Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,022.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Similarly 1 Cor 15 1-4 says nothing of keeping the Law.

Let's not add to His Word to support a human theology.

15 Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures....

No mention of Law - not to be quoted to support as Law centred theology of faith.
I did not claim that 1 Corinthian 15:1-4 speaks about keeping the law, so I did not add anything to God's word. In Titus 2:14, it says Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for good works, so it speaks about what Jesus accomplished through what is described in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, so Titus 2:11-14 does support a law-centered theology of faith.

Same applies to the reference to Acts 21.

There is a but in verse 25... Gentiles were taught by Paul NOT to adhere to the Law and the Jewish customs - that is the very reason why they wanted to kill him.

That is why he was encouraged to appear as a compliant Jew for his own protection.

These verses do not support a Law centred faith and should not be presented to support such.
Acts 21:25 is either intended to be an exhaust list for mature believers that limits what Gentiles should obey to just those four things and nothing else, or it is not. The moment that someone tries to say that Gentiles should obviously obey other things like the Ten Commandments, the greatest two commandments, or things listed in verses like 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Galatians 5:19-21, and Titus 3:1-2 is the moment that they can no longer treat Acts 21:25 as being an exhaustive list that limits which laws Gentiles should follow. In Acts 15:19-21, it gives the justification for what was said in Acts 21:25, and what they were discussing was not an exhaustive list for mature believers, but a list that wouldn't make things too difficult for new believers, which they excused because they expected that Gentiles would continue to learn about how to obey Moses by hearing him taught every Sabbath in the synagogues.

In Acts 6:13, there were false witnesses who testified that Stephen never ceased to speak against God's law, so it is not unreasonable for Paul and James to be concerned with false accusations and plan to do something that would show that Paul continued to follow Christ by living in obedience to God's law.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So when God gives instructions about the right way to live and someone obediently relies on what God instructed, then you do not have for considering their reliance on God to be self-works rather than faith.


The goal of the law is to teach us how to know Jesus (Matthew 7:23) and this purpose has not been ended, but rather we still need to know him by obeying it. I keep agreeing that justification comes by faith, so it is not clear to me why you keep bringing that up.


Mosaic Law righteousness via self-works has never been a thing, so it is not something that can be ended. Laws for how to act in accordance with God's righteousness will always exist because God's righteousness is eternal.


In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Romans 2:13, Paul said that only doers of the law will be declared righteous. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law. All of these verses are are talking about the content of those gifts and say nothing about earning those gifts.


I keep agreeing that righteousness comes by faith and not by self-works, though all of those verses are in accordance with obeying God's law as I discussed.


I did not argue against any of those verses, but discussed how I think that they should be understood.



Please interact with what I said about post #10 instead of just restating what you said.

In Matthew 10, Jesus sent his disciples out to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom, which calls for repentance from our disobedience to God's law, so it is strange that you would try to apply that verse when you are in direct opposition to the mission that Jesus sent his disciples out to accomplish.


I don't consider what we are doing to be bickering, but if you don't want to talk to me because you consider our exchanges to be unfruitful, then that is your prerogative. I consider people speaking against what the Lord has commanded to be a poor reflection on them and the Lord.


In Palms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, so may God's also be gracious to you and yours.
Fair enough, shaking off the dust & back on ignore.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Faith brings/accesses righteousness

Gal 3:
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
(MY NOTE: Abraham put his FAITH in God & God declared Him righteous).

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
(MY NOTE: God justifies the gentiles/heathen through faith)

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
(MY NOTE: The curse of the law, that we're redeemed from is: Death & all the penalties levied for sinning. (See Deut 28)

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(MY NOTE: Gentiles receive the covenant promise blessing made to Abraham, "righteousness imputed thru faith". Received void of Mosaic law adherence (Rom 3:28)

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(MY NOTE: Abraham's covenant promise is made 430 yrs before the Mosaic/LAW covenant. The Mosaic LAW covenant didn't/doesn't, annual/replace, the FAITH covenant promise God made to Abraham)

The intent of the law:

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
(MY NOTE: The Law was ADDED, to expose, condemn & declare the penalties levied for transgressions/SIN. The law was in effect, [time sensitive word >] ""Until""" the promised seed [Christ's Holy Spirit] should come. For Christ is the end of keeping laws to obtain a right standing before God/righteousness. Righteousness/a right standing before God is now obtained thru faith)

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
(MY NOTE: Righteousness/a right standing before God is given by/thru Faith, void of any law keeping)

