Did All Really Sin?

Michael Collum said:

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So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

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To say "all have sinned" is a general statement. When you begin parsing words like that it only leads to problems. It's the same as "none are righteous..." and "there are none who seek God". They speak to the general condition of mankind at the time they were written. If there truly were absolutely, positively none who seek God there would have been no one around at the time to have written that down.

But no, there are no "universalist texts".

Michael Collum said:

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I think the subject matter in the pasted image is worth discussing.

I have removed the usernames from the post so the actual content can be the focal point.

So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

Click to expand...

All are under the curse of sin. A child will covet, steal and lie about it when they're still babies. Two year old covets and steals a cookie and when asked, "did you take that cookie?" The baby will shake his head "no". The Bible does say the child will be held less accountable. The same as they are in this life by people in authority. The same for someone who is mentally disabled. But they can and do commit real sin.

Self centeredness will do that, but most are not aware of another option. That is where the Gospel of the Kingdom comes into play. Even Mary many speak of, was not sinless, but she was righteous in the eyes of God when she was chosen. That is all He asks of any of us, to put His will over ours and become righteous in doing so.

Michael Collum said:

View attachment 328803
I think the subject matter in the pasted image is worth discussing.

I have removed the usernames from the post so the actual content can be the focal point.

So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

Click to expand...

Ro 5:18-19:

All those born of Adam are condemned by Adam's sin.
Jesus was not born of Adam.
All those born of Jesus Christ are justified by Christ's righteousness.

The failure to obey the law and was intended to display that all need to be saved by grace. If someone claims they have never sinned that would subvert the intent of the law and result in people thinking that they do not to be saved by grace. "I am sinless, who needs Jesus, faith, and grace?"

"Certainly, I was guilty when I was born.
I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

Michael Collum said:

View attachment 328803
I think the subject matter in the pasted image is worth discussing.

I have removed the usernames from the post so the actual content can be the focal point.

So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

Click to expand...

ALL sin/sinned .... except for Jesus. We are all born separated from God ..... all are conceived with a sinful nature ..... there is an age of accountability ..... the revelation of sin in an individual .... God knows the heart ..... He will give a pass to those incapable of knowing what sin is .... would be non sensical to think otherwise.

Salvation is available to all but not all will come to Him and receive Him as their Lord and Savior ... His Word is clear on that.

Is not sin (putting our will ahead of the will of God) not fuelled with the knowledge of self awareness where even a baby which will sin from birth from instinctive animal behaviour but not know it, that is until it learns from the life forms that preceded it? Pets pick up on no such thing hanging around us, as they lack self awareness.

My cat definitely sins.

PuerAzaelis said:

My cat definitely sins.

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Well giving it the tree of knowledge of good and evil to scratch on certainly won't help. It's resulting shame of being watched in the litter box will soon be trumped with knowing it's previously manipulative ways can achieve greater things than keeping warm and getting fed. And don't get me started on dogs licking themselves although we can assume that is a politician's dream.

PuerAzaelis said:

My cat definitely sins.

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Cats are gods in their own minds. They just do as they please

PsaltiChrysostom said:

Cats are gods in their own minds. They just do as they please

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My late cat was an oddball. He didn't put himself first and he honestly cared about the well being of others. He was caring. I often wondered if Jesus' two commandments somehow got into his heart. My current adopted critter is a good companion but definitely a seeker of attention and I am surprised it does not have it's own tiktok channel.

Michael Collum said:

View attachment 328803
I think the subject matter in the pasted image is worth discussing.

I have removed the usernames from the post so the actual content can be the focal point.

So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

Click to expand...

All have a sin nature, inherited from Adam. It doesn't matter whether Mary, babies or severely mentally handicapped people have committed any personal sins of their own or not, we all need a Saviour. How do we know? We all die.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Mary referred to Christ as her Saviour. You don't need a saviour if you don't need saving.

Luke 1:47
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

Any time we value anything above God - even a little bit - that is called idolatry.

I'll let people think of the implications of that.

Michael Collum said:

View attachment 328803

So the bible says All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God.

Is there an exception in this "all" as there is with some universalist texts such as "as in Adam all have died, in Christ all will be made alive?"

Did all really sin?

Click to expand...

Apart from Jesus, yes.
If it was possible for ONE person to lead a sinless, perfect life, 24/7, in thought, word, deed, intention - then it was possible for anyone.
If it was possible for mankind to live perfect, sinless lives on their own, in their own strength, then Jesus would not have come to give his life for our sin.
Babies/toddlers don't sin, but they don't remain babies for very long.

BurningBush84 said:

"Certainly, I was guilty when I was born.
I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

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And?

The notion of sin is boring. Its only use is contrasting sin with God's forgiveness. It's using a negative to prove a positive. God is always positive and luminous; at this level, sin completely disappears and its notion is forgoten by the mind, a human remaining constantly happy.

IoanC said:

The notion of sin is boring.

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The notion of sin is entirely Biblical.