Pre-tribulation Rapture Believers Safe House

FredVB

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I know that there is distinction between a rapture of believers to be with the Lord, and the coming of Christ to this world again when there is judgment in this world coming on the unrepentant in the world. Christ will set up his rule on earth, and the work on restoration of this world toward how it should be starts then in this world. I am not feeling sure anymore about when rapture of believers will happen, it would still definitely come before God's judgment on the unrepentant in this world is coming. But things will still grow much more difficult than they are while we are all here, and we do not live right, and there will be the great collapse coming.
 
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dfw69

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I know that there is distinction between a rapture of believers to be with the Lord, and the coming of Christ to this world again when there is judgment in this world coming on the unrepentant in the world. Christ will set up his rule on earth, and the work on restoration of this world toward how it should be starts then in this world. I am not feeling sure anymore about when rapture of believers will happen, it would still definitely come before God's judgment on the unrepentant in this world is coming. But things will still grow much more difficult than they are while we are all here, and we do not live right, and there will be the great collapse coming.
I think it will happen in 2029 which is 40 jubilees from the first

But I don’t believe he is coming to perform the rapture to save from ww3 or pandemics or to save from a financial collapse or some catastrophic event . Those have happened throughout history and it didn’t unseat him from his heavenly throne.

No ..he is coming to perform the promises he made when he sat with his disciples at dinner before his death

Personally I believe he is gathering his children to be the first citizens of new Jerusalem which is temporary located in heaven

Also I have a deep strong feeling he is going to use us to combat the lies and deceptions of the false messianic age to come
 
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FredVB

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I think it will happen in 2029 which is 40 jubilees from the first

But I don’t believe he is coming to perform the rapture to save from ww3 or pandemics or to save from a financial collapse or some catastrophic event . Those have happened throughout history and it didn’t unseat him from his heavenly throne.

No ..he is coming to perform the promises he made when he sat with his disciples at dinner before his death

Personally I believe he is gathering his children to be the first citizens of new Jerusalem which is temporary located in heaven

Also I have a deep strong feeling he is going to use us to combat the lies and deceptions of the false messianic age to come

Well it would seem to me it would involve uncertain interpretations to conclude a year for when real believers, who are redeemed, would be caught up to be with the Lord. But that is a good point to say it would not be to save them from war, financial collapse, pestilence or pandemics, these things and worse have happened where believers were who did not escape or be delivered from those. Believers caught up will be for them to be with the Lord and to be delivered from God's judgment in this world rightly on the unrepentant with their wickedness and destructiveness.

We should speak up for what is right to do. For that we need to know what those things are.
 
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dfw69

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Well it would seem to me it would involve uncertain interpretations to conclude a year for when real believers, who are redeemed, would be caught up to be with the Lord.
Yes


But that is a good point to say it would not be to save them from war, financial collapse, pestilence or pandemics, these things and worse have happened where believers were who did not escape or be delivered from those.
Yes


Believers caught up will be for them to be with the Lord and to be delivered from God's judgment in this world rightly on the unrepentant with their wickedness and destructiveness.

Agree


We should speak up for what is right to do. For that we need to know what those things are.
Shine the light and freely give what we receive
 
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FredVB

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Mystery Babylon ? Doesn’t exist yet to fall…Who do u think she is ?

Let me ask, do you see that where we are, in our civilization, has wickedness, materialism, selfishness, exploitation, and destructiveness? I see it. See Revelation 18. See, God says God's people should come out from there? Why? God's people do not belong there. And it will fall, and God is not going to stop it. And the merchants left all over the world will mourn. The city of Babylon is not remaining now, the name in Mystery Babylon is symbolic. Do you ask still what I understand Mystery Babylon to be?
 
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Timtofly

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In Revelation 13 we see all starting new coming out of humanity. The third woe is this "masterpiece" of Satan after he and his angels were cast out of heaven.

I don't see how it can even start prior to that point. It will be way worse than current human ideology. If you think times are bad now, wait until the time of the abomination of desolation. The AoD will be the "best" state of affairs in Satan's Babylonian empire.
 
