I tested a rich Christian

timewerx

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In another forum. A non-religious hobby forum, we have a highly successful member who openly admits being Christian and I guess proud to be one.

He often tells about his career. A very good one. As an engineer (or a scientist, can't remember the exact detail on that one) working for one of the top aerospace companies in USA, having high level security clearance and also worked on smaller but high profile projects. No doubt he is highly intelligent and smart, a man with 'golden hands' everything he worked on succeeded. And his career made him quite well off financially and retired successfully, no debt with large savings and large income from investments and pension. He travels all over the world with his wife many times a year.

He often talks about his successful career and attributes everything to God all of his blessings and success. Everyone in the forum knows him. He knows me just enough to trust me. Then lately, I often see him write in his posts he no longer values money and material things.

So I tested him on the things he wrote.;) One thing about this rich Christian pensioner, he had lots of cars for his own use only. He doesn't collect cars but he has different vehicles for different occasions. Some of them expensive, some are just regular sedans like most people drive to work.

Everyone in the forum knows me for having plenty of car problems with my old beat up car. So I asked this rich member if he can give me one of his car that's working perfectly fine to replace my old beat up car. He says he can't. I gave him a 2nd option, if he can't give up any of his cars due to sentimental value, he can send me money instead so I can find a good used car to replace my old beat up car. Again, he said no and he told me not because he doesn't trust me nor doesn't like me, he just wouldn't do it.

So I reasoned with him. He had plenty of 'disposable money', cars he can give away without problem. If he doesn't value money nor material things anymore, he shouldn't have any problems giving them to those who may need it so badly.

He gave a final reply he just can't with a smiley. He did not give any reason nor tried to debate the topic. From that point on, I never saw him write about his his beliefs about money and material things anymore. He also stopped telling about his Christianity. I wonder sometimes if I overdid it or did just right. After all, it would seem his intentions are in the wrong place and I made him out to be a hypocrite when it comes to worldly things.

I've observed this behavior often enough among other Christians with privileged life. They say they don't value money but ask them for a bit of help with money, they won't.
 
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timewerx

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There are no winners here.

You don't know if his claims are true; he doesn't know if your needs are real. This is where social media is a failure compared to interacting with people in the real world.

We've known him that way for many years and keeps us updated with pictures. I post pictures myself.

Why would anyone pretend to be rich, probably the worst thing to do in a forum.
 
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Diamond7

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They say they don't value money but ask them for a bit of help with money, they won't.
Yeah, right, everyone always wants money, usually to buy drugs or something harmful. God does people a favor by not giving them money that they can use in a harmful way. The love of money is the root of all evil. We need to learn how to be good stewards of what God has entrusted to us.

I think we should use what we have to help others, but helping people is really not all that easy. For me, I am getting older and want to get rid of stuff because that will make it easier when I die for my wife and son not to have to deal with all of my junk. Sometimes it can be difficult even though I have no use for a lot of the stuff I have accumulated. I remember times like when I was in the army and all you have is what you can carry on a backpack or in your duffel bag when you are traveling. So I know, the less we have the freer we feel.

But we all need to be good stewards and not frivolous to waste away what has been entrusted to us. My son is an engineer and they travel around a lot. For example, he was working for a company that was modernizing their furnace for a steal. So he had to travel to their different factories in different cities. He is talking about wanting to do some work in California for three or four months. The pay is a lot higher there like 130 thousand a year. Of course, the cost of living is a lot higher also.

If you need a car, trust God to provide for your needs. He promises us that He well supply all we need abundantly above and beyond all we could ever ask or think. Philippians 4:19 Ephesians 3:20
 
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timewerx

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Yeah, right, everyone always wants money, usually to buy drugs or something harmful. God does people a favor by not giving them money that they can use in a harmful way. The love of money is the root of all evil. We need to learn how to be good stewards of what God has entrusted to us.

He had the option to visit my place to make sure I'm going to use the car or the money for good and he knew it.

At least now he doesn't tell everyone that he doesn't value money and material things anymore. If you're going to say such thing, you have to mean it. It's like garbage. We don't value garbage so we throw it away. If you can't throw something away then it's not garbage, it has value to you.

I think we should use what we have to help others, but helping people is really not all that easy
I know. The least we can do is preach the right stuff about it.

If you need a car, trust God to provide for your needs. He promises us that He well supply all we need abundantly above and beyond all we could ever ask or think. Philippians 4:19 Ephesians 3:20
My car is in bad shape for a long time. It's falling apart piece by piece and can't afford to have the problems fixed. Drowning in debt inherited from parents. However, we don't really badly need a replacement car. It would great if we could but we'd be totally fine too if we can't.