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(MY NOTE: All are sinners & deserve the laws just penalty/DEATH. But, thru the "Faith OF Christ" & His finished sin atoning work. Those that trust/believe/have FAITH in Him & His work. It's this FAITH whereby Christ (takes ALL the believers sins, imputes them onto Himself) & imputes His righteousness onto the believer placing them in a right standing with the Father)

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(MY NOTE Before [< time sensitive word] faith/Christ came & paid sins wage/price. Everyone was under ALL the curses/punishments/judgments levied [Deut 28] for sin)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
(MY NOTE: The law exposes sin & teaches us God's rules. It's faith in Christ's finished sin atoning work whereby the believer is saved/justified/placed in a sinless/right standing [Christ bought & paid for every sin judgement the law requires] with/before the Father.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
(MY NOTE: Believers do not obtain a right standing before God thru law keeping/good works)

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
(MY NOTE: It's the believers faith in Christ's finish sin atoning work that places them in a right standing before God)

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
(MY NOTE: Every Holy Spirit indwelt [received by/thru FAITH] believer is placed in a right standing with the Father)

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Gen 15 Abrahamic covenant promise:

Vs 6 the righteousness by faith promise
Vs 12, Abram is sleeping
Vs 17, The Lord Himself/alone passes through the pieces
Vs 18, That day Lord make's a covenant with Abram.

This Genesis covenant promise was 100% the Lord's work. Based on Abram's faith that God was able to keep/do it. Gen 22:16 (A) By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD.

The new testament/covenant post cross salvation (Christ's baptism/sealing with His Holy Spirit) is a free gift given via faith in the merits/work/sin payment & resurrection of Christ. Again this covenant is invoked & maintained 100% via the Lord's work.

Being justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus (Rom. 3:24). This redemption is accessed via FAITH (Ron 5:1-2)

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a "better covenant" which was established upon "better promises"
(MY NOTE: Christ Mediates A BETTER Covenant, Established Upon BETTER Promises).

Christ is BETTER then angels, because they worship the Christ. BETTER then Moses, because He created Him. BETTER then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is once for all time. BETTER then the law, because Christ mediates a BETTER, faith based covenant.

Righteous by works of the law has been replaced by "faith"

Gal 3:
19 Why, then, the Law [what was its purpose]? It was added [after the promise to Abraham, to reveal to people their guilt] because of transgressions [that is, to make people conscious of the sinfulness of sin], and [the Law] was ordained through angels and delivered to Israel by the hand of a mediator [Moses, the mediator between God and Israel, to be in effect] until the Seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

22 But the Scripture has imprisoned everyone [everything—the entire world] under sin, so that [the inheritance, the blessing of salvation] which was promised through faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe [in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s precious Son].

23 Now before faith came, we were kept in custody under the Law, [perpetually] imprisoned [in preparation] for the faith that was destined to be revealed

24 with the result that the Law has become our tutor and our disciplinarian to guide us to Christ, so that we may be [c]justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] by faith.

25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under [the control and authority of] a tutor and disciplinarian
Posted Gal 3:19-25 verses found here: Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 3 - Amplified Bible

Recap:
Vs 19 The Law was in effect UNTIL Christ came, Vs 23 the law was in effect UNTIL "faith" arrived, Vs 24 The law was our sin consequence/disciplinarian teacher, Vs 25 But now that "faith" has come, we are no longer under the control & authority of] this teacher/disciplinarian.

Justification by Faith

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets. 22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law [it leads to Him and its purpose is fulfilled in Him], for [granting] righteousness to everyone who believes [in Him as Savior].
www.biblegateway.com
Bible Gateway passage: Romans 10 - Amplified Bible
The Word of Faith Brings Salvation - Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for Israel is for their salvation. For I testify about them that they have a certain enthusiasm for God, but not in accordance with [correct and vital] knowledge [about Him and His purposes]. For...
www.biblegateway.com www.biblegateway.com

(MY NOTE: By fulfilling the OT law's requirement. Christ brought it's function/purpose to an END/conclusion. The NT requirement to obtain righteousness that God has implemented is: Place your "Faith" in the Faithful/obedient (Rom 5:19) finished sin atoning work of Christ. Found in Hs death (sins required wage Paid), burial (proof Jesus died) & resurrection (Father's receipt, sins payment received & accepted)

These Gifts Holy Spirit, Eternal Life, Righteousness given by God to believers based on FAITH. Faith placed in Christ's sin atoning work.