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dfw69

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In Revelation 13 we see all starting new coming out of humanity. The third woe is this "masterpiece" of Satan after he and his angels were cast out of heaven.

I don't see how it can even start prior to that point. It will be way worse than current human ideology. If you think times are bad now, wait until the time of the abomination of desolation. The AoD will be the "best" state of affairs in Satan's Babylonian empire.
Not in our lifetime
 
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dfw69

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Let me ask, do you see that where we are, in our civilization, has wickedness, materialism, selfishness, exploitation, and destructiveness? I see it. See Revelation 18. See, God says God's people should come out from there? Why? God's people do not belong there. And it will fall, and God is not going to stop it. And the merchants left all over the world will mourn. The city of Babylon is not remaining now, the name in Mystery Babylon is symbolic. Do you ask still what I understand Mystery Babylon to be?
It’s not symbolism it’s an actual city yet to be built in the future zech 5 says wickedness comes out of the land on shinar Babylon will be destroyed by god at the 7 vail
 
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dfw69

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Not sure God grants personal wishes.
Lol he doesn’t … it’s not my wish …

A falling away from Jesus and his teachings is coming which will bring great tribulations upon every tongue kingdom tribe and nation by mystery Babylon

It’s a false messianic age that will persecute those that the Holy Spirit will impart

Then the end will come
 
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Timtofly

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Lol he doesn’t … it’s not my wish …

A falling away from Jesus and his teachings is coming which will bring great tribulations upon every tongue kingdom tribe and nation by mystery Babylon

It’s a false messianic age that will persecute those that the Holy Spirit will impart

Then the end will come
I would call that the 42 months of Satan's Abomination of Desolation. You are free to call it whatever you think fits Scripture.

Pretty sure people will be chopping their heads of to avoid the mark of the beast.

That will be the alter call.
 
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dfw69

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I would call that the 42 months of Satan's Abomination of Desolation. You are free to call it whatever you think fits Scripture.

Pretty sure people will be chopping their heads of to avoid the mark of the beast.

That will be the alter call.
The 42 month AOD is the great tribulation upon Israel and Jesus testifying of this in Matt 24:15 as a sign just before he return

But the is another great tribulation of martyrs of the nations that take place during the false messianic age and Jesus mentions that also in Matt 24 with the signs of false messiahs and false prophets and persecution that will arise in that age to come

So you have great tribulation for the world
And great tribulation for the land of Israel

Jesus returns after the great tribulation of the land of Israel
 
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FredVB

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It’s not symbolism it’s an actual city yet to be built in the future zech 5 says wickedness comes out of the land on shinar Babylon will be destroyed by god at the 7 vail

We all like our understanding of what prophecies mean, I don't think there are any who are exceptions to that. But sometimes for some there can be rethinking that leads to some different thing thought than what they were always taught. I changed with that, so I think that can be the case for some others too. I have been told it was one city, elsewhere told it is another city. I never heard it was a city never built. But if there is insistence that Mystery Babylon must be literal Babylon it would have to use that understanding. I also heard that it has to be one certain other religion, or one certain other church. All these interpretations have the problem of being limited to understanding with interpretation without enough biblical support for those. And insisting something in the book of Revelation must be literal? If it is about Babylon itself that is not the wisest approach as everyone understood Babylon itself is no more. And nothing in scriptures says Babylon will be rebuilt. So, Mystery Babylon is referring to something else. Enough corresponds to activities of any city. But must it be one singular city? As a symbolic representation nothing tells us it must be one particular city, as one certain one or another. Mystery Babylon is significant enough that ALL merchants surviving will mourn at its fall, which it is shown it will happen. So it is much more significant than any one city collapsing, that all merchants left in all the world will mourn. Reading Revelation 18 we can see that this Mystery Babylon is characterized as being with wickedness, selfishness, materialism, exploitation without limiting it, and destructiveness that God really hates (Revelation 11:18). All populated cities are characterized with these things in their history. Evidence is already around for those who will look that collapse of all populated cities of this civilization is ahead, on all seven continents. And enough in the Bible shows that believers, God's people, do not even belong there with all that.
 
