Annihilation=No Wrath

BurningBush84 · Mar 6, 2023

"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

Maria Billingsley · Mar 7, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

Scripture teaches a lake of fire. The question remains whether it is eternal conscience torment or a slow painful second death.
Blessings

Blade · Mar 7, 2023

Annihilation... cute yet that's not what His word says. "Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire."

Yeah I'm going with what God says

eleos1954 · Mar 8, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

God does bring sin to an end ... and for eternity AMEN!
well no and yes ..... the dammed experience the 2nd death .... at the 2nd resurrection they do come back to life (not eternal) the battle of gog and magog ensues (not a peaceful time at all).... how long that lasts (who knows?) ..... so there will be suffering (due to this war) of the unsaved .... at the final judgement God will end it (sin) all for eternity ..... God don't torture people for eternity, so in that light ... He is merciful. I am certainly ok with that.

Life or death ... the 2nd death is not to exist for eternity .... is the punishment ... not a conscious torment of some kind.

Would you rather people be tortured for eternity? (rather vindictive and horrifying) I wouldn't want that for anyone ... even the worst of us.
How happy can one be knowing .... perhaps people they know and loved are constantly "burning"????? I would not serve a God like that.

BurningBush84 · Mar 8, 2023

eleos1954 said:
God does bring sin to an end ... and for eternity AMEN!
well no and yes ..... the dammed experience the 2nd death .... at the 2nd resurrection they do come back to life (not eternal) the battle of gog and magog ensues (not a peaceful time at all).... how long that lasts (who knows?) ..... so there will be suffering (due to this war) of the unsaved .... at the final judgement God will end it (sin) all for eternity ..... God don't torture people for eternity, so in that light ... He is merciful. I am certainly ok with that.

Life or death ... the 2nd death is not to exist for eternity .... is the punishment ... not a conscious torment of some kind.

Would you rather people be tortured for eternity? (rather vindictive and horrifying) I wouldn't want that for anyone ... even the worst of us.
How happy can one be knowing .... perhaps people they know and loved are constantly "burning"????? I would not serve a God like that.

Hebrews 9:27 says man is destined to die only once not twice, and only one judgement.

Jesus came down from Heaven to save people from God's wrath. It makes no sense to call eternal sleep God's wrath. Eternal sleep is a gracious blessing. A gracious blessing is not the wrath of God.

eleos1954 · Mar 8, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
Hebrews 9:27 says man is destined to die only once not twice, and only one judgement.

Jesus came down from Heaven to save people from God's wrath. It makes no sense to call eternal sleep God's wrath. Eternal sleep is a gracious blessing. A gracious blessing is not the wrath of God.

The first death (earthly) is called a sleep .... ALL will be resurrected.

Yes ... one judgement when Christ returns .... but that is not the final end .... the 2nd death (2nd death is for eternity).

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ.

What is it that people don't understand about death .... death has a finality .... the first death is a sleep .... the 2nd death (final) is reserved
for all of the lost and the end of all sin. The first death is called sleep because ALL will be resurrected one day.

Jesus called death a sleep (ie Lazarus is asleep ... Lazarus is dead) .... and also is supported many, many, many times throughout His Word.

What Does the Bible Say About Fall Asleep In Death?

Ceasing to exist for eternity is a blessing? NO .... living for eternity is a blessing.

The wrath of God does not continue thorough out eternity .... who would want that ...... burning and suffering for eternity (I guess you want that). Good grief! How sadistic and down right evil is that?

BurningBush84 · Mar 8, 2023

It doesn't matter what I think Hell should be. What matters is the truth. Eternal sleep is not a punishment. How can a person feel punishment if they don't exist ? How can a person feel eternal regret if they don't exist ? Jesus saved us from eternal sleep ??? Whats so bad about eternal sleep ? You won't even know what your missing because you won't exist. You can't punish someone that doesn't exist. If you don't exist you won't remember that slap on the wrist aka God's wrath . God's wrath is not a slap on the wrist.

How do you interpret Luke 9:60 ???

How can people who are asleep bury those who are asleep???

eleos1954 · Mar 9, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
Hebrews 9:27 says man is destined to die only once not twice, and only one judgement.