We get around on public transportation just fine. I prefer to get around with my bicycle even to buy groceries and even on long commutes 40 miles away.

These days, the old car is mostly used to get mom, sister, and niece to church every Sunday. They can't use the car on other days because nobody else can drive but me.

We don't need help that badly. Not for now anyway. Our debt is far bigger problem than the car. Just needed to test if another Christian's heart is in the right place.
 
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Diamond7

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It's falling apart piece by piece
You bought the wrong car. My car is 15 years old and I do not have any problems with it. I have to fix the brakes, battery, wipers but that is about all I can remember having to do. Even then it was more of a problem not driving it because they are made to be driven.
 
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zoidar

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In another forum. A non-religious hobby forum, we have a highly successful member who openly admits being Christian and I guess proud to be one.

He often tells about his career. A very good one. As an engineer (or a scientist, can't remember the exact detail on that one) working for one of the top aerospace companies in USA, having high level security clearance and also worked on smaller but high profile projects. No doubt he is highly intelligent and smart, a man with 'golden hands' everything he worked on succeeded. And his career made him quite well off financially and retired successfully, no debt with large savings and large income from investments and pension. He travels all over the world with his wife many times a year.

He often talks about his successful career and attributes everything to God all of his blessings and success. Everyone in the forum knows him. He knows me just enough to trust me. Then lately, I often see him write in his posts he no longer values money and material things.

So I tested him on the things he wrote.;) One thing about this rich Christian pensioner, he had lots of cars for his own use only. He doesn't collect cars but he has different vehicles for different occasions. Some of them expensive, some are just regular sedans like most people drive to work.

Everyone in the forum knows me for having plenty of car problems with my old beat up car. So I asked this rich member if he can give me one of his car that's working perfectly fine to replace my old beat up car. He says he can't. I gave him a 2nd option, if he can't give up any of his cars due to sentimental value, he can send me money instead so I can find a good used car to replace my old beat up car. Again, he said no and he told me not because he doesn't trust me nor doesn't like me, he just wouldn't do it.

So I reasoned with him. He had plenty of 'disposable money', cars he can give away without problem. If he doesn't value money nor material things anymore, he shouldn't have any problems giving them to those who may need it so badly.

He gave a final reply he just can't with a smiley. He did not give any reason nor tried to debate the topic. From that point on, I never saw him write about his his beliefs about money and material things anymore. He also stopped telling about his Christianity. I wonder sometimes if I overdid it or did just right. After all, it would seem his intentions are in the wrong place and I made him out to be a hypocrite when it comes to worldly things.

I've observed this behavior often enough among other Christians with privileged life. They say they don't value money but ask them for a bit of help with money, they won't.
Not knowing you is reason enough. But if money and cars are that important to him, then he certainly value money a lot. There is a time to give and a time to hold back. We have to be responsible with money, not cheap, but responsible.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Why would anyone pretend to be rich, probably the worst thing to do in a forum.

Yes, why on earth would somebody lie on the internet to strangers where there are no ramifications for said misrepresentations? It’s a mystery.

Ultimately, I don’t get the post. You perceive they have more than you, including things that if you had them would make your life easier. You ask for them, they said no. That has nothing to do with them or their faith anymore than your coveting and asking for charity/gifts has to do with yours.

You probably don’t have to look to far to find somebody who looks at what you have and thinks they can make better use of what you have themselves or needs desperately something you have. What does that mean about your standing as a Christian if you say no)
 
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Hazelelponi

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In another forum. A non-religious hobby forum, we have a highly successful member who openly admits being Christian and I guess proud to be one.

He often tells about his career. A very good one. As an engineer (or a scientist, can't remember the exact detail on that one) working for one of the top aerospace companies in USA, having high level security clearance and also worked on smaller but high profile projects. No doubt he is highly intelligent and smart, a man with 'golden hands' everything he worked on succeeded. And his career made him quite well off financially and retired successfully, no debt with large savings and large income from investments and pension. He travels all over the world with his wife many times a year.

He often talks about his successful career and attributes everything to God all of his blessings and success. Everyone in the forum knows him. He knows me just enough to trust me. Then lately, I often see him write in his posts he no longer values money and material things.