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Matthew 25:1-13 is a parable reflecting His separation of His church at the "rapture"

This separation will be between believers and those who only profess to be .... He knows the difference

This passage of scripture should be read in conjunction with Revelation 3:10 and 3:15-19

He tells the believers who keep the truth that He will keep them from His trial and judgment of an unbelieving earth .... the door is open for these to come in

Then He is warning those who profess only that they will be left out [these will not be included in His "harpazo" action] and that they must repent during the coming tribulation

Notice that the door is shut [which is currently open to believers], and those who profess only will be kept from entering

He will still offer His salvation during the tribulation period, but He will then be on the other side of the door ..... "knocking"
I would say it is not just those Christians who outwardly professed only but it would also apply to even Christians who believed but justified a sin and still be saved type belief in some way (Which in my opinion is a good majority in Christianity). I believe that these believers who are left behind from the “Caught Up Together” event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) are left behind because they did not have oil in their lamps. Meaning, they did not have the anointing of the Holy Spirit in living a holy life after they were saved by God’s grace. 1 John 2:27 talks about how certain believers John was talking to did not need any man to teach them because they had the Anointing (the Spirit) to understand all things.

Remember, Jesus said, “….when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” (Luke 18:8).
Meaning, when Jesus comes for His church (in the 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 event), most at that time will not have faith on the Earth.
In other words, they claim to believe God and His Word, but they do not accept everything in the Bible as it is plainly written.
What do I mean by that?
Well, you have today “Perpetual Works ALONE Salvationists” who reject Ephesians 2:8-9 in that we are initially saved by God’s grace through faith without works (A belief alone in Jesus and the gospel message for salvation).
Then you have another larger group who reject James 2:24 when he says that we are saved by works and not by faith alone (Which would be in the Sanctification Process of the believer AFTER they are saved by God’s grace). They are “Perpetual Belief ALONE Salvationists.” They do not understand that 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit. They do not fully understand Scripture when it says, many are called, but FEW are chosen. Also see Galatians 6:8-9, and Romans 8:13. To put it to you another way, without holiness no man shall see the Lord. However, most today preach the exact opposite of Hebrews 12:14. They do not believe Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, and Matthew 12:37, etcetera.

There are two aspects of salvation many Christians today do not understand in their Bible.

#1. Believers are initially and foundationally saved by God’s grace through faith without works (Ephesians 2:8-9)​
(This is Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism).​
#2. Believers must then continue with God and apply the secondary aspect of salvation over the course of their whole lives (Which is the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life - 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Galatians 6:8-9, Romans 8:13)​
(This is Temporal Works/Holiness Salvationism - that is simply a part of our continued faith or instructions from God).​

Understanding this and applying such a truth to our life properly according to His Word will ensure we will be Caught Up Together to meet Jesus in the clouds. Remember, only eight people entered the Ark, and just as it was in the day of Noah, so shall it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Granted, I think it will be more than 8 people, but the point here is that it will be few and not many. So the world may not even be aware of the disappearance of a small number of believers. Those who are left behind will have a hard time, but they will not be appointed unto wrath and they will have a second chance in the gathering of the Elect by angels in the Middle of the Tribulation.

Side Note:

Another way of course to miss out on the Pre-Trib Rapture is to not believe in it. Some of course who believe the Rapture will happen later (Mid-Trib or Post Trib) think they will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture even if they do not believe in it. But we know in Hebrews 11 that without faith it is impossible to please God. Why would God take us up if we do not believe? It makes no sense.
 
