What is grace?

Clare73 said:

Yes, flesh is born of flesh, and the new birth of God's divine eternal life within our immortal spirits (it first being given to Adam) is of God, the Holy Spirit, it being his own divine life.

Where did Jesus say anything about
the body of Christ, or

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the one olive tree of God's people going all the way back to Abraham; i.e., the church (ek-klesia, called-out assembly, Ac 7:38) being the bride of Christ (Eph 5:30-32), or
sharing in Christ's own eternal inheritance (Ro 8:17), etc.?

Jesus was born, lived, preached and died under the Old Covenant. He did not give the full New Covenant revelation because so much of it depended on the cross at the end of his life. It is the apostles who completed the New Covenant revelation, and Jesus' teachings are to be understood in the light of that completed NT revelation.

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Douglas Brian McIntire said:

Are you like the MAJORIETY of Christians today who believe they know more that the Writers of the New Testament?

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I note that you did not address what I presented above.

Non-responsive.

Chaleb said:

Only Christ "knows" better then Paul.
However Paul knows "better" then anyone else.
There is a reason that Paul wrote most of the NT Epistles.., as i was explaining to you, in the previous post

So, if and when you want to learn Pauline Theology, you have to listen to someone who knows it, and teaches it.

You are welcome to read every post ive posted since i came here on 3-11, including my Thread, as everything i teach is "Pauline Theology", as is everything i will continue to teach.

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Jesus, His life, lessons instructions and everything else is the ONLY SORCE of Wisdom and none of the Apostles or writers of the New Testament taught anything different from what Jesus taught because that is what they were commanded to to teach including Paul. Oh, they all may have used different words but only to support the EXACT truths Jesus taught, precept by precept and principle by principle and nothing different than the Messiah in the flesh, taught (Unless note like Paul noted).

Douglas Brian McIntire said:

Pauline bologna is a perception from lying men who give a false testimony lifting Paul up and not lifting up Jesus Christ.

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"Pauline Bondage" is a figment of your pipe dream, Douglas.

Let me explain.

Paul said "follow me, as i follow Christ"........so, that is not "Pauline Bondage", that is New Testament reality for anyone who wants to learn what you must learn regarding Church Doctrine., regarding the "time of the Gentiles".... as this comes from Paul.

Know Paul = Know the NT, as the Holy Spirit is the Revealer but Paul is our Teacher.

Remember now....Jesus is Lord, and Jesus is my Lord, but Paul was sent by Jesus to bring to the Body of Christ what we have to learn as doctrine and as the method regarding rightly dividing the NT.

Peter said that Paul's epistles are scripture, and you would refer to Peter's statement as "pauline bondage".
So, i dont have any "bondage", or did Peter, but you seem to have "bondage" to your opinions, Douglas.

Now, if you have a question about the NT, or about Paul's epistles, then im happy to discuss it with you, or anyone.

Douglas Brian McIntire said:

Jesus, His life, lessons instructions and everything else is the ONLY SORCE of Wisdom

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Here is wisdom.

"Paul is a chosen vessel unto me".. said Jesus....... Paul is the "apostle to the gentiles'.... "you are in the time of the Gentiles, Douglas", and Paul wrote the Church Doctrine and most of the NT Epistles.

Paul is the apostle who told you to "study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not be ashamed, rightly DIVIDING the word of Truth".

Paul wrote that verse.. and its found in 2 Timothy, as TIMOTHY was doing this...>"follow me, as i follow Christ" Paul told him, and me, and you.

Understand yet?

Douglas, the "word of Truth" is the Bible, and specifically the NT New Covenant.. and so, as Paul wrote so much of the NT you have to study Paul's epistle to "rightly divide the word".

People who dont, end up with their opinion as their God, and they get captured by a CULT and "doctrines of devils", according to Paul who wrote that verse, Douglas.

Hebrews 13:9

Dont avoid this, based on some twisted idea you have been taught......as if you do, then you are missing the mark.

Why do you think Paul wrote Hebrews?

Clare73 said:

I note that you did not address what I presented above.

Non-responsive.