So I tested him on the things he wrote.;) One thing about this rich Christian pensioner, he had lots of cars for his own use only. He doesn't collect cars but he has different vehicles for different occasions. Some of them expensive, some are just regular sedans like most people drive to work.

Everyone in the forum knows me for having plenty of car problems with my old beat up car. So I asked this rich member if he can give me one of his car that's working perfectly fine to replace my old beat up car. He says he can't. I gave him a 2nd option, if he can't give up any of his cars due to sentimental value, he can send me money instead so I can find a good used car to replace my old beat up car. Again, he said no and he told me not because he doesn't trust me nor doesn't like me, he just wouldn't do it.

So I reasoned with him. He had plenty of 'disposable money', cars he can give away without problem. If he doesn't value money nor material things anymore, he shouldn't have any problems giving them to those who may need it so badly.

He gave a final reply he just can't with a smiley. He did not give any reason nor tried to debate the topic. From that point on, I never saw him write about his his beliefs about money and material things anymore. He also stopped telling about his Christianity. I wonder sometimes if I overdid it or did just right. After all, it would seem his intentions are in the wrong place and I made him out to be a hypocrite when it comes to worldly things.

I've observed this behavior often enough among other Christians with privileged life. They say they don't value money but ask them for a bit of help with money, they won't.

Honestly, I don't think you can judge him for that.

I'm a member of a hobby forum myself and it's one where as members we have a keen eye out to help out other regular members whenever we can as far as the hobby itself goes. I probably sent products and various things to 50 members or more over the years, and many people sent things to me as well if they were able or had extra of anything.

In general it's not a problem - until someone says openly and publicly that you mailed them free stuff.

Then the beggars show up who live better: they have nicer homes and more expendable money than your average joe who literally take advantage of other people's generosity. They start messaging and asking for stuff - which generally wouldn't be a problem except they could buy what they ask for without issues.

It became such a problem that everything a large group of us would send to others had to be kept secret: we started asking for our names not to be mentioned in open forum, and perhaps less got sent.

Weeding out the needy from the wealthy beggars is a distinct issue online, and why many people, even if they are normally giving, will refuse to give charitably to people they've only met online.

While hobby forum's are a very different animal than other types of forums and have a tendency to be much closer knitted groups of individuals, the problems of giving to people online are real. It's better as a result to give a little closer to home - especially when it's items like a vehicle and not directly related to the hobby itself.
 
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Bobber

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He often tells about his career. A very good one. As an engineer (or a scientist, can't remember the exact detail on that one) working for one of the top aerospace companies in USA, having high level security clearance and also worked on smaller but high profile projects. No doubt he is highly intelligent and smart, a man with 'golden hands' everything he worked on succeeded. And his career made him quite well off financially and retired successfully, no debt with large savings and large income from investments and pension. He travels all over the world with his wife many times a year.
Well maybe he does but...maybe he doesn't. I recall years ago I had a friend that owned a gym. This guy would come in everyday, sit down and have coffee with my friend and he would tell these tall tales that he's the owner of many big business and that he's mufti millionaire. My friend asked him why then he drives this old junky car he replied with many and things aren't important to him. He was given to believe him...well I guess that's possible. Learned later another came in that knew the man. They laughed and said NO he's not rich anything. He lives in a very low rental apartment and was on welfare from the government. He liked to tell tall tales to make himself feel important.

After all, it would seem his intentions are in the wrong place and I made him out to be a hypocrite when it comes to worldly things.
Well what you did you created a scenario to him if he doesn't do this then he's that. (a hypocrite) Still wouldn't mean he would be. It's not your place or mine to put people in a position where we tell them to jump and perform and benefit me and if you don't I"m going to condemn you. While Jesus told us yes to be a blessing to people and help the poor he also said to be led by the Spirit.

 
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timewerx

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Not knowing you is reason enough. But if money and cars are that important to him, then he certainly value money a lot. There is a time to give and a time to hold back. We have to be responsible with money, not cheap, but responsible.

The bigger issue is he kept on telling everyone he doesn't value money and material things and yet he had lots of cars so something's amiss and I had to set him straight since he claims to be a Christian.
 
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tampasteve

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I had to set him straight since he claims to be a Christian.
That really wasn't your responsibility:
Matt. 7:4
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

We all have our own specs and planks, our own burdens to bear, our own sins to fight.
 
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timewerx

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Ultimately, I don’t get the post. You perceive they have more than you, including things that if you had them would make your life easier. You ask for them, they said no. That has nothing to do with them or their faith anymore than your coveting and asking for charity/gifts has to do with yours.

