Can i not wear a hat as a Christian

Diamond7 · Mar 17, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
I just bought a hat and now dont know if i can wear it. What do you guys think?

This has to do with worship and the angels when they go to the alter to pray. Women have long hair and a long dress and they cover themselves for the sake of the angels. It is actually very beautiful.

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

Diamond7 said:
This has to do with worship and the angels when they go to the alter to pray. Women have long hair and a long dress and they cover themselves for the sake of the angels. It is actually very beautiful.

Women don't always have long hair or long dresses.
And why do we need to cover ourselves for the sake of the angels? How do angels benefit if women are wearing hats?

Diamond7 · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
And why do we need to cover ourselves for the sake of the angels?

1 Corinthians 11:10

Therefore the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, for the sake of the angels

Generally it is understood to mean that women should dress modestly and maintain a sense of decorum in public worship settings, out of respect for God and the angels who may be present.

1 Peter 3:3-4, it says, "Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God." Here, the emphasis is on the inner beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, rather than external adornment.

1 Timothy 2:9-10, it says, "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness." In this passage, the emphasis is on modest and discreet clothing, rather than expensive or flashy garments.

John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist movement, expressed regret about not having spoken more forcefully about the need for modesty in dress and appearance for women.

Religion produces both industry and frugality, and these produce riches. But as riches increase, so will pride, anger, and love of the world.. People become a victim of their own success and this can all be avoided by being modest and humble before God.

Ambition needs to be balanced with modesty and humility so pride and the love of the world do not creep in.

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

Diamond7 said:
1 Corinthians 11:10
Therefore the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head, for the sake of the angels

Generally it is understood to mean that women should dress modestly and maintain a sense of decorum in public worship settings, out of respect for God and the angels who may be present.

?? But why, though?
Did Abraham, Jacob, Samson's mother, Mary etc etc wear hats? We are not told, and I can't believe, that Angels appeared to them because they were wearing hats - or not.

Diamond7 said:
1 Peter 3:3-4, it says, "Your adornment must not be merely external—braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God." Here, the emphasis is on the inner beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, rather than external adornment.

We are told that we may entertain angels without realising it - so I don't see how they are going to be kept away because we do not have a hat on.

Diamond7 said:
1 Timothy 2:9-10, it says, "Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments, but rather by means of good works, as is proper for women making a claim to godliness." In this passage, the emphasis is on modest and discreet clothing, rather than expensive or flashy garments.

Yes, but that doesn't have anything to do with angels - it doesn't even mention them.

Diamond7 said:
John Wesley, the founder of the Methodist movement, expressed regret about not having spoken more forcefully about the need for modesty in dress and appearance for women.

Maybe he did.
But what counts as "modest" varies from society to society and culture to culture. In some places people seem to wear little more than grass skirts, and the women don't always even cover up their boobs. Are you saying they would not be able to be Christians?

Diamond7 said:
Religion produces both industry and frugality, and these produce riches. But as riches increase, so will pride, anger, and love of the world..

It might do for some.
But some make lots of money and give most of it away - it is the rich Christians who finance other Christian enterprises and projects.

Diamond7 said:
Ambition needs to be balanced with modesty and humility so pride and the love of the world do not creep in.

No doubt - but someone can wear a hat in church and still be proud, ambitious and hold onto wealth.

biblelesson · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
Women don't always have long hair or long dresses.
And why do we need to cover ourselves for the sake of the angels? How do angels benefit if women are wearing hats?

The covering for a woman is not long hair or long dresses. It’s to cover your head - That is with a scarf or hat during prayer or worship - a veil. The reason has to do with during prayer, the woman has to have power on her head because of the angles, and without the covering she presents herself in shame, she dishonors her head, 1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV.

The same goes for a man, if his head is covered during prayer, he dishonest his head, 1 Corinthians 11:4 KJV.

For the woman, we know the Bible is not talking about long hear or long dresses because the scripture says if it’s a shame for a woman to be shorn (shaven head), then praying uncovered is like being being shaven, 1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV.

To explain what this means we have to look at what the Bible is talking about and why the covering is needed.

A man is the image and glory of God, 1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV, and Christ is the head of man, 1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV, therefore a man (God’s creation) does not require a head covering - God considering him to be the head, and he represents God being the image and Glory of God. If a man wore a head covering during prayer, he would bring shame to himself considering he is the head. The angles would be a witness to that shame.

For a woman - the head of every woman is the man, 1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV. A woman is not considered the head (in comparison to God’s creation of man), she was made for man, 1 Corinthians 11:9 KJV. So the man is the glory of God, but the woman is the glory of man, 1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV.

So during prayer, a man is protected by Christ because Christ is his head. But because the man is the woman’s head, she is not protected by Christ during prayer; so she needs power. Christ dispatches His angles to protect the woman, but if she brings shame to head by not having a covering, she opens herself up to attack from the other angles.