HOLY SPIRIT - A gift given thru FAITH: Acts 10:45, 11:17

Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit falls on gentiles, void of any Mosaic law adherence!)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: By FAITH these gentiles received the free gift of God's eternally indwelling, salvation sealing Holy Spirit. Completely void of any Mosaic laws!)

Acts 11:
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
(MY NOTE: Those that believed/had FAITH on the Lord Jesus Christ. Freely received Christ's Holy Spirit baptism)

ETERNAL LIFE - A gift given thru FAITH:

Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(MY NOTE: The GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE given to he who has FAITH on the Son)

Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(MY NOTE: He that has FAITH in Christ & believes the Father sent Him "HAS" [present tense] ETERNAL LIFE.)

Jn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
(MY NOTE: ETERNAL LIFE is GIVEN to he who has FAITH in the Son)

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(MY NOTE: the GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE is GIVEN FREELY thru FAITH in Christ. Also see Rom 5:1-2)

RIGHTEOUSNESS - A gift given thru FAITH:

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
(MY NOTE: Thru faith Abraham was freely granted RIGHTEOUSNESS)

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(MY NOTE: NOT to him that works. But, RIGHTEOUSNESS is freely given to him that has faith in Christ)

Rom 5:
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
(MY NOTE: The gift of righteousness

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
(MY NOTE: RIGHTEOUSNESS is a FREE GIFT)

GRACE - A gift given freely & received thru FAITH:

Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
(MY NOTE: This verse proclaims GRACE is a FREE GIFT - TWICE!)

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(MY NOTE: Saving grace is a GIFT from God)

GIFTS are given, NOT, worked for/earned!

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before & what follows any single verse context.
^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^

So, ask: Who's writing? Paul, Rom 1:1

Written to whom? NT believer's in Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Rom 1:7

What are the circumstances? NT believers mixing righteousness via self participation in Mosaic law keeping vs righteousness via faith in Christ's sin atoning death, burial & resurrection

What’s the context BEFORE? God, faith, righteousness/unrighteousness, jew/gentile, justification, law.

What's the context after? Christ's, Righteousness imputed via Faith. Rom Chapter 4

We should never take one verse out of context & try to build a doctrine.

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

I'll begin the parsing here:
20 By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: No one will be justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Thru any self works)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is now establish without any deeds required via Mosaic law)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is established by the obedient faith "OF" Jesus Christ & is imputed to all them that believe in His sin atoning work)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(MY NOTE: Justified FREELY via God's grace, thru faith placed in Christ's sin redemptive work, we become justified = Judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God.)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(MY NOTE: Propitiation = reconciliation/atonement/appease/satisfy. Christ's righteousness is declared as sins propitiation. And is imputed onto believers via faith in his death, burial & resurrection)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(MY NOTE: This verse declares the righteousness of Jesus & proclaims Him as the justifier of those who: believe/have faith in Him > His sin payment & resurrection. Not those that follow/keep Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(MY NOTE: Here is a KEY verse! By what law? By the "LAW of FAITH")

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(MY NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(MY NOTE: He's God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(MY NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous, "BOTH the circumcision = JEW", "by/through "FAITH". "And the uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(MY NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant, "LAW of FAITH", that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)

All power, praise, glory & honor, belong to out great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ! AMEM & Amen...
 
Upvote 0

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,376
820
Califormia
✟133,557.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
It is not good to wantonly accuse people of being dishonest, so if you are going to accuse me of that, then you need to back it up. There is nothing dishonest about using Paul referencing Deuteronomy 30:11-16 in Romans 10:5-8 as the context for how we should understand Romans 10:9-10. In Deuteronomy 30:11-16, it is clearly speaking about God's law, so when Paul is referring to what is said in those verses as being the word of faith that we proclaim, then what grounds do you have for denying that he was referring to God's law? In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matter of God's law, so do you have faith in God to correctly divide between right and wrong through His law?