He keeps on telling everyone he is a Christian and doesn't value money and materials things anymore.

The best way to test someone if he really doesn't value money and material things is ask him or her to give it away. Most people don't value garbage, won't have 2nd thoughts throwing them away and when they say the don't value garbage, they truly mean it.
 
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timewerx

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Well what you did you created a scenario to him if he doesn't do this then he's that. (a hypocrite) Still wouldn't mean he would be. It's not your place or mine to put people in a position where we tell them to jump and perform and benefit me and if you don't I"m going to condemn you. While Jesus told us yes to be a blessing to people and help the poor he also said to be led by the Spirit.

I did not condemn him. I simply asked questions anyone could have made regardless of their religious beliefs.

If you don't value something, why keep it? Why not choose to give it away? Simple logical question.
 
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I drive a 2008 Chevy Cobalt & make $15/hr. What if dozens of people like me ask a rich person for a better car? Where does it end? Plus there are millions of people in more dire straits than me. I am just as called to give alms ( Matthew 6:1-4) as anyone else.
 
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timewerx

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That really wasn't your responsibility:
Matt. 7:4
How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye?

We all have our own specs and planks, our own burdens to bear, our own sins to fight.

Why stop at Matt 7:4 and leave the spec in your brother's eye?

Continue reading Matt 7:5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

:)
 
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timewerx

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I drive a 2008 Chevy Cobalt & make $15/hr. What if dozens of people like me ask a rich person for a better car? Where does it end? Plus there are millions of people in more dire straits than me. I am just as called to give alms ( Matthew 6:1-4) as anyone else.

I only make $5 per hour and drowning in my parent's debt. My income is not enough to pay for their debts. The failing car is a problem but I got way bigger problems.

So even if the guy actually said YES, I'd actually refuse the car donation. The car won't help much, we can get by with public transportation and bicycle. I simply wanted to know what's in his heart.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to test anyone here. I'm simply sharing a story. I'm not asking for help. If anyone offers any help, I'll refuse it.
 
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That reminds me of a Zen story:

Su Dongpo was an avid student of Buddhist teachings and a distinguished and mischievous poet. He was quick-witted and humorous; as a Zen Buddhism follower he was very serious and self-disciplined. He often discussed Buddhism with his good friend, Zen Master Fo Yin. The two lived across the river from one another.

Following is an interesting and famous story about him and Zen Master Fo Yin.

One day, Su Dongpo felt inspired and wrote the following poem :

"I bow my head to the heaven within heaven,
Hairline rays illuminating the universe,
The eight winds cannot move me,
Sitting still upon the purple golden lotus."

The "eight winds" in the poem referred to praise, ridicule , honor, disgrace, gain, loss, pleasure and misery – interpersonal forces of the material world that drive and influence the hearts of men. Su Dongpo was saying that he has attained a higher level of spirituality, where these forces no longer affect him.

Impressed by himself, Su Dongpo sent a servant to hand-carry this poem to Fo Yin. He was sure that his friend would be equally impressed. When Fo Yin read the poem, he immediately saw that it was both a tribute to the Buddha and a declaration of spiritual refinement. Smiling, the Zen Master wrote "fart" on the manuscript and had it returned to Su Dongpo.

Su Dongpo was expecting compliments and a seal of approval. When he saw "fart" written on the manuscript, he was shocked . He burst into anger: "How dare he insult me like this ? Why that lousy old monk ! He's got a lot of explaining to do !"

Full of indignation, he rushed out of his house and ordered a boat to ferry him to the other shore as quickly as possible. He wanted to find Fo Yin and demand an apology. However, Fo Yin’s door closed. On the door was a piece of paper, for Su Dongpo. The paper had following two lines :


The eight winds cannot move me,
One fart blows me across the river.
 
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Bobber

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I did not condemn him. I simply asked questions anyone could have made regardless of their religious beliefs.

If you don't value something, why keep it? Why not choose to give it away? Simple logical question.
Ok but you were putting him on the spot to give it to you. That comes across as being a little bit self serving don't you think. That means for him to get your address, not have the option to know your character as he would have in his own community towards another. Your question was fine....why are you keeping them but to say to me is another matter.
 
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tampasteve

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Why stop at Matt 7:4 and leave the spec in your brother's eye?

Continue reading Matt 7:5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

:)
Right, so remove your own planks before judging other people on theirs. It isn't saying to remove other people's specs for them or point them out to them. The point I am making with the scripture works with the full verse quote :)
 
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