Can i not wear a hat as a Christian

Lost4words · Mar 3, 2023

Nothing wrong in wearing a hat!

jacks · Mar 3, 2023

Lost4words said:
Nothing wrong in wearing a hat!

Well, when one has rakish good looks, they can get away with wearing anything!

SeventhFisherofMen · Mar 3, 2023

Strong in Him said:
So the Lord will get annoyed if we worship him with something on our heads?
Paul tells us to pray at all times and give thanks is all circumstances. If you believe it is wrong to pray and wear a hat, you can never wear a hat again.
Personally, I think the Lord may be more concerned if we don't worship him at all.

it is difficult because the same Paul talks about freedom from the law, but then gives us this new law that feels personally like Jesus would be yelling at a pharisee for enforcing like , "Jesus, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do when praying! They have a baseball cap on!" Also what about when Paul says "It seemed good to
the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with
anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to
idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled
animals and from sexual immorality. You will do
well to avoid these things."

Strong in Him · Mar 3, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
it is difficult because the same Paul talks about freedom from the law,

Sorry; maybe I'm missing something, but I don't find it at all difficult.
Paul was talking about freedom from the law. What law? The law given to the Hebrew slaves at Mt Sinai - those who had been rescued from Egypt - to show them how to live as God's people. As far as I am aware, that law said nothing about head coverings - except for the priests, who wore turbans.
Even if it had specifically said that worshippers may not wear head coverings, that was for them. Gentiles would not have been under that law unless they deliberately converted to Judaism. And that was the point of Paul's teachings in the NT - Gentiles do not need to convert to Judaism to be saved by Christ.
So the only commands we are to obey are Christ's commands - and he never told us not to pray if we were wearing a hat.

SeventhFisherofMen said:
but then gives us this new law that feels personally like Jesus would be yelling at a pharisee for enforcing like , "Jesus, your disciples are doing what is unlawful to do when praying! They have a baseball cap on!"

But Jesus never did say that!
In fact, he told us to pray in secret where only our heavenly Father can see us. So no one else would see, or know, what we were wearing.

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Also what about when Paul says "It seemed good to
the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with
anything beyond the following requirements:
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to
idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled
animals and from sexual immorality. You will do
well to avoid these things."

Where does that mention wearing, or not wearing, hats?
James wrote that in a letter which was to be delivered to Gentile churches. Paul was one of those who delivered the letter - yet a few years later he told the Corinthian church that an idol meant nothing. And that people should only abstain from eating food offered to idols if it would cause a fellow Christian to lose their faith, or to feel that they had sinned. Paul said that the kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking.
So though he had approved of the letter and was sent to deliver it, he later changed his mind about some of its contents.

Br4nd0n · Mar 3, 2023

The Righterzpen said:
Well that's interesting. I've never heard that before! (The Roman citizen hat explanation in connection to this passage.)

There were other ways (for certain populations) that one could prove that either they weren't a slave, or that if they were; they belonged to a certain household.

In the military; they'd be tattooed with their legion or commander's symbol. People of all sorts of ethnicities could be in the army. And the "mark" that indicated "military" was actually a "cross". (It was a Greek letter that was no longer in use any more, that was called "a cross"; although what it technically looked like, I don't know. It most probably resembled a + sign.) And next to this would be the legion number or commander's symbol (or maybe even both).

Captives taken in combat were considered slaves; but one could become a citizen by joining the army. They'd have to have permission by the slave owner to join the army; although "obedient combat captives" would be owned by military people. After 20 years a soldier earned citizenship. Which citizenship was a BIG DEAL in ancient Rome. They also tattooed free born men who joined the army, that they couldn't be sold as slaves.

And there likely was a similar civilian accommodation for tattooing slaves whom both master and slave wanted to remain together.

Actually getting into the Roman army was an ordeal in and of itself. If one made it all the way through training; they were assigned a legion. (For a fully trained recruit assigned a legion; I believe their "basic training" was about 6 months. And on top of that; a fully trained legionnaire had been in the army about 2 years. With a few exceptions - like those who were assigned to be executioners - soldiers were trained in every combat position.) Once you were officially in the army; you'd joined for life. Your legion became your family. And a lot of military people actually had family members who were also in the military.

The military was the only way people who didn't have money could become citizens and earn "ranking" in Roman society. Obviously the army had a ranking system and the higher up in rank you went; the higher prestige you had in the eyes of civilian citizens. Soldiers who were over 40 years old were assigned to things like guarding prisons. They could also be "territorial proctors". Similar to like a combination of town mayor and police chief.

Pontius Pilate would have been in the army and he was probably over 50 years old at the point he was a proctorate in Judea. Civilians could be proctors too; but they would not have chosen to be proctors over Roman territories. (too much potential inherent conflict) So someplace like Judea (because of revolts against Rome) would have only been taken by a military person.