I have never claimed that salvation is the result of obeying God's law as if it is earned as a wage, but rather our salvation is from and sin is the transgression of God's law, so my claim is that living in obedience to God's law is intrinsically part of the concept of Jesus saving us from not living in obedience to it.
You dishonestly and wantonly do not accept the decision from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29. About 15 years later, Paul confirms that Gentile believers are not required to keep almost all of the Mosaic Law in Acts 21:24-25. We are under a New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Many things from the Old Covenant passed away concerning Gentile believers per Acts 15.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: BrotherJJ
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,022.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
You dishonestly and wantonly do not accept the decision from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29. About 15 years later, Paul confirms that Gentile believers are not required to keep almost all of the Mosaic Law in Acts 21:24-25. We are under a New Covenant (Luke 22:20). Many things from the Old Covenant passed away concerning Gentile believers per Acts 15.
That is a lie. I completely agree with the decision from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29 and Acts 21:24-25. I made the case for why I interpret it as being a non-exhaustive list and for why I do not accept interpretations of it being an exhaustive list. If your interpretation of those verses is false, then it does not speak against the fact that followers of God should follow the law that God has commanded in accordance with what Christ taught us to do by word and by example, but even if your interpretation is correct, then according to God we should reject the decision made in those verses, and followers of God should obey the law that God has commanded in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example, so either way it is false that Gentile believers are not required to keep almost all of the Mosaic Law. Under the New Covenant, we are still required to keep the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).
 
Upvote 0

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,376
820
Califormia
✟133,557.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
That is a lie. I completely agree with the decision from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29 and Acts 21:24-25. I made the case for why I interpret it as being a non-exhaustive list and for why I do not accept interpretations of it being an exhaustive list. If your interpretation of those verses is false, then it does not speak against the fact that followers of God should follow the law that God has commanded in accordance with what Christ taught us to do by word and by example, but even if your interpretation is correct, then according to God we should reject the decision made in those verses, and followers of God should obey the law that God has commanded in accordance with what Christ taught by word and by example, so either way it is false that Gentile believers are not required to keep almost all of the Mosaic Law. Under the New Covenant, we are still required to keep the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33).
No you do not agree with the decisions from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29 and Acts 21:24-25 - that is why you continue to post. The Mosaic Law was given strictly to Israel. The Apostles decided in Acts 15:23-29 that Gentile believers were not bound to the vast majority of the Mosaic Law. Take the rebuke in Acts 15:24 and move on.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: BrotherJJ
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,022.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
No you do not agree with the decisions from the Apostles in Acts 15:23-29 and Acts 21:24-25 - that is why you continue to post. The Mosaic Law was given strictly to Israel. The Apostles decided in Acts 15:23-29 that Gentile believers were not bound to the vast majority of the Mosaic Law. Take the rebuke in Acts 15:24 and move on.
While I agree with the decision of the Apostles, I disagree with your misunderstanding of their decision. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so I continue to post in order to stand for the truth and to defend myself against your false accusations. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel so that Israel would be equipped to be a light and a blessing to the nations by teaching it to the nations in accordance with the Gospel and the promise. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so Gentiles can look at what he taught and decide whether or not to follow hi, but Gentiles can't follow him by refusing to follow him. The Apostles did not rule that Gentiles should not follow the majority of what Christ taught, and even if they did, then we should follow Christ instead. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so you should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has said. The Bible should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mark Quayle
Upvote 0

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,376
820
Califormia
✟133,557.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
While I agree with the decision of the Apostles, I disagree with your misunderstanding of their decision. In Psalms 119:142, God's law is truth, so I continue to post in order to stand for the truth and to defend myself against your false accusations. The Mosaic Law was given to Israel so that Israel would be equipped to be a light and a blessing to the nations by teaching it to the nations in accordance with the Gospel and the promise. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example, so Gentiles can look at what he taught and decide whether or not to follow hi, but Gentiles can't follow him by refusing to follow him. The Apostles did not rule that Gentiles should not follow the majority of what Christ taught, and even if they did, then we should follow Christ instead. The bottom line is that we must obey God rather than man, so you should be quicker to disregard everything that any man has said than to disregard anything that God has said. The Bible should not be interpreted as speaking against obeying God.
If the Apostles intended that the Gentile believers keep the Mosaic law, the Jerusalem Decree would have been written far differently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrotherJJ
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,022.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
If the Apostles intended that the Gentile believers keep the Mosaic law, the Jerusalem Decree would have been written far differently.
There is nothing with how they worded it that is contrary to the intention of Gentile believers keeping the Mosaic Law. Again, you should not interpret their words as being contrary to their deliberations. Even if your interpretation were correct, then that would mean that Gentiles should reject what they said in favor of following Christ instead.
 