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dfw69

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I have been told it was one city, elsewhere told it is another city. I never heard it was a city never built.
The scriptures in Revelation suggest it is an actual city

Her name is Babylon … she does not exist yet … but she will be rebuilt

Dakes Bible notes Babylon rebuilt in Zech 5:5-11

She is to be destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed by God Isaiah 13:19 and Rev 18:21 describes that destruction

Babylon was never destroyed by God in the past like Sodom and Gomorrah was but the future city of Babylon will be destroyed though she herself will boast never to suffer tribulation Rev 18:7


But if there is insistence that Mystery Babylon must be literal Babylon it would have to use that understanding.
The woman described in Rev 17 named Mystery Babylon the Great the Mother of harlots and abominations of the earth has been around since the beginning of kingdoms but will have a future home for itself in the land of shinar



I also heard that it has to be one certain other religion, or one certain other church. All these interpretations have the problem of being limited to understanding with interpretation without enough biblical support for those.
That’s what makes her a mystery but she will eventually expose herself in the future when Babylon is rebuilt

And insisting something in the book of Revelation must be literal? If it is about Babylon itself that is not the wisest approach as everyone understood Babylon itself is no more.
Rev 17:8 speaks of a beast that once existed but is no more in existence but will return from the abyss to exist once again

So with that in mind it’s not impossible for Babylon to exist again….


And nothing in scriptures says Babylon will be rebuilt.
Zech 5:5-11

So, Mystery Babylon is referring to something else.
She has been riding the beast with 7 heads and will continue to ride into the future when the 10 horns appear

She commits adultery with the kings of the earth and intoxicated the inhabitants of the earth with the wine from her adulteries causing the deaths of saints


Enough corresponds to activities of any city. But must it be one singular city?
Yes..She will become the great city of Babylon in the land of Shinar

As a symbolic representation nothing tells us it must be one particular city, as one certain one or another.
Don’t symbolize because then you run into false prophecies


Mystery Babylon is significant enough that ALL merchants surviving will mourn at its fall, which it is shown it will happen.
Yes when Babylon is rebuilt she will become a great city and her foretold destruction will cause the merchants to mourn

So it is much more significant than any one city collapsing, that all merchants left in all the world will mourn.
Remember this is a future prophecy…Babylon doesn’t exist yet so her future destruction is still far off away

Her sins as a great city are yet to be manifested and recorded …


Reading Revelation 18 we can see that this Mystery Babylon is characterized as being with wickedness, selfishness, materialism, exploitation without limiting it, and destructiveness that God really hates (Revelation 11:18).

Yes
All populated cities are characterized with these things in their history.
They are just harlots … the mother is yet to show herself …
Evidence is already around for those who will look that collapse of all populated cities of this civilization is ahead, on all seven continents. And enough in the Bible shows that believers, God's people, do not even belong there with all that.
Fred a terrible time is coming. A time of darkness comes like never before seeking to extinguish the light that is found in Christ teachings within the good news.

Mystery Babylon will play a major role in that darkness Rev 17:6

This is a future prophecy so don’t bother looking for an imposter. Her name is Babylon for a reason
 
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Hi all , new person here. I believe in pre-tribulation rapture and I believe this world is in end-game now. So .... Anyway, I started to have " rapture anxiety " , cause I don't know if I will be taken or not. To be honest, both options are " kinda bad " from my point of view. I am soo tired of this planet and I really want to leave and go Home, but if I was chosen , some people will be taken away from me .... I know this post is huge mess, but I just needed safe space to write it. Btw. also - I think Rapture is this year or in early 2024. I don't see us being here in 2025 considering in which state planet is ...
 
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dfw69

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Hi all , new person here.
Hello
I believe in pre-tribulation rapture and I believe this world is in end-game now.
Me too kinda .. I mean I believe a new age is coming and it’s full of deceptions like never before seen to sway the masses but that’s another subject

So .... Anyway, I started to have " rapture anxiety " , cause I don't know if I will be taken or not.
Are you a child of God and do you have faith in Jesus? If so then He’s coming for you

Let me ask you a question ..were the Jews living in goshem afraid of not being taken out of Egypt? And were their concerns relieved afterwards?


To be honest, both options are " kinda bad " from my point of view. I am soo tired of this planet and I really want to leave and go Home, but if I was chosen , some people will be taken away from me ....
You are not chosen you either have obtained or not obtained the promises through Christ

I know this post is huge mess, but I just needed safe space to write it.
:)

Btw. also - I think Rapture is this year or in early 2024. I don't see us being here in 2025 considering in which state planet is ...
I think it will be before 2030
 
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