Jesus came down from Heaven to save people from God's wrath. It makes no sense to call eternal sleep God's wrath. Eternal sleep is a gracious blessing. A gracious blessing is not the wrath of God.

Some will indeed die twice ..... yes, once judgement (when He returns) judgement has been made but the consequences of that judgement don't take place until later ..... death is non existence .... the lost will suffer the wrath of being exterminate by fire and will cease to exist.

Where exactly is this eternal tortuous "burning place"? Is ok for us torture people? (of course not) Did Jesus torture anyone? No

The lost don't receive eternal life .... a tortuous burning place for eternity .... would be living in a tortuous environment .... but eternally nontheless.

Life is life ..... death is death.

Rom. 6. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 10:28

And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

1 Corinthians 15:26

The last enemy to be destroyed is death
.

Revelation 21:8

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (death not eternal life burning somewhere)

Revelation 20:14

Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

eleos1954 said:
Some will indeed die twice ..... yes, once judgement (when He returns) judgement has been made but the consequences of that judgement don't take place until later ..... death is non existence .... the lost will suffer the wrath of being exterminate by fire and will cease to exist.

Where exactly is this eternal tortuous "burning place"? Is ok for us torture people? (of course not) Did Jesus torture anyone? No

The lost don't receive eternal life .... a tortuous burning place for eternity .... would be living in a tortuous environment .... but eternally nontheless.

Life is life ..... death is death.

Rom. 6. [23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death
.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.” (death not eternal life burning somewhere)

Revelation 20:14
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

So how can the dead bury the dead ??? You didn't answer my question on Luke 9:60.

eleos1954 · Mar 9, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
So how can the dead bury the dead ??? You didn't answer my question on Luke 9:60.

The man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

More important to preach the gospel (the Kingdom) than to be concerned about burying the dead. ie The dead know nothing.

Let the dead bury the dead is expressed to either encourage someone to put spiritual responsibilities first above all else, and/or to encourage a person to not dwell in the past and to move on from old problems and conflicts for the sake of their own well-being.

All are spiritually dead until they hear and respond to the gospel.

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

eleos1954 said:
The man replied, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

More important to preach the gospel (the Kingdom) than to be concerned about burying the dead. ie The dead know nothing.

Let the dead bury the dead is expressed to either encourage someone to put spiritual responsibilities first above all else, and/or to encourage a person to not dwell in the past and to move on from old problems and conflicts for the sake of their own well-being.

All are spiritually dead until they hear and respond to the gospel.

You have described 3 different types of death in this thread so far. You just spoke about spiritual death. Then you spoke about physical death being a temporary sleep. Then you spoke about the death that occurs when God throws the wicked into the lake of fire aka eternal sleep aka annihilation aka eternal separation from God. That's 3 !! Not 2. That's 3 different types of death. Do you agree ?

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

So my questions to eleos1954 or anybody would be, what type of the 3 deaths is God talking about in Genesis 2:17 ? Spiritual death? Physical death aka temporary sleep? Or Annihilation???

And in Romans 6:23, what type of the 3 deaths is that referring too ? Temporary sleep death ? spiritual death ? Or Annihilation/eternal sleep type of death ?

Also what type of death is the "second death" ???

Is it spiritual death ? Temporary sleep death? Or Annihilation death ???

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

The Bible makes it very clear , you only die once.

"And, just as it is appointed for people to die only once and after this comes the judgment,"

Hebrews 9:27

"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Matthew 25:46

It's impossible to endure eternal punishment if you don't exist.

Which of the 3 types of death did the Rich Man experience in Luke 16:19-31 ???

Hebrews 9:27 makes Luke 16:19-31 very clear and easy to understand, no need for different interpretations.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 9, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
"..... but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord." Romans 12:19

"........their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them". Deuteronomy 32:35

Annihilation seems very peaceful, the total opposite of experiencing wrath. Annihilation is basically resting in eternal peace, a peaceful soothing eternal sleep. Annihilation means the wicked unbelievers wont have to endure any punishment in the afterlife. Annihilation seems like more of a blessing than a curse. Annihilation seems more like Gods grace rather than his wrath. If your trying to convince people that Gods wrath is peaceful eternal sleep, then Gods wrath is a gracious peaceful reward for the wicked. Absolutely no eternal consequences for the wicked unbeliever. Eternal sleep is a gift, not a consequence, not a punishment. No reason to fear Gods wrath. If you don't go to Heaven it wont matter because you wont know what your missing, you wont feel regret, remorse or pain, you wont feel anything. Is that what the Bible really teaches ??