Upvote 0

John Mullally

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2020
2,376
820
Califormia
✟133,557.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
There is nothing with how they worded it that is contrary to the intention of Gentile believers keeping the Mosaic Law. Again, you should not interpret their words as being contrary to their deliberations. Even if your interpretation were correct, then that would mean that Gentiles should reject what they said in favor of following Christ instead.
The letter gave 4 relatively minor restraints to the Gentile believers and said if they kept them, they do well. That is not telling Gentile believers to keep the Mosaic Law - why didn't the Apostles command them to keep the Mosaic Law? Use brain!
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: BrotherJJ
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,022.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
The letter gave 4 relatively minor restraints to the Gentile believers and said if they kept them, they do well. That is not telling Gentile believers to keep the Mosaic Law - why didn't the Apostles command them to keep the Mosaic Law? Use brain!
While I agree that the letter instructed them to do four things, the issue is again whether that was intended to be an exhaustive list that limits what Gentiles should do to just those four things and nothing else or whether it was intended to be a non-exhaustive list in order to not make things more difficult for new believers, and the evidence is strongly against the former and in favor of the latter. The Mosaic Law was given to give us knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so telling Gentiles to repent from their sins in accordance with the Gospel is the same as telling them to obey the Mosaic Law, which the Apostles did do.

If you interpret authors of the Bible as saying something completely absurd, such as speaking against obeying what God has commanded in accordance with what Christ taught, then you should have the self-awareness to recognize that your interpretations is completely absurd and that you must be wrong to consider your interpretation to be correct, or if your interpretation is correct, then you must have been wrong to consider them to be servants of God, but you should not think that it is a good idea to promote your interpretation as being correct.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
NT Justification by Faith
Rom 3:
20 For no person will be justified [freed of guilt and declared righteous] in His sight by [trying to do] the works of the Law. For through the Law we become conscious of sin [and the recognition of sin directs us toward repentance, but provides no remedy for sin].

21 (A) But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law,

22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,

24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] [c]grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,

25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] [d]sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion]

26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].

27 Then what becomes of [our] boasting? It is excluded [entirely ruled out, banished]. On what principle? On [the principle of good] works? No, but on the principle of faith

Acts 10:
44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all those who were listening to the message [confirming God’s acceptance of Gentiles].
(MY NOTE: As Peter spoke, (Faith comes by hearing - Rom 10:17) those hearing believed)

45 All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles
(MY NOTE: Thru faith alone, (VIOD OF ANY ADHERENCE TO MOSAIC ANYTHING!) these gentiles are quickened (Eph 2:1, 2:5, Col 2:13) justified/receive a God given declaration of righteousness/placed in a right standing with the Father. Sealed with Christ's eternal life giving Holy Spirit (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Eph 4:30)

Acts 11:
15 When I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as He did on us at the beginning [at Pentecost].

16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’

17 So, if God gave Gentiles the same gift [equally] as He gave us after we accepted and believed and trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ [as Savior], who was I to interfere or stand in God’s way?”

18 When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified and praised God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance that leads to eternal life [that is, real life after earthly death].”

(MY NOTE: When these Jew heard how God granted to the Gentiles repentance that leads to eternal life (VIOD OF ANY ADHERENCE TO MOSAIC ANYTHING!). They SHUT-UP & praised God. If only these modern day (OBSOLETE) Mosaic law promoters would take notes from Acts 10 & 11 God breathed scripture)

JUSTIFICATION:

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: [ A-1,Noun,G1347, dikaiosis ] - Justification:

denotes the act of pronouncing righteous, justification, acquittal;" its precise meaning is determined by that of the verb dikaioo, "to justify". It is used twice in the Ep. to the Romans, and there alone in the NT, signifying the establishment of a person as just by acquittal from guilt.

In Romans 4:25 the phrase "for our justification," is, lit., "because of our justification" (parallel to the preceding clause "for our trespasses," i.e., because of trespasses committed), and means, not with a view to our "justification," but because all that was necessary on God's part for our "justification" had been effected in the death of Christ. On this account He was raised from the dead. The propitiation being perfect and complete, His resurrection was the confirmatory counterpart.

In Romans 5:18, "justification of life" means "justification which results in life"

Romans 5:21). That God "justifies" the believing sinner on the ground of Christ's death, involves His free gift of life.

KJV Dictionary Definition: justification

In theology, remission of sin and absolution from guilt and punishment; or an act of free grace by which God pardons the sinner and accepts him as righteous, on account of the atonement of Christ.

(MY NOTE: Vines bible dictionary definition of justification is ""acquittal from guilt of trespasses committed "" and if given based on Faith alone placed in Jesus sin atoning death. Making the believer perfect/sinless & in a right standing before the Father & is confirmed by His resurrection!

(MY NOTE: KJV Dictionary Definition of justification is ""remission of sin, guilt & sins levied punishment, full sin Pardon! Given by the grace of God & placed in right standing with the Father being declared Righteous by Faith place in Jesus sin atoning death.)
 
