Shame and nudity

Simply because A&E became aware of themselves and were no longer indifferent like your dog or cat appear to be. Couple that with their new knowledge of good and evil and right aware they judged themselves and were ashamed. Man of course took this a step further judging each other while trying to shame.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

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God told Moses that the priests should where long pants under their robes lest they go up to the altar of incense and expose their nakedness under their robes - before the LORD. God is the one establishing the norm for morality and decency.

Ex 28:42 And you shall make for them linen trousers to cover their nakedness; they shall reach from the waist to the thighs. 43 They shall be on Aaron and on his sons when they come into the tabernacle of meeting, or when they come near the altar to minister in the holy place, that they do not incur iniquity and die. It shall be a statute forever to him and his descendants after him.

1. God did not approve of nakedness before the LORD, the presence of the LORD.
2. God did not even approve of the garments of leaves that Adam and Eve made to cover themselves - He gave them animal skins.''

Rev 3: 17 But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.

Angels wear a robe of light --- so did Adam and Eve before the fall.

Ps 104:2
The Lord wraps himself in light as with a garment;
he stretches out the heavens like a tent

Matt 17: 2 and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him.

Luke 9:29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning. 30 Two men, Moses and Elijah, appeared in glorious splendor, talking with Jesus.

it is actually called a "garment" in Rev 1
Rev 1:13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.

Rev 19:14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.

The saints clothed in garments of light as well -- just as Christ

Rev 3:4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

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When Adam and Eve sinned they lost that robe of light - and could not appear in God's presence naked.

Gen 3:
7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves coverings.
8 And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, “Where are you?”
10 So he said, “I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.”
11 And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?”

God connects nakedness with eating from the tree
Adam states that he knows he is not supposed to appear before God naked.

In high school certain math books had answers in the back of the book but then you were supposed to 'show your work' for the problems to actually get credit for knowing the answer.

I was "told the answer" above about the robe of light as a child but never took the time to "do the math" of finding the texts in as connected a form as in my prior post until just now.

I have to say - it is very helpful to have the answer ahead of time (so then - to know what to look for) and then go looking.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

Adam and Eve were clothed in the glory of kind, like how Moses' face shown after he has been in the presence of God, so after they sinned, the glory of God departed from them and they realized that they were naked. The Hebrew word used for "naked" is very close to the word describing the serpent as "clever", so there is word play going on in regard to the issue of what makes humans different from animals as well as themes of nakedness and sacrificing an animal to provide a covering.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

Clothes were contray to God's plan for humanity? We know Christ said your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. No one is naked in heaven. In the garden you would never have the thought of naked. The moment they ate of the tree something died and was taken away. So this thinking is only now happening after the fall. Again before the fall this thought would never come to mind. Only here we put some kind of value on it if that makes sense

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

They had no material clothing, but we don't know that they weren't clothed with a soft light of glory, which glory they lost when they sinned.

Is not to become naked to be aware of self?

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

Like @timothyu said. They became self aware. They became human and found a sense of shame. Mark Twain once said, "man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to." They rose above the animal instinct and could discern good from evil. If you look at sin within Christianity it is identifiable with animal instinct:

Jde 1:10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

Have you ever screwed up so badly that you just wanted to disappear? Maybe hide under the covers or not leave the house?

I think it's something like that, personally.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

God keeps Adam and Eve from breaking the Law by making them as innocent as possible, i.e., without knowing good and bad. Satan awakened them such that now they are not innocent enough, they may feel shame when sexual desire is triggered by lust. Since then, humans cannot live in a group while being nude. Noah felt shame when his body is exposed to his son. "Nude is not allowed" back then is a conscience that unwanted sexual desire may potentially be triggered, even between close relatives such father and son. While conscience (back then) means Law written to our hearts by God.

Satan wanted humans' awareness of God's Law written in their hearts, such that by free will some of them will break it. God's original intend to Adam and Eve is the keep them from the awareness of any Law, such that they won't be able to be judged by any means, such that they are best protected.

Satan on the other hand, awaked humans such that sin becomes possible and will be 100% realized once humans are driven out of God's realm (Eden) by Law, and to live in a realm outside of God's dwelling place, where Satan is referred to as the "god of this world". In this place, Satan is confident that he can keep everyone captive to screw up God's plan of bringing humans to Heaven (the final eternity). However, it seems somehow Satan has overlooked that God would make a self-sacrifice through Jesus Christ for the redemption of humans.

Tellyontellyon said:

What was wrong with nudity?

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Depends on where you live. In florda they do not seem to think there is any problem at all with being nude.

Tellyontellyon said:

What was wrong with nudity?

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Loss of innocence like a child,
realized God would know they had sinned when he saw their nakedness,
shame at their sin. . .made fig leaves in an attempt to cover it all up.

Tellyontellyon said:

God created Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, and he created them nude... He declared his work good.