Why is this? Because when we pray, we are touching the spiritual plane. Just as Jesus has ascended far above principalities and power, there are those powers that still exist in the spiritual realm. The covering for a women protects her from those angels that don’t belong to Christ. So because the woman does not have automatic protection like the man, Jesus dispatches his angels and they fight for the woman as long as she has not brought shame to herself without a covering - a veil, that is a scarf or hat. So she needs power on her head because of the angles.

biblelesson · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
The covering for a woman is not long hair or long dresses. It’s to cover your head - That is with a scarf or hat during prayer or worship - a veil. The reason has to do with during prayer, the woman has to have power on her head because of the angles, and without the covering she presents herself in shame, she dishonors her head, 1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV.

The same goes for a man, if his head is covered during prayer, he dishonest his head, 1 Corinthians 11:4 KJV.

For the woman, we know the Bible is not talking about long hear or long dresses because the scripture says if it’s a shame for a woman to be shorn (shaven head), then praying uncovered is like being being shaven, 1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV.

To explain what this means we have to look at what the Bible is talking about and why the covering is needed.

A man is the image and glory of God, 1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV, and Christ is the head of man, 1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV, therefore a man (God’s creation) does not require a head covering - God considering him to be the head, and he represents God being the image and Glory of God. If a man wore a head covering during prayer, he would bring shame to himself considering he is the head. The angles would be a witness to that shame.

For a woman - the head of every woman is the man, 1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV. A woman is not considered the head (in comparison to God’s creation of man), she was made for man, 1 Corinthians 11:9 KJV. So the man is the glory of God, but the woman is the glory of man, 1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV.

So during prayer, a man is protected by Christ because Christ is his head. But because the man is the woman’s head, she is not protected by Christ during prayer; so she needs power. Christ dispatches His angles to protect the woman, but if she brings shame to head by not having a covering, she opens herself up to attack from the other angles.

Why is this? Because when we pray, we are touching the spiritual plane. Just as Jesus has ascended far above principalities and power, there are those powers that still exist in the spiritual realm. The covering for a women protects her from those angels that don’t belong to Christ. So because the woman does not have automatic protection like the man, Jesus dispatches his angels and they fight for the woman as long as she has not brought shame to herself without a covering - a veil, that is a scarf or hat. So she needs power on her head because of the angles.

Another important reason that has to do with the angles is the assembly of angels during worship. When we pray on earth, the angles assemble with us in prayer in heaven. We sit in heavenly places, Ephesians 2:6 KJV. So we are all together, Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV.

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
The covering for a woman is not long hair or long dresses. It’s to cover your head - That is with a scarf or hat during prayer or worship - a veil. The reason has to do with during prayer, the woman has to have power on her head because of the angles,

WHY, because of the angels? (Hint, angles are things that triangles have.)

biblelesson said:
Why is this? Because when we pray, we are touching the spiritual plane. Just as Jesus has ascended far above principalities and power, there are those powers that still exist in the spiritual realm. The covering for a women protects her from those angels that don’t belong to Christ. So because the woman does not have automatic protection like the man, Jesus dispatches his angels and they fight for the woman as long as she has not brought shame to herself without a covering - a veil, that is a scarf or hat. So she needs power on her head because of the angles.

I'm sorry, but I neither understand, nor agree with, that.
We are told to pray at all times and in all circumstances, 1 Thessalonians 5:16-18. Are you saying that I can't pray in bed, in the bath, in a hospital bed etc unless I am wearing a scarf/veil/hat?
Jesus Christ lay down his life for us so that we could be reconciled to God, and nothing - not even demons - can separate us from God's love. Are you saying that we can only come into God's presence and have his protection if we have a square of material on our heads? That a head covering had the power to keep demons away? The name of JESUS is powerful enough to keep away demons, and we are covered, and protected, by his blood. Paul tells us to put on the armour of God, Ephesians 6. Whatever you understand the helmet of salvation to be, it is not a cotton headscarf.

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
Another important reason that has to do with the angles is the assembly of angels during worship. When we pray on earth, the angles assemble with us in prayer in heaven. We sit in heavenly places, Ephesians 2:6 KJV. So we are all together, Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV.

Jesus intercedes for us, and the Spirit prays in groans that words cannot express.
We are told to pray as well, of course, but we are not told that any of those prayers will be less effective with the absence of a headscarf, or the presence of a baseball cap.

biblelesson · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
Jesus intercedes for us, and the Spirit prays in groans that words cannot express.
We are told to pray as well, of course, but we are not told that any of those prayers will be less effective with the absence of a headscarf, or the presence of a baseball cap.

Please read scripture - all of 1 Corinthians 11 KJV. Stop throwing out one scriptures just to contradict another scripture. You immediately oppose God’s word even before you understand it, and try to justify your position with another scripture!

If you don’t believe one scripture, how do you get to use another scripture to try and make a point? There is a name for that!

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
Please read scripture - all of 1 Corinthians 11 KJV. Stop throwing out one scriptures just to contradict another scripture. You immediately oppose God’s word even before you understand it, and try to justify your position with another scripture!