Upvote 0

safswan

Active Member
Nov 15, 2005
383
131
58
✟30,710.00
Faith
Christian
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(MY NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant, "LAW of FAITH", that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)
This makes no sense. If we insert your interpretation this is what you get:

31 Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".

Your interpretation sees faith being contrasted with faith.This was not Paul's intention.The law being contrasted with faith is the one Paul says gives the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Do you know which law this is?

Romans 7:
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
This makes no sense. If we insert your interpretation this is what you get:

31 Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".

Your interpretation sees faith being contrasted with faith.This was not Paul's intention.The law being contrasted with faith is the one Paul says gives the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Do you know which law this is?

Romans 7:
7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Romans 3:31 we establish the law parsed

Bible study tips by: Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator:

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before & what follows any single verse context.

Parsing Romans chapter 3:

So, ask: Who's writing? Paul, Written to whom? NT believer's in Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Rom 1:7

What are the circumstances? NT believers are mixing righteousness via self participation in Mosaic law keeping vs righteousness via faith placed in Christ's sin atoning death, burial & resurrection

What’s the context BEFORE? God, faith, righteousness/unrighteousness, jew/gentile, justification, law.

What's the context after? Christ's, Righteousness imputed via Faith > Romans Chapter 4

Taking one verse out of context often leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3; 1st 20 verses lay out: All the World Guilty of Sin. The next 11 verses speak to Justification by the Law of FAITH

I'll begin the parsing the ladder text here:
20 By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: No one will be justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Thru any self works)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is now establish without any deeds required via Mosaic law)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is established by the obedient faith "OF" Jesus Christ & is imputed to all them that believe in His sin atoning work)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(MY NOTE: Justified FREELY via God's grace, thru faith placed in Christ's sin redemptive work, one becomes justified = Judicially declared righteous [thru FAITH] by a sovereign God.)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(MY NOTE: Propitiation = reconciliation/atonement/appease/satisfy. Christ's righteousness sin atoning work is declared to be sins propitiation/atonement/appeasement. And His righteousness is imputed onto believers via FAITH in his death, burial & resurrection)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(MY NOTE: This verse declares the righteousness of Jesus & proclaims Him as the justifier of those who: Believe/have FAITH in Him > His sin payment & resurrection. Not those that follow/keep Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(MY NOTE: Here is a KEY verse! By what law? By the: "Law of FAITH")

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(MY NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds Mosaic law required).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(MY NOTE: He's God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(MY NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous, "BOTH the circumcision = JEW", "by/through "FAITH". "And the uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(MY NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. And reread vs 27, its the new covenant, "LAW of FAITH", that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

safswan

Active Member
Nov 15, 2005
383
131
58
✟30,710.00
Faith
Christian
Romans 3:31 we establish the law parsed

Bible study tips by: Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator:

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before & what follows any single verse context.

Parsing Romans chapter 3:

So, ask: Who's writing? Paul, Written to whom? NT believer's in Christ's sin payment & resurrection. Rom 1:7

What are the circumstances? NT believers are mixing righteousness via self participation in Mosaic law keeping vs righteousness via faith placed in Christ's sin atoning death, burial & resurrection

What’s the context BEFORE? God, faith, righteousness/unrighteousness, jew/gentile, justification, law.

What's the context after? Christ's, Righteousness imputed via Faith > Romans Chapter 4

Taking one verse out of context often leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 3; 1st 20 verses lay out: All the World Guilty of Sin. The next 11 verses speak to Justification by the Law of FAITH

I'll begin the parsing the ladder text here:
20 By the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
(MY NOTE: No one will be justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God. Thru any self works)

21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is now establish without any deeds required via Mosaic law)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(MY NOTE: The righteousness of God is established by the obedient faith "OF" Jesus Christ & is imputed to all them that believe in His sin atoning work)

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
(MY NOTE: Justified FREELY via God's grace, thru faith placed in Christ's sin redemptive work, one becomes justified = Judicially declared righteous [thru FAITH] by a sovereign God.)