After eating from the tree of knowledge Adam and Eve felt shame at their nudity.... Why? What was wrong with nudity? Clothes were contrary to God's plan for humanity...
I don't understand why Adam and Eve decided nudity was shameful when it was God's wish for us to be nude... how can it be sin?

Click to expand...

Clare73 said:

They had no material clothing, but we don't know that they weren't clothed with a soft light of glory, which glory they lost when they sinned.

Click to expand...

timothyu said:

Is not to become naked to be aware of self?

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There is a huge theme throughout scripture, I think, referenced many different ways, related to 2 Corinthians 5: "1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life."

Remember when the children of Israel told Moses to go speak to God for them, as could not bear to be exposed to God. It is built into sinful flesh to want to be self-determining, instead of to be what is called, in New Testament terms, "in Christ". God is too much for us. And even the born-again find themselves continually reverting back to the notion that we can do what is required and that will be good enough.

CS Lewis references the same theme, concerning demons, as he notices their need to be housed, to not be "just themselves". They can't stand God, literally. We have no concept, I think, of the tenderness and care of the Spirit of God in convicting us of our sinful nature. As Psalm 130:3 suggests, our sin fully exposed would undo us
"If you, Lord, kept a record of sins,
Lord, who could stand?"

John 3:19 "...men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

The picture that comes to mind of the White Throne Judgement —"11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."— (Revelation 20), is of utter terror, of being undone.

But when we are clothed with our Heavenly Dwelling, we will find ourselves shameless, because God himself will be our home, our very life.

That is what I think.

Mark Quayle said:

There is a huge theme throughout scripture, I think, referenced many different ways, related to 2 Corinthians 5: "1 For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, 3 if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. 4 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life."
Remember when the children of Israel told Moses to go speak to God for them, as could not bear to be exposed to God. It is built into sinful flesh to want to be self-determining, instead of to be what is called, in New Testament terms, "in Christ". God is too much for us. And even the born-again find themselves continually reverting back to the notion that we can do what is required and that will be good enough.

Click to expand...

CS Lewis references the same theme, concerning demons, as he notices their need to be housed, to not be "just themselves". They can't stand God, literally.

Click to expand...

Is that because they are ashamed and want to hide? Do they have the capacity to be ashamed, or are they too confirmed in evil?
The human spirit needs to be "housed" because it was created with a "house" as part of its constitution.
Would the angelic spirits in heaven feel need for a "house," having not been created with one as part of their constitution?
How do you think this "housing" thing works with the demons?

Mark Quayle said:

We have no concept, I think, of the tenderness and care of the Spirit of God in convicting us of our sinful nature. As Psalm 130:3 suggests, our sin fully exposed would undo us
"If you, Lord, kept a record of sins,
Lord, who could stand?"

John 3:19 "...men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

The picture that comes to mind of the White Throne Judgement —"11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done."— (Revelation 20), is of utter terror, of being undone.

But when we are clothed with our Heavenly Dwelling, we will find ourselves shameless, because God himself will be our home, our very life.

That is what I think.

Click to expand...

Clare73 said:

Is that because they are ashamed and want to hide? Do they have the capacity to be ashamed, or are they too confirmed in evil?
The human spirit needs to be "housed" because it was created with a "house" as part of its constitution.
Would the angelic spirits in heaven feel need for a "house," having not been created with one as part of their constitution?
How do you think this "housing" thing works with the demons?

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For demons, I think, it isn't shame, but a simple visceral 'need' to not be confronted with holiness. They do anything they can to preserve their existence. They HAVE to lie. They cannot do truth. They cannot bear to admit to the horror they are.

As for the angels in heaven, I have no idea what their state is, unless as similar to Adam and Even before the fall, except perhaps to dress as adornment(?), or for certain purposes related to their function and service. They have nothing to be ashamed of, no need for pretense, but I speculate that in a some sense, their identity too, like ours, is found in God.

Mark Quayle said:

For demons, I think, it isn't shame, but a simple visceral 'need' to not be confronted with holiness. They do anything they can to preserve their existence. They HAVE to lie. They cannot do truth. They cannot bear to admit to the horror they are.

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That sounds right.

Do you have a sense of how that would relate to requesting to be sent into pigs?

Mark Quayle said:

As for the angels in heaven, I have no idea what their state is, unless as similar to Adam and Even before the fall, except perhaps to dress as adornment(?), or for certain purposes related to their function and service. They have nothing to be ashamed of, no need for pretense, but I speculate that in a some sense, their identity too, like ours, is found in God.

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Clare73 said:

Do you have a sense of how that would relate to requesting to be sent into pigs?

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Anything to get away from the Lord, is my guess. Plus the need to be disguised, hidden. I don't think it was the demons' plan for the pigs to drown. But even that was at some distance from him.

Nobody sued for damages?