If you don’t believe one scripture, how do you get to use another scripture to try and make a point? There is a name for that!

I do believe Scripture - I don't agree with your interpretation of it.

It's interesting that I said "I neither understand nor agree with that," and rather than take the time to explain, you attack me and claim I am opposing God's word.
Very telling

biblelesson · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
I do believe Scripture - I don't agree with your interpretation of it.

It's interesting that I said "I neither understand nor agree with that," and rather than take the time to explain, you attack me and claim I am opposing God's word.
Very telling

I truly apologize if I was wrong. So I will hear your understanding of the scriptures.

Outside of how I explained the scriptures, can you please provide your explanation of each scripture below in case I misunderstood.

1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:4 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:9 KJV

Ephesians 2:6 KJV

Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV

Strong in Him · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
I truly apologize if I was wrong. So I will hear your understanding of the scriptures.

Outside of how I explained the scriptures, can you please provide your explanation of each scripture below in case I misunderstood.

1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:4 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:9 KJV

Ephesians 2:6 KJV

Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV

No problem.
But I'll answer your post tomorrow, if that's ok. It's quite late here in the UK.

God bless.

biblelesson · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
No problem.
But I'll answer your post tomorrow, if that's ok. It's quite late here in the UK.
God bless.

No problem! Enjoy your evening!

Presbyterian Continuist · Mar 17, 2023

biblelesson said:
I truly apologize if I was wrong. So I will hear your understanding of the scriptures.

Outside of how I explained the scriptures, can you please provide your explanation of each scripture below in case I misunderstood.

1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:4 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV.

1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:3 KJV

1 Corinthians 11:9 KJV

Ephesians 2:6 KJV

Hebrews 12:22-23 KJV

What we have to consider is the overall context of 1 Corinthians. It was written to the Corinthian church, therefore it involves how people conduct themselves in church and not necessarily how they conduct themselves away from church meetings. Of course, personal Christian conduct is dealt with in many other parts of the New Testament, so just because I am saying that Paul's teaching is for the church as a whole and not necessarily for general personal conduct, I am not discounting how it is advisable to apply some of Paul's teaching to our personal lives as we wish.

So, the wearing of hats is for when people are in church. He advocates men being bareheaded, while women have their heads covered while they are praying or conducting other spiritual activities during the church service. But outside of the church meetings, men can quite freely wear a hat, and a woman can walk around without a head covering.

It's not rocket science actually, but we do have some ultra "spiritual" folk who treat it as it is. Someone described it as "pettyfogging".

Br4nd0n · Mar 17, 2023

Strong in Him said:
Women don't always have long hair or long dresses.
And why do we need to cover ourselves for the sake of the angels? How do angels benefit if women are wearing hats?

At the time, the hair was believed to be a part of the reproductive system, so if you see the evidence and agree, it was probly for the sake of the angels because of the angelic interpretation of genesis 6. You can find the research in reply #58 of this thread

Strong in Him · Mar 18, 2023

Br4nd0n said:
At the time, the hair was believed to be a part of the reproductive system, so if you see the evidence and agree, it was probly for the sake of the angels because of the angelic interpretation of genesis 6. You can find the research in reply #58 of this thread

At the time - maybe.
Nowadays - no.

biblelesson · Mar 18, 2023

Watchman1 said:
. Of course, personal Christian conduct is dealt with in many other parts of the New Testament, so just because I am saying that Paul's teaching is for the church as a whole and not necessarily for general personal conduct, I am not discounting how it is advisable to apply some of Paul's teaching to our personal lives as we wish.

Not sure what you are saying.

Presbyterian Continuist · Mar 18, 2023

biblelesson said:
Not sure what you are saying.

What I mean is that 1 Corinthians was written to the church in general, not the members in particular.

biblelesson · Mar 19, 2023

Watchman1 said:
What I mean is that 1 Corinthians was written to the church in general, not the members in particular.

The members are the church! The churches that were being established were bringing in new converts. Paul’s epistles were to the people who were new Christians, and those who would come after up to today. The light of the seven golden candlestick never goes out - the gospel preached from the seven churches (seven golden candlesticks) in Asia Minor, although no longer exist, is still preached throughout the world for all time converting Christians till Christ returns.

Presbyterian Continuist · Mar 19, 2023

biblelesson said:
The members are the church! The churches that were being established were bringing in new converts. Paul’s epistles were to the people who were new Christians, and those who would come after up to today. The light of the seven golden candlestick never goes out - the gospel preached from the seven churches (seven golden candlesticks) in Asia Minor, although no longer exist, is still preached throughout the world for all time converting Christians till Christ returns.

So you believe that everyone who wears a hat is sinning because they are disobeying a command from Paul. Does this mean that if I am driving along the motorway wearing my baseball cap, and decide I want to pray, I have to take my hat off first?

Can i not wear a hat as a Christian

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