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
(MY NOTE: Propitiation = reconciliation/atonement/appease/satisfy. Christ's righteousness sin atoning work is declared to be sins propitiation/atonement/appeasement. And His righteousness is imputed onto believers via FAITH in his death, burial & resurrection)

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(MY NOTE: This verse declares the righteousness of Jesus & proclaims Him as the justifier of those who: Believe/have FAITH in Him > His sin payment & resurrection. Not those that follow/keep Mosaic law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(MY NOTE: Here is a KEY verse! By what law? By the: "Law of FAITH")

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(MY NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds Mosaic law required).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(MY NOTE: He's God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(MY NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous, "BOTH the circumcision = JEW", "by/through "FAITH". "And the uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(MY NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. And reread vs 27, its the new covenant, "LAW of FAITH", that's being established, just "REREAD vs 27".)
Longer but it still makes no sense as all who are honest will see. It is still:

"If we insert your interpretation this is what you get:

31 Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".
Your interpretation sees faith being contrasted with faith.This was not Paul's intention.The law being contrasted with faith, is the one Paul says gives the knowledge of sin."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Longer but it still makes no sense as all who are honest will see. It is still:

"If we insert your interpretation this is what you get:

31 Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".
Your interpretation sees faith being contrasted with faith.This was not Paul's intention.The law being contrasted with faith, is the one Paul says gives the knowledge of sin."
Here is a shorter explanation:
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(MY NOTE: Man is justified = judicially declared righteous by a sovereign God > = by FAITH without the deeds Mosaic law required).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(MY NOTE: He's God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(MY NOTE: God justifies = Declared righteous, "BOTH the circumcision = JEW", "by/through "FAITH". "And the uncircumcision = GENTILES through/by "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(MY NOTE: Verses 28-29-30 reference > deeds of the Law/required under Mosaic covenant, Jews/the circumcision "by Faith". Now if you'll read verse 31 in context. And reread vs 27, its the new covenant, "LAW of FAITH", that the author is establishing)

I agree, if you insert your interpretation that's what you're left with. JJ
 
Upvote 0

safswan

Active Member
Nov 15, 2005
383
131
58
✟30,710.00
Faith
Christian
I agree, if you insert your interpretation that's what you're left with. JJ
It is not my interpretation, it is yours.You claim the, "law of faith", is that which is being established. Hence the word, "law", can be replaced by that term in the passage. It occurs twice in Romans 3:31,and refers to the same thing and it is that, to which faith is being contrasted.

The original reading:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Paul is asking, do we discard the law because of faith?
He answers, no and speaks of the same law and says it is established.

Your desperate attempt, to circumvent this simple understanding, leads you to claim the law being established is the, "law of faith". However if this is so, then the first mention of law in the passage, must also be the law of faith according to your interpretation.Also why would the law of faith be contrasted with faith? Again makes no sense.This is what you will get:

"Do we then make void the "law of faith" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "law of faith"."

It only takes basic comprehension to see that this makes no sense. First rule of bible study is to understand what you are reading before you can understand the context.
 
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It is not my interpretation, it is yours.You claim the, "law of faith", is that which is being established. Hence the word, "law", can be replaced by that term in the passage. It occurs twice in Romans 3:31,and refers to the same thing and it is that, to which faith is being contrasted.

The original reading:

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Paul is asking, do we discard the law because of faith?
He answers, no and speaks of the same law and says it is established.

Your desperate attempt, to circumvent this simple understanding, leads you to claim the law being established is the, "law of faith". However if this is so, then the first mention of law in the passage, must also be the law of faith according to your interpretation.Also why would the law of faith be contrasted with faith? Again makes no sense.This is what you will get:

"Do we then make void the "law of faith" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "law of faith"."

It only takes basic comprehension to see that this makes no sense. First rule of bible study is to understand what you are reading before you can understand the context.
Rom 3:31 (KJV) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1st: I never said; Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".

The above statement is yours. You wrote/misquoted me & scriptures author on this verse!

The verse say's: Do we then make void the law through faith? My belief is: The law stated here is OT Mosaic law.

I gave context several times. I try again:

Scripture Study Tips by Myles Coverdale, bible theologian/translator. He wrote the Coverdale Bible

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who is writing? Paul

Who’s it written to? Believers in Rome (Rom 1:7)

What are the circumstances? Chapter 3:1-20, All the World Guilty - Verses 21-31, Justification by FAITH

What’s the context BEFORE? Chapter 2:17-30 The circumcision/Jew is condemned by Mosaic law decrees

Rom 3:
Vs 1, cites Jew/circumcision > those under adherence to Mosaic law.

Vs 2, because to them " the Jew/circumcision/those under adherence to Mosaic law, were these law oracles of God committed.

Back to "context provided" before the ever so controversial Rom 3:31 verse

Vs 20, by deed/works demanded my Mosaic law No ONE will be justified before God. The law's purpose is to teach, expose & condemn sin

Vs 21, righteousness is accessed independently & completely apart from adherence to Mosaic law. Remember the 1st 20 verses context is: all the world guilty according to Mosaic law mandates.

