations I've heard can be well summed up by Johnny Mac, and his Strange Fire rally against the Holy Spirit.

I want to focus more on the Godly, than the accuser. I'm glad that some Calvinists are open to Spiritual things. I've known some Calvinists who genuinely loved God as far as their philosophy would allow.

IHOP, (not the diner chain) in Kansas City is practicing what they see in the Bible. They have live worship music constantly. They have corporate prayer during half of the worship sets. They are dedicated to the Word and the leading of the Holy Spirit. That leads them into things that dignified religion hates, but that's nothing new.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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Good point.
---
NAR..often called..The Third Wave.
---
The First Wave
- The Pentecostal Movement
- Azusa Street Revival
- Early 20th century.
---
The Second Wave
- The Charismatic Movement
- Beginning in 1960s.
---
The Third Wave
- Late 1980s.
---
*According to Peter Wagner.
- I met him..many years ago.
---
I have been observing/involved in..the Charismatic Movement..
- since 1970s.
I thought the third wave was the work through John Wimber and perhaps John Arnott.
 
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Pioneer3mm

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I thought the third wave was the work through John Wimber and perhaps John Arnott.
The Third Wave is a movement.
- Several people were involved.
- John Wimber, Peter Wagner..
---
The term..'The Third Wave' was started/coined by Peter Wagner.
---
Wikipedia has an article.
- 'Neo-Charismatic Movement'
- More detail/info.
 
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hislegacy

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The website has not been updated in more than a decade.

Just wanted to clarify - the NAR from what I can decipher is mostly a non active movement. There are small groups here and there - but not of any size or influence.

I have great empathy for the late C. Peter Wagner. I sometimes wonder what his ministry would have looked like if he had stayed at Fuller.
 
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jiminpa

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I think part of why it seems like a dead movement is that they aren't really trying to be a movement. Most of them are just doing what they see in scripture and hear God saying to apply it.

I think that there is a move, and I think that those labelled NAR have helped lay the groundwork with prayer, but I don't know that it will be tied to NAR directly.
 
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GoldenKingGaze

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I checked Bill Johnson's Ministry the other day. They gave me a quick reply. Bethel are not in any way NAR adherents and don't know much about it.
Randy Clark is not in the theological movement either, and Daniel Kolenda explained he isn't, with these latter two examples explanations on video.

Years ago an Englishman wanted me to join in with him and others in picking on young upper middle class stylish Englishmen. There was a picture of one, in fine clothes and with a gold necklace. Named Chavs. In the USA there is name calling Nerds... but in England if they want someone to hate they have the Chavs and cry at them, Chav scum. I think it a significant problem that wikipedia claims that NAR is a real movement and that Bill Johnson and Randy are in it. And that some media like Eternity News, acknowledge it exists and in one article checked Hillsong for signs of NAR. And they draw back from praying for what turn out to be the seven mountains.

I think praying for people in and going into government, the arts, educations and ministry... is a good idea. And rejecting such a push for us, to be authorities and influencers, is counter productive.
 
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jiminpa

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I checked Bill Johnson's Ministry the other day. They gave me a quick reply. Bethel are not in any way NAR adherents and don't know much about it.
Randy Clark is not in the theological movement either, and Daniel Kolenda explained he isn't, with these latter two examples explanations on video.

Years ago an Englishman wanted me to join in with him and others in picking on young upper middle class stylish Englishmen. There was a picture of one, in fine clothes and with a gold necklace. Named Chavs. In the USA there is name calling Nerds... but in England if they want someone to hate they have the Chavs and cry at them, Chav scum. I think it a significant problem that wikipedia claims that NAR is a real movement and that Bill Johnson and Randy are in it. And that some media like Eternity News, acknowledge it exists and in one article checked Hillsong for signs of NAR. And they draw back from praying for what turn out to be the seven mountains.

I think praying for people in and going into government, the arts, educations and ministry... is a good idea. And rejecting such a push for us, to be authorities and influencers, is counter productive.
People of the same philosophy as John MacArthur always have to have heretics outside of themselves to burn at the stake, in order to not have time to look at how heretical their own theology is, so they keep making these straw heretic boogeymen, who, ironically are all far more biblical than their own belief system. One of the straw, boogeyman, heretics du jour is the NAR.
 
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