People who made good rank in the Roman army had a high degree of personal discipline. Those who were the most "pragmatically even tempered" would be offered position of executioner. (Those that carried out crucifixions and / executing soldiers. These were well paid positions.) Army executioners also dealt with citizens who were given a death sentence. Citizens could be executed after a formal trial. Citizens were beheaded. Also, Rome did not crucify the insane, females or children. Common crimes citizens were executed for were murder, treason and rape (against female citizens).

One "benefit" of being in the army is that it was illegal to crucify soldiers. It was considered too much of a shame. Soldiers who'd committed crimes worthy of death were killed by the men in their own legion. That was considered a "redeemable act" to face one's own death as a soldier and not a coward.

Executioners would use an "execution flagellum" on soldiers. This was the type of whipping implement that would have pieces of glass and metal in it designed to rip the skin and muscles. The execution flagellum was designed that the soldier would bleed out and die long before the designated "40 lashes" was complete. This type of flagellum was not used on someone who was to be crucified; because the intent of crucifixion was that the death be a prolonged as possible. Also the execution of soldiers was only "public" to the legion members. Of which, post death they'd be given a soldier's burial.

So thus when Jesus was flogged; they used a "chastisement flagellum". We know this because Pilate stated that he would "chastise" Jesus and let him go. (Luke 23:16) "Chastisements" weren't meant to be lethal; just unpleasant. The army used the same system on disobedient soldiers who did not commit crimes considered worthy of death. Soldiers would be "chastised" for things such as petty theft or brawling among the ranks. Which like OT law; a "chastisement" in the army was 39 lashes with a 3 strand leather whip; which would have constituted 13 strikes. (39 lashes) So no, Jesus would not have beesmstruck with an "execution flagellum" because that was a death resercollege.soldiers.

I listen to randall smith. He has videos from his bible college "gcbi" on youtube. It might be the 5th video on corinthians where he addresses this.

On a related note, naked bible podcast episode 86 addresses the female headcovering of the same chapter in corinthians, if you havent heard it. I would highly recommend.

Thanks for sharing your depth of knowledge with me, i appreciate it.

ViaCrucis · Mar 3, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
can men wear hats in general?

Of course they can.

Keep in mind, also, that Paul was Jewish, it's doubtful he would have been entering into synagogues or the Temple without a head covering--because that has always been Jewish practice.

So Paul isn't saying men can't wear hats.

-CryptoLutheran

The Righterzpen · Mar 4, 2023

Br4nd0n said:
I listen to randall smith. He has videos from his bible college "gcbi" on youtube. It might be the 5th video on corinthians where he addresses this.

On a related note, naked bible podcast episode 86 addresses the female headcovering of the same chapter in corinthians, if you havent heard it. I would highly recommend.

Thanks for sharing your depth of knowledge with me, i appreciate it.

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out. I think I've heard of "naked Bible podcast" though. It sounds familiar.

eleos1954 · Mar 5, 2023

Strong in Him said:
So the Lord will get annoyed if we worship him with something on our heads?
Paul tells us to pray at all times and give thanks is all circumstances. If you believe it is wrong to pray and wear a hat, you can never wear a hat again.
Personally, I think the Lord may be more concerned if we don't worship him at all.

Removing one's hat is a gesture of respect .... let Him be your guide in the matter.

Strong in Him · Mar 5, 2023

eleos1954 said:
Removing one's hat is a gesture of respect ....

To other people, yes.
The Lord sees our hearts. So as long as we're not disrespecting him in our hearts, then fine - if that's what you feel you need to do.
But it's also fine to worship him while wearing a hat.

eleos1954 · Mar 5, 2023

Strong in Him said:
To other people, yes.
The Lord sees our hearts. So as long as we're not disrespecting him in our hearts, then fine - if that's what you feel you need to do.
But it's also fine to worship him while wearing a hat.

we pray unceasingly .... however in a congregational setting and when in devotional prayer (on your knees before the Lord) it doesn't seem appropriate to me .... yes He does weight the heart .... but that is not to say .... there are times when we engage with Him with the highest respect.

1 Corinthians 11:1-34

Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. ...

ecumeni · Mar 5, 2023

I am wearing a hat right now while reading this thread. I don't pray with my head covered though.

Strong in Him · Mar 6, 2023

eleos1954 said:
we pray unceasingly .... however in a congregational setting and when in devotional prayer (on your knees before the Lord) it doesn't seem appropriate to me .... yes He does weight the heart .... but that is not to say .... there are times when we engage with Him with the highest respect.

Like I said, you do what you feel you have to do. I don't wear hats very much anyway, to be honest. But if I was out walking while wearing one, I wouldn't take it off to pray.
Respecting God, to me, is far more to do with obedience, not taking him for granted, trusting him, not using his name in vain etc, than it is about clothes. Someone could be wearing their best clothes, jewels, no hat, have a leather bound Bible etc, but still not know, trust or obey God. That's far more damaging that someone who is out for a walk, wearing casual clothes and cloth cap, but who is praying for their community and church as they go along.