Vs 22, righteousness is accessed through FAITH in Christ's sacrificial work whether Jew or Gentile

Vs 23, all are sinners

Vs 24, everyone is justified/declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God & is granted the "gift" of eternal life. By the redemptive the payment for our sin provided By Faith in Christ

Vs 25, Christ's sacrifice of atonement & reconciliation is received through FAITH

Vs 26, Jesus is the justifier of those who have FAITH in Him as Savior.

Vs 27, Is anyone justified by their good deeds/works required in Mosaic law? NO! Everyone is justified by FAITH > it's the Law that's being established repeatedly leading up to & ultimately in vs 31

Vs 28, Every individual is justified by FAITH! Void of any self-works of the Mosaic Law observance & is declared free of the guilt of sin & made acceptable to God thru FAITH

Vs 29, this by FAITH offer is to Jew or gentile

Vs 30, This by FAITH promise was made to Abraham centuries before the Mosaic law was cut. And NOW this post resurrection law of FAITH applies to Jew/circumcision or Gentile/uncircumcision.

Vs 31, Reread vs 27 for verse/chapter context.

Context recap:
Romans Chapter 2: The circumcision/Jew "under Mosaic law" is condemned by Mosaic law decrees

Romans Chapter 3: 1-20 All the World Guilty - Verses 21-31, "Justification by FAITH" (Rom 3:20) void of deeds required in Mosaic law (Rom 3:21).

FAITH is the law being established & continuing to be in Chapters 4, 5, 9, 10.

What's the context after?

Romans Chapter 4: Righteousness is imputed via FAITH

Romans Chapter 5: Grace/justification/righteousness/salvation are accessed via FAITH

Romans Chapter 9: Verses 30-31

Romans Chapter 10:
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

FAITH is the NT conduit/law to Grace/justification/righteousness/salvation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BrotherJJ

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2019
1,120
424
North America
✟166,813.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Furthermore, the OP cites Galatians

The epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against: The Pre-Cross Mosaic law doctrine of works.

The epistle is an aggressive defense of: The Post-Cross doctrine of the gospel of God's grace, FAITH & forgiveness, which results produce love.

The letters core message: Believers in Gods Son are justified = Judicially Declared Righteous by a sovereign creator God thru FAITH.

FAITH placed in the finished sin atoning redemptive work of Jesus the Christ. Not in our own good works or good deeds of OC Mosaic law keeping.

The law exposes sin, condemns & sentences the sinner to DEATH without mercy! Anyone claiming Mosaic law adherence is a vehicle to justification is contradicting these scripture.

Mans blessings come from God on the basis of God's grace & FAITH placed in His Sons sin atoning work.

It's the believers Holy Spirit filled FAITH that leads one to produce the fruits: Love, godly works & is the essence of brotherhood.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

safswan

Active Member
Nov 15, 2005
383
131
58
✟30,710.00
Faith
Christian
Rom 3:31 (KJV) Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1st: I never said; Do we then make void the "LAW of FAITH" through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the "LAW of FAITH".

The above statement is yours. You wrote/misquoted me & scriptures author on this verse!

The verse say's: Do we then make void the law through faith? My belief is: The law stated here is OT Mosaic law.
I never said, you said, what you number as 1st. I clearly said that, this is what your interpretation, of what the law that is established is, would produce.

This is because the law Paul is asking, if it is made void by faith, is the same law that he answers in the negative, and says it is established. You claim the first mention of law in the verse, is what you call the,"OT Mosaic law". However to prop up your false doctrine,you now have to claim the second mention is, the law of faith. This makes no sense.I will attempt to help you understand this one last time.

1.Faith is not being contrasted with faith.Law is being contrasted with faith.
2.The law being asked about, must be the same law answered about, at the second mention of law.
3.If you claim the second mention of law is,the "law of faith",the the first mention must be the same, as the second mention of law, is in response to the first mention.It is the same law that is being commented on by Paul.
4.If the first mention is,the,"OT Mosaic law",then the second must be the same for the reason given in 3. above.It is one(3.) or the other(4.) and neither will please you.(3.) makes no sense and (4.) destroys your doctrine.

As I said before,this is basic comprehension, and if one is not able to understand this, then they will not be able to put anything into context,they will only bring confusion.

Your misrepresentation of what I said, is a sign of the misrepresentation of the scriptures, that has taken place in your presentation.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0