That's an interesting question, BB. Personally, I'm not a stickler on whether we are annihilated or burn for eternity. To my analytic mind, both are forms of punishment. They're just not the same in the ongoing degree of pain that is involved. But both are a form of punishment.

If they're not, then we might as well become consistent in real time in our real world experience and stop referring to the "Death Penalty" as a ........ penalty. :dontcare:

2PhiloVoid · Mar 9, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
So my questions to eleos1954 or anybody would be, what type of the 3 deaths is God talking about in Genesis 2:17 ? Spiritual death? Physical death aka temporary sleep? Or Annihilation???

What is being referred to, in terms that an ancient Israelite would conceive of, is none of these exactly. But for the most part, it involves physical death.

BurningBush84 said:
And in Romans 6:23, what type of the 3 deaths is that referring too ? Temporary sleep death ? spiritual death ? Or Annihilation/eternal sleep type of death ?

Also what type of death is the "second death" ???

Is it spiritual death ? Temporary sleep death? Or Annihilation death ???

As with the verse above, it's none of these exactly.

Berserk · Mar 9, 2023

As evangelical apologist C. S. Lewis famously said, "The gates of Hell are locked from the inside." God is love and God's love never abandons anyone after death. If they are in Hell, that's their choice and they have opportunities to make righteous choices and be retrieved from Hell.

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

2PhiloVoid said:
What is being referred to, in terms that an ancient Israelite would conceive of, is none of these exactly. But for the most part, it involves physical death.

As with the verse above, it's none of these exactly.

So you believe in 4 different types of death??

1= Spiritual death.
2= The physical death of a body aka temporary sleep.
3 = Annihilation aka eternal sleep
4= what ???

BurningBush84 · Mar 9, 2023

2PhiloVoid said:
That's an interesting question, BB. Personally, I'm not a stickler on whether we are annihilated or burn for eternity. To my analytic mind, both are forms of punishment. They're just not the same in the ongoing degree of pain that is involved. But both are a form of punishment.

If they're not, then we might as well become consistent in real time in our real world experience and stop referring to the "Death Penalty" as a ........ penalty.

A person can't endure punishment if they don't exist . A person cant feel punishment if they don't exist. A person that doesn't exist cant be punished. You can't punish someone that doesn't exist. God's wrath is Hell. That's what Jesus saved us from. God's wrath is not eternal sleep. There is no wrath in sleep . The Bible speaks about God's love and his wrath. Wrath is the complete opposite of Resting In Peace for all eternity.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 10, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
So you believe in 4 different types of death??

1= Spiritual death.
2= The physical death of a body aka temporary sleep.
3 = Annihilation aka eternal sleep
4= what ???

No. I don't think I indicated that I believe in 4 different types of death. I've simply stated that the verses you've cited don't necessarily bear the denotations which you've so far brought forth for consideration.

That's all. Nothing more.

2PhiloVoid · Mar 10, 2023

BurningBush84 said:
A person can't endure punishment if they don't exist . A person cant feel punishment if they don't exist. A person that doesn't exist cant be punished. You can't punish someone that doesn't exist. God's wrath is Hell. That's what Jesus saved us from. God's wrath is not eternal sleep. There is no wrath in sleep . The Bible speaks about God's love and his wrath. Wrath is the complete opposite of Resting In Peace for all eternity.

Well, that may be. On the other hand, it might not be.

But unfortunately, because of the rules of CF, we'll never have that discussion here .................................................................... :dontcare:

Annihilation=No Wrath

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran

God is Love

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Matthew 10:28​

1 Corinthians 15:26​

Revelation 21:8​

Revelation 20:14​

Well-Known Member

Matthew 10:28​

1 Corinthians 15:26​

Revelation 21:8​

Revelation 20:14​

God is Love

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Get my point, Web-Maker ???

Similar threads

Matthew 10:28

1 Corinthians 15:26

Revelation 21:8

Revelation 20:14

Matthew 10:28

1 Corinthians 15:26

Revelation 21:8

Revelation 20:14