SeventhFisherofMen · Mar 6, 2023

this is clearly a tough matter, one where i wish Jesus was here to respond

ViaCrucis · Mar 6, 2023

I was taught when I was very young to remove my hat indoors, especially in church. While I rarely remove my hat when inside (it depends on the place, I won't remove it in a Walmart, but I will remove it in a courthouse), I still consistently take my had off when I enter into a church. I don't do it because I think I'm "supposed to", as though God cares one way or the other. It's just something I do. Personal choice based on how I was raised, but that's it.

-CryptoLutheran

Aussie Pete · Mar 15, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
1 Corinthians 11:
2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man,[a] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved.6 For if a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head,[b] since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own[c] head, because of the angels. 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman. 12 For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.

I just bought a hat and now dont know if i can wear it. What do you guys think?

Wear a hat, just not indoors or when praying or prophesying.

biblelesson · Mar 15, 2023

Strong in Him said:
Sorry; maybe I'm missing something, but I don't find it at all difficult.
Paul was talking about freedom from the law. What law? The law given to the Hebrew slaves at Mt Sinai - those who had been rescued from Egypt - to show them how to live as God's people. As far as I am aware, that law said nothing about head coverings - except for the priests, who wore turbans.
Even if it had specifically said that worshippers may not wear head coverings, that was for them. Gentiles would not have been under that law unless they deliberately converted to Judaism. And that was the point of Paul's teachings in the NT - Gentiles do not need to convert to Judaism to be saved by Christ.
So the only commands we are to obey are Christ's commands - and he never told us not to pray if we were wearing a hat.

But Jesus never did say that!
In fact, he told us to pray in secret where only our heavenly Father can see us. So no one else would see, or know, what we were wearing.

Where does that mention wearing, or not wearing, hats?
James wrote that in a letter which was to be delivered to Gentile churches. Paul was one of those who delivered the letter - yet a few years later he told the Corinthian church that an idol meant nothing. And that people should only abstain from eating food offered to idols if it would cause a fellow Christian to lose their faith, or to feel that they had sinned. Paul said that the kingdom of God is not about eating and drinking.
So though he had approved of the letter and was sent to deliver it, he later changed his mind about some of its contents.

We are under new commands under the New Testment, not the Old Testament where the Mosiac law was followed. However the commands from the old that applied, Paul addressed them in the new. So we must follow the commands under the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 11:4-7 KJV
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

SeventhFisherofMen · Mar 15, 2023

biblelesson said:
We are under new commands under the New Testment, not the Old Testament where the Mosiac law was followed. However the commands from the old that applied, Paul addressed them in the new. So we must follow the commands under the New Covenant.

1 Corinthians 11:4-7 KJV
4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Are you a guy? and if so do you never wear hats? and if you're a girl do you always cover your head? I'm just curious because usually when people take the Bible 100% literally and say with absolute certainty something is a certain way i wonder if they follow that

biblelesson · Mar 15, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Are you a guy? and if so do you never wear hats? and if you're a girl do you always cover your head? I'm just curious because usually when people take the Bible 100% literally and say with absolute certainty something is a certain way i wonder if they follow that

It’s only during worship! Yes, I wear a scarf, but I have forgotten sometimes. Men are to remove their hats/head covering during worship. Apostle Paul goes into detail why?

But, you just don’t want to! You want to be disobedient. We all have things that we complain about that God requires. But eventually God guides us by the Holy Spirit to honor Him and Jesus!

I didn’t want to either at first!

biblelesson · Mar 15, 2023

SeventhFisherofMen said:
Are you a guy? and if so do you never wear hats? and if you're a girl do you always cover your head? I'm just curious because usually when people take the Bible 100% literally and say with absolute certainty something is a certain way i wonder if they follow that

Just another note, listen to God’s word. Don’t listen to people if what they say is the opposite God’s word. They didn’t write the Bible. Understand what Paul say the reason is. Men uncover their heads because they are the glory and image of God, and in honor of Christ and in honor of being the head. Women are not the head, and Paul explains she covers her head because a woman is the glory of man, and was made for the man. And a woman covering her head during worship has something to do with having power on her head because of the angels, 1 Corinthians 11:10 KJV, “For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.” So without the head covering during worship, the woman has no powers, and is not protected.

There are reasons that we don’t always understand.

SeventhFisherofMen · Mar 15, 2023

biblelesson said:
It’s only during worship! Yes, I wear a scarf, but I have forgotten sometimes. Men are to remove their hats/head covering during worship. Apostle Paul goes into detail why?

But, you just don’t want to! You want to be disobedient. We all have things that we complain about that God requires. But eventually God guides us by the Holy Spirit to honor Him and Jesus!

I didn’t want to either at first!

i never said i dont want to or be dissobedient? I was legit asking because you left a verse there and didn't elaborate. If i didnt ask i would probably go the rest of my life thinking you told me to never wear a hat...

It takes more than just saying scripture to convince someone we need to be a community that communicates. I need guidance not guilt, and right now im not wearing my hat and haven't been for a while because of people basically saying Paul said never wear a hat.

Please dont assume i dont want to be obedient if you knew me irl you definitely wouldn't say that, if i didnt care i never would have posted this question to begin with

Can i not wear a hat as a Christian

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