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SIMPLE: God has called everyone into a relationship with Jesus Christ to where "Many are Called but few are chosen." Unless you follow John Calvin or Martine Luther, the "ELECTION" is EVRYONE'S CALL, the FEW who are CHOSEN are those who RUN in such a way to win the "PRIZE" because without Faith it is impossible to please God. This is the election and race...

Jesus said,
15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. (John 14)

This is how to "Win" the "Prize" from the very words of Jesus, unless you call Jesus by implication of denial of these fact, a liar...

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. (John 15:1-8)

And you better check out that original language to understand verse 8. Verse 8 is the Process in how to become Jesus' disciple. ANd no one can boast of works because without Jesus, "You can do nothing."

What today's proclaiming Christian don't know, or don't want to know is that God's "free gift of grace" is for the whole world enabling ANYONE to live for God through Jesus, if only they would just reach out to Him, and find Him. (Acts 17: 24-31 Specifically verse 27)

Jesus said, "My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. He that speak of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him." (John 7:16-18)

"If any man will do his [God's] will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself."

"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." (Luke 19:10)

Four facts a believer MUST accept in order to find eternal life through Jesus Christ...

1. Most of today's believers don't know the true meaning behind what it is to have "Faith" which is a "Must Have" because God's "free gift of Grace" has been given to all mankind (Given to non-believers), "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (John 3:16) Or, those Christians who don't "Believe" this fact, by implication, are calling Jesus a liar, "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost" (Luke 19:10).

2. Most of today's believers don't know what it is to "Believe God" which actually compels a person to act and not out of obligation, but because of "Belief."

3. Most of today's believers don't want to know, or don't know what it is to receive the "free gift of grace" and how it enables a person to live for God (Romans 6 especially verse 14)

4. They DO NOT understand that these character traits of "Faith" and "Belief", even the power to enact these character traits (John 1:9-13) came through God's permission (Grace: John 3:16), yet a person MUST HAVE "Faith" and "believe" which can only be understood through "FEARING" God FIRST. And without these Character traits of "Fearing God", "Faith", and "Belief", it is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to understand "the free gift of grace."

34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that fears him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

36 The ~WORD~ which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all):

37 That ~WORD~, I say, you know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41 Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. 42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spoke these ~WORDS~, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the ~WORD~.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10 KJV)

And the Writers of the New Testament tell us EXACTLY how, if you really want to know. Those who don't want to know, want to keep on fooling themselves, leading others into that same pit, and have not been born again in Jesus Christ.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
25 He that loves his life shall lose it; and he that hates his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour. (John 12:24-26 KJV)

GOD"S GRACE IS FOR EVERYONE< AND IT IS FREE!!! ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS "BELIEVE" JESUS THE WAY ABRAHAM "BELIEVED GOD"...

ARE YOU CALLING JESUS & JOHN THE BAPTIST LIARS?...

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. (John 3:16)

33 He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 34 For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 35 The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3;33-36)

To "Believe the Son" is to do what He says through faith even before receiving the Promised Holy Spirit or you think you know better than Jesus!

Jesus Promises Another Helper​

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. (John 14:15-18)

Jesus said,
“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. (John 23-24)

Or are you calling Jesus a liar?

Douglas Brian McIntire said:

SIMPLE: God has called everyone into a relationship with Jesus Christ to where "Many are Called but few are chosen." Unless you follow John Calvin or Martine Luther, the "ELECTION" is EVRYONE'S CALL, the FEW who are CHOSEN are those who RUN in such a way to win the "PRIZE" because without Faith it is impossible to please God. This is the election and race...

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Still does not address the issue re-presented in post #61, above.

Xeno.of.athens said:

Is grace about delightful movements, very good manners, generosity, kindness, gifts?

How do you think of grace and what definition would you give for the word?

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Grace : is to be personally fluent in Tact, Kindness, and Charity.....and also to be found to be graceful , under pressure.

God's Grace is Goodness, or some would define this as Favor.
The Bible states that God allows good things to happen for the benefit of the evil as well as the good.

Grace : in the context of God's Mercy, is God's offer of the Cross of Christ, as the FREE "Gift of Salvation", to a world full of evil sinners who don't deserve it.

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose.

That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)